Can't get beads off mandrel -- very frustrated!

vickgould · #1 2008-01-07, 4:14pm

Hello,
I'm pretty new to the lampwork thing and am still just only making basic beads. My problem is that I can't get the darned things off the mandrel. What in the world is the trick and what am I doing wrong? I have tried washing them off and I have also tried putting the metal end of the mandrel into ice water to shrink the metal. Today I had a decent time at the torch and I only got one mandrel to release the bead. I have to say that I could really get addicted to this, but trying to get the beads off is killing my hands. I use a pair of pliers on the mandrel and one of those anti-slip things from my kitchen to wrap around the bead. It's worked in the past, but today, I can't get anything off. If you have any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it.

aleacim · #2 2008-01-07, 4:42pm

Are you useing bead release?

bubblebabeuk · #3 2008-01-07, 4:43pm

ummm soak it a while then try again? maybe overnight!
I take mine outta the kiln, dump them in a vase of water, crunch off the exposed bead release (its kinda theraputic), dump them back in the water again, then to get them off, I dont use pliers as I couldn't get a good enough grip so I use adjustable mole grips! maybe thats a thought, also I grip the bead with non-slip stuff or a damp dish cloth.
I vaguely recall being told to try putting them in the freezer, or tapping the mandrel end on to vibrate the bead release loose. alternatively your gonna have one pretty pot stick aren't you!

Karen Hardy · #4 2008-01-07, 4:44pm

Sounds like an obvious question - along the same lines as "is it plugged in",
but are you USING any bead release on the mandrels?

If you are, then you might consider double dipping the mandrels to
help it slip off easier. If that still doesn't work, maybe try a different
brand.

It's really not rocket science (I promise you!) just some bead releases
work better for some people, and others work better for other people.
I'm a Fusion gal myself. I use it for Boro and soft glass. works great!

Karen Hardy · #5 2008-01-07, 4:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleacim

Are you useing bead release?

HA! We posted at the same time! Great minds think alike!

bubblebabeuk · #6 2008-01-07, 4:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by aleacim

Are you useing bead release?

PMSL I so wanted to ask that!

LOL but assumed since the beads don't normally stick that she must be?

bubblebabeuk · #7 2008-01-07, 4:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by vickgould

I use a pair of pliers on the mandrel and one of those anti-slip things from my kitchen to wrap around the bead. It's worked in the past, but today, I can't get anything off.

vickgould · #8 2008-01-07, 5:45pm

LOL! YES, I'm using bead release and I have double dipped. But... yes, I'm still a beginner. I got a good chuckle. Anyway, I was wondering if maybe I heated the mandrel itself too much? Would that do it?

I don't have a kiln, so I have a friend batch anneal them for me after I take them off. I'm about to go out and pound them on concrete. But I actually have some I want to keep (how ironic, isn't it?)

Hayley · #9 2008-01-07, 5:47pm

What brand of bead release are you using? Some are better than others . . . some need to be cracked before putting in water (as in twisting the bead to loosen it from the mandrel before soaking).

Also - get yourself a pair of vice grip, the kind that locks the grip, much better than plier.

Welcome to our addiction!

vickgould · #10 2008-01-07, 5:52pm

It's called Bead Separator by Fusion Products International and came with my Hot Head Torch Beginner Kit.

firegoddess41 · #11 2008-01-07, 5:59pm

Soak them (your mandrel and bead) in vinegar overnight. Rinse them off really good and you may be able to get it them. This is always my last ditch effort.

Good Luck!

Mary

Hayley · #12 2008-01-07, 5:59pm

I haven't used Fusion but understand that others do use it on this forum. Hopefully someone who has will post.

Hayley · #13 2008-01-07, 6:00pm

If you are new to lampworking, you are probably making normal size beads . . . they really ought to come off the mandrel easily.

vickgould · #14 2008-01-07, 6:06pm

Thanks. I'll try the vinegar.... and hold my nose.

vickgould · #15 2008-01-07, 6:07pm

I would think they should come off easily too. Maybe I will try triple dipping in the bead separator tomorrow and see what happens.

evvybuns · #16 2008-01-07, 6:13pm

I've started using Bead Separator again after using Bucket of Mud and am very pleased with it. I recently got some new mandrels and used them yesterday. The beads which have come off the new mandrels came off kicking and screaming. After my first try, I had the stubborn ones soak in distilled white vinegar for a couple of hours.

I think the problem is related to new mandrels, even though I had roughed them up with steel wool before applying the bead release.

ROC · #17 2008-01-07, 6:16pm

Yep, yep and yep. The freezer trick worked well on some large beads that wanted to stick (30-35 mm long) AND then I grabbed that mandrel with the channel-lock (sp) pliers and twisted while I did the karate yell. Finally worked!

KEW · #18 2008-01-07, 6:17pm

Well, I'm a Fusion beadmaker myself and it happens.

Did the release crack inside the bead while you were working on it? That can sometimes make for pot stickers or tossed beads.
Stupid question, but you are twisting the bead as you are trying to pull it off?
Another stupid question, but you aren't being a mite too gentle, trying not to bend the mandrel, are you? Mandrels are pretty much disposable in beadmaking, expecially in the beginning.

I soak them for a while before I try to pull them off. Someone suggested a few weeks ago that you take them outside and tap the mandrel on concrete to break the release. Haven't tried it myself, but it does make sense.

My second to the last resort is the freezer - and sometimes (believe it or not) it can take a few weeks. In, then another try, then back in.

My last resort is asking my DH to pull off the frozen bead.

vickgould · #19 2008-01-07, 6:29pm

I may be being too gentle, but that's all I can do. (Actually, I have quite strong hands from playing the piano for hours upon hours when I was younger.) I definitely don't bend the mandrels though!

I think I'll try the vinegar overnight today and then the freezer tomorrow. My DH already tried to get one off and couldn't.

BTW, my concrete comment was just a joke before, but if it works maybe that'll be my last ditch effort if I can't get them off because by that point, if they break, then I'm no worse off.

vickgould · #20 2008-01-07, 6:31pm

I do think that the mandrels may have something to do with it, but I did notice that the time I got the beads to come off, the bead release cracked off pretty easily. Today, I've had to scrub off the bead release. That's why I'm thinking that maybe I heated up the mandrel too much and that the bead release is stuck to the manrel.

lenora · #21 2008-01-07, 6:38pm

I had a really hard time getting my beads off the mandrel a while back. I thinned out my bead release, and they came off much easier. Part of it was just the brand of bead release (sludge plus). Then I tried Smooth and Tuff, and the beads came off too easy. They were coming off the mandrel while I was still working on the bead! So I mixed the two, and now I have the perfect bead release for me.

villa design · #22 2008-01-07, 6:41pm

I've also soaked stuck beads in olive oil. It's worked every time.

BeadMaven · #23 2008-01-07, 7:13pm

This may sound funny but of its not the bead release...are you using mandrels that came in a beginner kit?

Be sure you are using stainless steel mandrels....anything else and the beads are on there for ever....plant sticks! lol

Ask me how I know

Carolyn M · #24 2008-01-07, 9:29pm

Do you have access to a bench mounted vise? If so, put two pieces of scrap wood in, put your mandrels in between and tighten. This gives you a rock hard grip on the mandrel. Then wiggle those beads off. This is how I've been doung it since I started, and I've never had a bead stick. BTW, I always use a thin layer of bead release, it comes off more easily.

Rachel · #25 2008-01-07, 11:54pm

I use a pair of vice grips that can lock on the end of the mandrel and twist off the beads that come easily. For beads that give me a harder time, I grab them with an old wash rag that is dry or any kind of cloth and something magical happens and it removes even the toughest of beads. there is magic in that old wash rag. I don't know why but this works for me. I have the most trouble with long tube beads that are thin on 3/32 mandrels and such. I also put a dryer sheet in the water I am soaking them in. That helps sometimes too. And if it just won't come off, it gets tossed.

Good luck!

Tink · #26 2008-01-08, 12:38am

Holy moley. Reading through what so many people do to get their beads off the mandrels is amazing! I confess, if I'd ever had to soak them or pound them or use a vise on them I probably would have given up the art form years ago. LOL!

Are you guys really having that much trouble taking your beads off the mandrels? Is it every bead that's this way or just a random rogue bead occasionally?

bubblebabeuk · #27 2008-01-08, 1:06am

yeah I twist the bead back and forth, to help break the bead release under it! I used to try and twist the bead on the mandrel all the way around but it didnt work any where near as well! I use fusion too! sticking beads only happens to me when my bead release is too thick, so it may well need thinning out with water to the correct consitency!

bubblebabeuk · #28 2008-01-08, 1:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tink

Are you guys really having that much trouble taking your beads off the mandrels? Is it every bead that's this way or just a random rogue bead occasionally?

Just random ones!

vickgould · #29 2008-01-08, 5:30am

I have to say my DH's vice grips stink! The grips don't lay flat with each other -- what good is that? I think he got ripped off. I will try the bench vise next, but I have the mandrels right now in the freezer. I soaked them overnight in vinegar and thought some magic would happen this morning, but no such luck. Bummer deal. I have one bead that I don't really care about, and I went out and banged it on the concrete in the garage and it did NOTHING. Guess this is my last ditch effort before I have to admit to myself that they're toast.

Terreverte · #30 2008-01-08, 8:11am

Sometimes the bead release cracks under the bead and the glass gets stuck permanently on the mandrel. (Plant sticks!) Also, if the madrel is bent and the bead is a long focal, it won't come off in one piece.

An overnight soak and pliers work 98% of the time for me, I use a combo of Bucket of Mug and Sludge+. I just recently learned a trick here at lampwork etc, that seems to work well for most the stuborn ones. If you hold the mandrel vertical with the bead at the bottom, then use gravity to bounce the mandrel end several times on something hard (like concrete). Seems silly, but it vibrates the bead release loose and allows the bead to be coaxed off. Good Luck!