What do i NEED - Page 2

J2Creations · #31 2012-04-12, 5:59pm

Pat does one gas burn cleaner than the other?
Also from what I have on my list the most important but also one of the most expensive items are the Didymium glasses, can use regular tinted safety glasses instead for starters?

Role · #32 2012-04-12, 6:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2Creations

Pat does one gas burn cleaner than the other?
Also from what I have on my list the most important but also one of the most expensive items are the Didymium glasses, can use regular tinted safety glasses instead for starters?

My opinions,

On a Hot Head type torch the flare is tolerable with sunglasses.

For a while.

But you really need Diddys for the long run.

Sundance has Didymiums as low as $42.00 and fit-overs (if you wear
prescription glasses) for $59.00.

On my O2/Fuel torch I have to wear Shade 3 + Didymium because
my eyes cannot tolerate the intensity of the candles.

On Fuel gasses, for a Hot Head:

Map/Pro (Propylene) in the little yellow canisters is the cleanest but
most expensive at $8-$9 per 1lb can in my area.

Propane is much cheaper but the "sweet spot" (the place in the
flame where you can melt glass without soot or reduction) is, IMO,
much smaller.

Bulk Propylene (AirGas Inc) is really dirty and does not burn with the
same quality as the 1lb Bernz-o-matic yellow canisters.

essiemessy · #33 2012-04-12, 6:22pm

My 2c worth re propane/propylene (MAPP) is that propylene totally rocks, compared to propane.
I can get silver glass to strike on propylene, and clear is much cleaner worked on my HH with it.
But it's prohibitively expensive in Australia

NeenaG · #34 2012-04-12, 6:31pm

I would recommend getting a leather welding apron at Harbor Freight. It looks like orange suede and only costs $9.99. It has saved my as---er--lap several times. I wear my husband's long sleeved chambray shirt over my regular clothes and put the apron on over top.

Vicki

J2Creations · #35 2012-04-12, 6:37pm

Perfect ok so I'll buy some propane to start and when I get better I'll shell out for MAPP.
I do have light sensitive eyes (awesome night vision though) so I will definitely get the didymiums but it might have to wait a week or two

I'll need small ones though and all I see online are large and one or two medium. Hmmm time to shop around me thinks.

steiconi · #36 2012-04-13, 12:24am

You might want to get both propane and MAPP--you can switch back and forth.

Incidentally, you can't trust everything you read here. People post what they believe or remember in the best of faith, but it isn't always correct. For instance, earlier in this thread I said Diddys aren't really needed for soft glass, but the real story I've heard is that they aren't essential on a Hot Head. Soft glass on a two-fuel torch needs the Diddys.

Lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2Creations

Perfect ok so I'll buy some propane to start and when I get better I'll shell out for MAPP.
I do have light sensitive eyes (awesome night vision though) so I will definitely get the didymiums but it might have to wait a week or two

I'll need small ones though and all I see online are large and one or two medium. Hmmm time to shop around me thinks.

J2Creations · #37 2012-04-13, 9:10am

Thanks Lee, i do try to compare what everybody says and try to land somewhere in the middle

I went to harbour freight today and got some tinted safety glasses, leather apron with gloves, a set of dentists picks and a set of tweezers

not bad for $30 i thought.

Somebody mentioned using marble for marving, i'v always found that marble is very cold (they used to use it to keep the dairy products fresh before refridgeration was invented) wouldn't it shock the glass if i marver with it?

Eileen · #38 2012-04-13, 9:40am

That (marble) was me repeating something someone else told me, and as I said, I can't vouch for it because I don't have any to try. I have used brass though to cool my beads quickly.

Let us know what you think about the tinted safety glasses. I was always under the impression that they would not remove the flare, but I'll be interested to hear what you think.

houptdavid · #39 2012-04-13, 6:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eileen

On the crock pot, I was told on another thread within the past week that the crock pot doesn't heat it high enough to make any difference.

/\ This

Vermiculite is an insulation, the crock pot gets about 205f

Eileen · #40 2012-04-13, 6:14pm

I am going to test mine with a thermometer one day, because it does feel quite hot.

silverlilly1 · #41 2012-04-13, 8:04pm

If the surface around the vermiculite, aka the crock pot, is warmer than room temperature, it will slow down the cooling of the beads because heat transfer OUT of the vermiculite into the surrounding air will be slower than with vermiculite in a cooler container.

Using a crock pot won't necessarily reduce any thermal shock from putting the bead into the vermiculite. As someone pointed out on another thread, vermiculite is an insulator, so the crock pot heat may not reach the beads moving INWARD.

steiconi · #42 2012-04-13, 9:34pm

I use a crockpot, and the vermiculite heats remarkably FAST, and gets hot enough to make me pull my fingers out pretty quick. No, it's not the same as a kiln, but way better than fiber blanket.
Lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverlilly1

If the surface around the vermiculite, aka the crock pot, is warmer than room temperature, it will slow down the cooling of the beads because heat transfer OUT of the vermiculite into the surrounding air will be slower than with vermiculite in a cooler container.

Using a crock pot won't necessarily reduce any thermal shock from putting the bead into the vermiculite. As someone pointed out on another thread, vermiculite is an insulator, so the crock pot heat may not reach the beads moving INWARD.

Dragonharper · #43 2012-04-14, 4:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eileen

I am going to test mine with a thermometer one day, because it does feel quite hot.

205 degrees is very hot, hot enough to cook you, ever cook chicken in a pot of water?

silverlilly1 · #44 2012-04-14, 9:48pm

Lee, I think we're saying close enough to the same thing...

If the bead cools down more slowly, less stress induced while cooling. Thus, crock pot still good, despite comments I have seen on this site to the contrary.

Personally, I use a fiber blanket. Up until I started trying to encase silver glass with lauscha clear, my breakage rate was incredibly low, I think, considering they were my first beads ever. Maybe 5 in 150 beads. Upgrading to kiln as soon as we can get a wire run to the garage for a 20A plug. Currently threading it through a finished ceiling from the crawl space, through the bathroom, across the hall, and around the laundry room. Not quick work.

PerfectDeb · #45 2012-04-14, 10:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverlilly1

Lee, I think we're saying close enough to the same thing...

If the bead cools down more slowly, less stress induced while cooling. Thus, crock pot still good, despite comments I have seen on this site to the contrary.

Personally, I use a fiber blanket. Up until I started trying to encase silver glass with lauscha clear, my breakage rate was incredibly low, I think, considering they were my first beads ever. Maybe 5 in 150 beads. Upgrading to kiln as soon as we can get a wire run to the garage for a 20A plug. Currently threading it through a finished ceiling from the crawl space, through the bathroom, across the hall, and around the laundry room. Not quick work.

Just remember while the beads may not crack because they've been cooled a bit slower, they're still not annealed - you still have to batch anneal them and you really can't make anything really big, and you shouldn't sell them if they're not annealed

Holly · #46 2012-04-15, 1:55am

I learned most of what I know from Cindy Jenkins' books and forums like this one.
For almost ten years I've used the following:
Hot Head
Propane (1# tanks to start, now using bulk tanks)
Stainless pointed tweezers
Bent pick from my original Hot head kit
Flexible pottery spatula
Flat graphite larger

I now also have various graphite marvers from Arrow Springs but you really need very little in the way of tools to get started.
Have fun!

J2Creations · #47 2012-04-15, 5:01pm

Thanks holly, I'll definitely check out that author and yes I love these forums and you tube too

can't wait to get started, I'm slowly gathering my tools

houptdavid · #48 2012-04-15, 6:05pm

The stress in the glass is going to happen WAY before the temperature of the crock pot

J2Creations · #49 2012-04-20, 5:41am

but will the crock help if i'm not going to anneal ? (i'm not going to sell my beads yet)

Also a quick Q about fiber blankets, the thicker the better?
it's the next thing on my shopping list, after this i just need my torch and gas

bepnewt · #50 2012-04-20, 7:56am

Firstly, thanks for making this thread. It's timely.

Secondly...

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfectDeb

Buy black, white, ivory and some basic colours, periwinkle, red, pea green and clear in effetre or CiM

Along with the basic colours to start with, if there were just one "fun" thing to get at the start, whether it be a color, a frit, foil, or a special type of glass, etc., what would it be?

I'm making my list, too, Joy.
-BEP

rdbeads · #51 2012-04-20, 8:32am

For fun, I would probably say a Double Helix glass. Personally, Psyche or Triton because they are quite easy to strike. There is so much you can do with them that the fun is endless.

Eileen · #52 2012-04-20, 8:53am

Or frit, because it's easy, just roll the hot bead in it & melt it in. Or murrini is fun too.

J2Creations · #53 2012-04-20, 9:33am

o i have a question about frit, i read somewhere about using 96 frit with a 104 base. How does that work do i need to follow any special steps?

Eileen · #54 2012-04-20, 9:45am

I've read both that you can and that you shouldn't use the 96 frit with 104 base. Several people said they use it with no problems, but they keep it to a very small % of the total bead (like 5%).
I think it was universal that you should not use the 104 frit on the 96 base though.

Cherylka · #55 2012-04-20, 10:42am

clearaceit.com has didymiums for $32.

Eileen · #56 2012-04-20, 12:42pm

I have those for a spare pair for guests, and they don't fit over prescription glasses. They're also not very big if you have a wide face, but the price is good.

2tumblingdragonz · #57 2012-04-20, 12:58pm

lots of patience and a sense of humour. A couple of good books and watching you tube videos.

and some more patience.

and don't be afraid to ask.

welcome!

namaste
Rowyn

BrownGirl · #58 2012-04-21, 2:22am

There is some great info on this site. Everyone has their own opinions on what works, what sucks and what you should use. I have found that, as you read, you'll find people who post in a style that kinda speaks to you and you kinda start following their advice the most. I found myself doing that and.... To this day, when I have an issue, I go to that person for advice or look for their posts on certain topics of interest to me.

You should also know (and I can see you have already gathered as much) the people on this board tend to be impossibly kind and selflessly generous. They are accepting & supportive and like no other group of people you will meet in real life or online. We also have long & clear memories. LOL! You screw anyone over and our time here will never be the same. And... there are people here who can find out almost anything about anyone. It's kinda crazy but good.

Now that i have said all that...

Fun stuff you should get? FRIT! There are some serious junkies here. I know a few

Frit is awesome & can be had for a good price on some sites and in he garage sale. If you PM menyour address (OP), I'll send you a bunch of samples. I'm a good sharing girl.

If there is one tool I was glad I plurged on it's a graphite marver. I also have several brass marvers but, graphite ones can be had relatively inexpensively and if you are good to it, it will last forever.

Spoons for frit. Just take an old one from your kitchen drawer.

If I am only making test beads and don't want to turn in my kiln, I cool them in a fiber blanket lined cookie tin. I like it and have never had a problem. Just don't put them in glowing and don't stare at your masterpiece too long before tucking them in.

Cover your chest. Cover your chest. Cover your chest. I have some lovely scars on my chest.

Some people love Devardi glass & they do have some lovely colors. If you start with that glass, you'll wast more than you use because it just explodes. Evey color I have ever used has become table frit. There are some people on this board that do LOVELY work with their Devardi glass. I still can't bring myself to use it. It's been so who my for me.

Lastly, don't let glass be the boss of you! (thank you for that saying MaryBeth)

Have fun and don't let your eyes get bigger than your wallet.

steiconi · #59 2012-04-21, 2:44am

Yes. The crock pot slows down the cooling so the beads don't crack.
You don't need both a crock pot AND fiber blankets.

I have both, never use the blankies. I find the crockpot so much easier to use; just stab the bead down into the vermiculite. With the blanket, you have to lift it enough to add a bead, but not so much that you chill the earlier beads.

The more beads you add to the crock pot, the warmer it gets as it absorbs the heat the beads are giving off. So it's not a bad idea to start your session with some small beads, working up to larger beads. I've been having good luck with tab beads up to about 1-1/2". The only one that cracked was the one I made with a base of alabastro. Gorgeous bead, took over an hour to make. I gave away all my alabastro after that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2Creations

but will the crock help if i'm not going to anneal ? (i'm not going to sell my beads yet)

Also a quick Q about fiber blankets, the thicker the better?
it's the next thing on my shopping list, after this i just need my torch and gas

Dragonharper · #60 2012-04-21, 3:09am

Also save some of your money for a weekend class or two. Classes are a great way to learn and you learn as much from the other students as you do from the instructor, well maybe not in absolute beginner classes.