How do you get a lot of segments in mille?

[Vicki B.]

I know how to make mille, but mine are always pretty coarse looking with 6 segments or so. Is it necessary to work with a much larger mass to make more segments, or are there some methods that enable more segments that I could do on the HH?

I use one of 2 methods - either a mold or mold on a handle (this limits the # of segments), or putting alternating stripes on a barrel at the end of a rod.

Some mille I see seem to have a more wedgelike look to them (they look like about 12 wedges or stripes.) Do I need more heat for this?

[squid]

Aren;t those just made with a mold with more divisions in it?

Like this:

http://www.griffinglass.com/optictwelvept.htm

instead of this?:

http://www.griffinglass.com/optic6ptstar.htm

[Vicki B.]

Seems as if I may need one of those. Thanks.

[squid]

welcome

[papimom]

Many of the mille constructed of intricately patterned designs are multiple segments that are torch-fused segments forming the final design.
Joan

[Vicki B.]

Papimom - do you mean to say that they are laid on the bead in segments - as in 4 separate wings for a butterfly? Or are you refering to something else.

Thanks!

[Emily]

Complicated murrine are done in many stages. You make a cane that will be one segment, pull it out smaller, and cut it into pieces of a workable length. You then take those segments, put them together, add some glass around them to fill in the gaps, and pull out the cane again.

For example, to make a daisy-type flower, you could start with a petal. All the petals on a daisy look pretty much the same, right? So why make all of them separately? Instead, make one petal-shaped cane that starts out pretty big, pull it into a long cane and cut it into sections. Make a center for your daisy, arrange petal sections around the center, fill in the gaps, and heat and pull the cane to the diameter you want. Do you want a bouquet of daisies? Take your daisy cane (that started with your petals), cut it into sections, put the sections next to each other, fill in the gaps with glass, and pull it out. Now you have one cane that's a bunch of daisies. And of course, you could make a cane that looked like a leaf, and a cane that looked like a section of stem, and add them in at some point, so you have a bouquet with daisies that have stems and leaves. You end up with one cane, and you'll cut one slice of that to put on your bead, but you made it in many stages.

Sound easy? It isn't, or at least it has more challenges to it than I've described. (I left out the bits about cracking and popping and falling off the punty rod, and making sure not to put your components on upside down, and if you're doing a face, trying to get the eyes more or less level . . . like I said, challenges.)

[Vicki B.]

I'm one of those people who worked with fimo for quite a few years, but the hot glass is another thing......

My original question really was more simple. I wondered how folks get, say 12divisions in wheel shaped mille. I think it probably is the use of a multisegmented mold, and maybe using different methods.

I noticed, after I started this thread, that one of the books - I think Jim Kervin's- shows making the center of the murrini with at least one encasement layer before pressing in the mold. I realized that the detailing between the segments would be more discrete than just laying on stripes of two colors like I've been doing. Those tend to spread out more. I'll try some different things this week with the layered centers.

[evolvingBeau]

If you're talking basic "starburst" murrini then the larger the diameter of the initial gather the more lines/segments you can fit. You don't really need a mold for this type of murrini.
If you want to go bigger than 1 1/2 times the diameter of the rod with the base gather then you'll generally need to build it on a boro punty to keep it from flopping around.

Try making up about 1/2" diameter x 3/4" long solid cylinder of the base color (say black), then lay on thin stringers of white to divide it into fourths then eighths and maybe sixteenths. If you need room for more segments then start bigger.
Heat up the whole thing to melt in the lines then pull it down.
Experiment with stringer thickness and base diameter to get the segments defined how you want.

[Vicki B.]

Yes, I've been lazy about using the boro and usually use an old mandrel (Thanks, Kim A.) because I'm more secure with that method, but I'm sure a wider join would probably help with this.

[Frit Diva]

Vicki you can also use a mandrel and then build a soft glass or boro disk onto the end of the mandrel before you start building the murrini cane. You can put a pretty good-sized disk of glass onto the mandrel and still have the "security" of a metal handle.

[Vicki B.]

AHH- now why didn't I think of that - probably not the boro with the HH, but maybe BE...Thanks!

[Jackie]

I am of the same school as Emiko. But if you are just talking about segments, make a large gather, roll to a cylinder (best to use a boro punty), then take you exacto blade and cut divisions into the gather, push on swipes of a second color into these cut areas. Usually 2 or 3 times. By doing the cutting you get a smaller center core.

A second way is to start with a center core. Swipe on color bars around the core. Then using color B swipe on color bars between the original color A. Keep doing this to get as big a diameter as you want. This is a great way to get varigated color - like for a flower petal.

I left the part out about pulling it into a cane but you get the point. I don't use a hothead though so I don't know how much you can do. I'm on a star fire.

[Vicki B.]

Hadn't thought of cutting with an exacto blade either. Knew you guys would come up with things I haven't tried - might be more feasible on the HH. Thanks!

[Emily]

If you're cutting, you need to keep an eye out for trapping air bubbles. Make sure your striping glass is hot and apply it with some pressure.

[Vicki B.]

May try some today. I usually stripe with a stringer, but maybe i should be using a heavier stringer or rod. My mille are so primitive, I probably wouldn't know if air was trapped in them.

[Emily]

If they crack or pop when you're warming them, you might have trapped air.

It's just something to think about when you're making the cane. you can also try heating the stripe from the middle and moving the flame gradually from the middle to the end of the cane. As the glass melts, it will chase the air bubble to the end, and with luck, right out of the glass. If not, at least maybe you'll get the air bubbles in the dogbone ends that stay on your punties when you pull.

You can add stripes of clear, or the base color, between colored stripes to keep the stripes from spreading and getting too wide.