BBQ tanks and cold

kahlamodie · #1 2006-11-27, 8:01am

I`m sure this is talked about somewhere, but I`m asking anyway. I`m a beginner, and have yet to make my first beads outside of class. I`m planning on getting started this week, and was going to pick up some MAPP bottles today. I have read alot about how they freeze up and are generally more trouble than they are worth. I have considered getting a BBQ tank and running a hose from it to my HH torch. I am going to be torching in the garage (which is connected to the house) so I would put the tank outside on the side of the garage and probably leave it there. My question is, how will cold in the winter affect the tank? We don`t have a shed of any kind to keep it in, so it would be exposed to the elements. I could keep it covered with a tarp of some sort to keep ice and snow off of it, but that`s about the limit to my "storage". Would someone tell me if this is acceptable, and also, in the summer, same thing would apply....is it dangerous to let the tank sit out in the hot sun? By the way, my hubby and I don`t own a BBQ grill, never have, so I`m not familiar with propane at all. I know it sounds pretty dumb, but I REALLY don`t want to blow anything up, LOL!!!

Cosmo · #2 2006-11-27, 8:03am

How cold is cold?

What a lot of people do is take a Rubbermaid container, put some insulation in it, and put the tank in that. Then cut a hole in the side to run the hose out of and to serve as a vent.

kahlamodie · #3 2006-11-27, 8:23am

Now that you mention that, I do think I read that somewhere on here. So that leads me to yet another dumb question...Do you keep the lid on the Rubbermaid container and cut another hole near the bottom in case the tank leaks, so it has ventilation, or do you not even put the lid on and just cover the top loosely with tarp? (hey, if these questions aren`t dumb enough, I`m sure I can come up with more!)

Cosmo · #4 2006-11-27, 8:26am

I keep the top on just to keep the tank safe from the weather. I also lock the lid on mine just so nobody messes with it. I've never had a problem, but just in case. The vent doesn't need to be at the bottom. Propane would escape as gas, so placing the hole anywhere would be fine.

Dale M. · #5 2006-11-27, 9:04am

A few facts... As tank cools, (cooler weather) the pressure of the propane will go down....

At about 70 degrees pressure is about 110psi
At 60 degrees its 93psi
At 50 degrees its 78 psi.
At 40 degrees its 65 psi...

Below 65psi or so, HH will not function very well and its time to curl up by fireplace and drink hot chocolate... Tank is to be outside ALWAYS, no matter how tempting it is to bring it inside to warm it up...

You can put tank in any sort of enclosure to help keep it warm in winter, or just leave it outside (in shade) during summer... Keep in mind that there are thousands of tanks sitting out in coldest of the cold or hotest of the hot weather without any protection and they do just fine...

Any enclosure (Rubbermaind) needs "drain" holes for ventilation... LPG is heavier than air and if it leaks it will collect in bottom of container causing possible explosion hazard, so a few 1 inch hole in lower portion is desirable...

IF you are using long hose on HH and propane tank, be absolutely sure you turn off tank when done, burn off fuel in hose and disconnect hose when done... Other wise if hose or torch valve leaks it will fill garage with gas and again there is a explosion hazard....

http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html
http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

With a little knowledge and common sense it is a safe way to torch....

Dale

kahlamodie · #6 2006-11-27, 10:31am

Any risk of explosion scares the living CRAP outta me,(I had a brother growing up who would light firecrackers, sneak up behind me, and place them right next to me and laugh like crazy when they would go off) that`s why I wanna be sure to do it as safely as possible. I won`t even store the hose in the garage, I`d put it outside with the tank, but thanks for the tip about burning off the extra gas in the hose. Alot of good info in the links you posted, also. Thanks, Dale.

Keltik · #7 2006-11-28, 8:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

I keep the top on just to keep the tank safe from the weather. I also lock the lid on mine just so nobody messes with it. I've never had a problem, but just in case. The vent doesn't need to be at the bottom. Propane would escape as gas, so placing the hole anywhere would be fine.

Sorry Chad but as far as I know Propaone is a heavier than air gas and will pool at the lowest point, placing the vent at the lowest point IS the best way to go.

Dave

Hayley · #8 2006-11-28, 11:01pm

I have read somewhere that the HotHead is not made to be used with a bulk BBQ tank and is more dangerous doing so since there is not regulator or arrestor hooked up with it. That's why I continued to use the 1# MAPP canisters until upgrading to a Bobcat (in the process of doing so!) even tho I hate not being able to recycle the empty canisters.

I learned to keep the canister from freezing by putting the canister in warm water . . . make a "bucket" out of large yogurt container - poke two holes close to the rim and hook a handle made out of wire hanger, fill the container with warm water and put the canister in the bucket with the handle hanging off the C-Clamp.

kahlamodie · #9 2006-11-29, 7:01am

That`s a good idea, hht, when I run into that problem, I`m going to give it a try.

MikeAurelius · #10 2006-11-29, 7:15am

You can also create a "water jacket" by taking some soft wall copper tubing and wrapping consecutive coils around the tank, then plumbing it to a hot water line and a drain. Turn the water on about 15 minutes or so before you begin.

When the tank empties out, simply move the water jacket to a new tank.

Alternately, you could use a pump and hot water in a bucket, and recharge the hot water from time to time.

This is just the reverse of using a cooling system for some of the very large carlisle torches, which use cold water in a tank with a pump. The principle is the same. Heat exchange........

SuzyQ · #11 2006-12-01, 5:33am

I torch in the Winter with a BBQ tank outside. I just put a lean too of plywood over the tank and leaning against the house. My valves stay accessable and clear from snow and ice, I still have plenty of ventilation and it also helps keep the North winds from blowing into my window. Easy, schmeesy.
I'm sure the pressure goes down on the tank but I have no trouble torching in weather down to the single digits. Never tried any colder because a window open with that temperature is too cold for me.