EX-15 / M-15 Review on a Nortel Red Max

TheNovice · #1 2010-05-21, 6:02pm

This is my review of the EX-15 by Extreme Oxygen used on a Nortel Red Max. The same unit from Unlimited is called the M-15.

I started lampworking in April this year. Never tried it before, had no idea what to do. Mountain Glass Arts (who kicks ass, by the way) was an hour away so I drove there and they showed me the ropes. $3200 later, I had *everything* I needed including kiln, torch, one of almost every tool, almost every color, and almost all the tubing I could need. Now all I needed was something to make the torch get hot, particularly oxygen and propane.

Propane was easy. $45. Solved. The Oxygen tanks however, were $200 each delivered full the first time, then $20 a tank and a 3-5 day wait for refills. The refill price wasnt a problem, the problem was being able to time a tanks usage to the delivery mans time. I then researched liquid oxygen tank, and after the refill and tank cost, determined that was a failure. Then oxygen generators. The Hurricane and Psyclone and whatnot sounded nice, but had too many mechanical issues and life-span issues for me to risk the unit failing with horror stories of tanking months for a replacement. Mountain Glass Arts suggested I look into the ones Extreme and Unlimited sell, and daisy chain them. That brought me to the EX-15 through ABR/Ross/Caleb. Purchased (3) EX-15's that were "scratch and dents". There's no scratches or dents on mine other than a tiny one that I can see. Good as new here! (2) units would probably be enough for me, and (3) to ensure I could work thicker glass. I dont really think I'll use over 50mmx4mm boro, so my Nortel Red Max being the higher end of a torch that these concentrators can run, I figured if it was time to work bigger glass then I'd need a torch upgrade too, and that'll be a loooooong way down the road. (Watch, it'll be a month lol).

ABR had the units in stock, and custom fit an oxygen hose to each unit then to my torch specifically. Thanks! Connecting them was easy, put a filter on a hole and then connect the oxygen and power. Turn on, done. There is an adjustable flow knob on each unit, which is set to 8. The units when turned on all work on a 15amp household circuit just fine, however the kiln now needs an extension cord.

They start pumping oxygen through the Red Max at the concentrators full capacity within about 30 seconds. They are quiet as a little hum in the room. The ventilation fan is louder than three of these at the same time.

Power-wise, the top torch of the Red Max is full blast, no question about it. The bottom extends about a 14-18" lightsaber when at full power. A new friend I met, said the Red Max on full will power further out, but then again, he ran it at 35psi. Mine is 15psi, so a bit of a difference would be normal in my eyes. But, for up to 50mmx4mm work that I need, its perfect and plenty.

The advantage to three of these units is that if one fails, I have two more that work still. The disadvantage of course is the space requirement of 3 units (I just put them under a 6' plastic table which holds glass above it, easy!) and that 3 units will use more electricity than one unit that spits out the same power. Its only a difference of 200-300 watts, so that's not a terribly big deal. I'll switch my light bulbs to flourescent bulbs from Wal-Mart instead and call it a day.

My camera is dead, so there are no photos, but there arent really needed. It just works.

Overall, I have no complaints at all. Its perfect for my setup, and perfect for my needs. I write this review because it took me about 2 weeks of research to find what worked on a Red Max and what wouldnt. I hope this helps someone in the future.

Seasoned Soul · #2 2010-05-21, 10:38pm

I have an Ex-15 and this is good info to have in case I ever upgrade my torch.

TheNovice · #3 2010-05-21, 11:54pm

I also found the owners manual to be very difficult to find: Here's the version from a vendor of the EX-15/M-15's:

1 - Attach the oxygen hose coming from your torch to your concnetrator/generator. You will not need an oxygen regulator.
2 - Attach the propane hose coming from your torch to the propane regulator that is already on your tank.
3 - Open the oxygen valve on your torch.
4 - Plug your concentrator/generator in.
5 - Turn your concentrator/generator on.
6 - Adjust your concnetrator/generator flow until the float ball is just below the top line. This will give you better oxygen purity. The float ball should stay at or near the position you set it while working.
7 - Let your concentrator/generator run for 10-15 minutes before you begin working.
8 - Close the oxygen valve on your torch just long enough to light your propane then re-open the valve and adjust your falme. 9 - DO NOT turn your concentrator/generator off if you are just taking a short break. It is best to turn off your torch and crack the oxygen valve open and let the concnetrator/generator run if you will be away from the torch for only a short while. Turning your concnetrator/generator off and on for short periods of time increases the possibility of damaging the seive beds.
10 - When you are through for the day, turn off your torch and open the oxygen valve. Turn off your concentrator/generator and allow the hose to bleed through the torch.

Salado Flameworks · #4 2010-05-22, 7:34am

Are you running all three EX-15s at once? If you are, I'm suprised it isn't tripping your breaker - good to know (I have a Red Max and one EX-15 that I have been using for my Mini CC.)

Peg

TheNovice · #5 2010-05-22, 9:49am

I am running all (3) EX-15's along with my ventilation fans and lighting off of one 15amp circuit breaker, yes. The Kiln (Paragon Blue Bird XL) wont fire on the same circuit, so I'll either add another wall outlet on its own circuit or just swap the circuit breaker to 20amps. I dont think 20amps will be enough though, which is why I'll probably prefer to just run the cable real fast.

Cheers

Diane (clarus) · #6 2010-05-22, 10:04am

I have 15 amps for two 5LPM concentrators (5 amps each), a Vortex blower for my ventilation, light, crock pot, and iPod/speakers. If I turn on anything else it blows the circuit. Needless to day my kiln is in another room - that needs at least 15 amps alone, plus the controller. Someday when it's in the budget we'll upgrade that line.

-Diane

TheNovice · #7 2010-05-23, 11:07am

Camera works now. Here's a couple pictures...... For more pictures of my studio:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh....php?p=3041450

cdmaam · #8 2010-05-26, 2:42pm

Your setup looks great! Based on yours and others reviews I ordered my ex-15from ABR too! Thanks again. But ummm what is this filter you mention - "Connecting them was easy, put a filter on a hole and then connect the oxygen and power." I didn't see any additional filters and am worried I missed something. Would you mind helping another newbie out?

TheNovice · #9 2010-05-26, 2:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdmaam

Your setup looks great! Based on yours and others reviews I ordered my ex-15from ABR too! Thanks again. But ummm what is this filter you mention - "Connecting them was easy, put a filter on a hole and then connect the oxygen and power." I didn't see any additional filters and am worried I missed something. Would you mind helping another newbie out?

Happy to! There's two filters visible. One on the left side of the machine, it's just flat and doesnt move or do anything. Ignore it for setup. On the back of the machine, there's a door. Open the door and there will be a little round filter. It looks like one of those lint rollers that you remove lint and dog hairs with on clothes. Or a paint roller, but smaller. That just sits on top of the circular opening inside that door.

If your a stoner, I'll relate it to putting the slide on a bong.

Looks like it and just as easy.

That's it!

metalbone · #10 2010-05-26, 5:58pm

looking good!

cdmaam · #11 2010-05-26, 6:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNovice

If your a stoner, I'll relate it to putting the slide on a bong.

Looks like it and just as easy.

That's it!

Thanks! I'm sure I have no idea what you're talking about.

Mary K · #12 2010-05-26, 7:57pm

"I had *everything* I needed including kiln, torch, one of almost every tool, almost every color, and almost all the tubing I could need. Now all I needed was something to make the torch get hot, particularly oxygen and propane."

Everything? Got ventilation? Your setup looks great, but no mention of ventilation.
Ventilation first, "everything" else next.

TheNovice · #13 2010-05-27, 2:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary K

Everything? Got ventilation? Your setup looks great, but no mention of ventilation.
Ventilation first, "everything" else next.

Yup! In the very first post in the thread regarding the EX-15's noise level --- """The ventilation fan is louder than three of these at the same time."""

However, its not as adequate as I'd like. I'm picking up an exhaust hood soon as I can get to town again in a few days.

Thanks for all the compliments everyone, its nice to know I'm on the right track!

TheNovice · #14 2010-06-01, 11:33am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDkhQXKY0K8

I made a 7 minute long YouTube video showing the power of one unit on, then two units on, then all three units on to show you the various flames.

Enjoy!

ChaseDesigns · #15 2010-06-01, 4:51pm

Nice looking set up. I've got a couple little items of advise if it's not too presumptuous.
1. You're going to want to keep those puppies cool, dry and well ventilated beyond your torch ventilation. They get really unhappy breathing each others exhaust. I'm not saying you need to punch a hole in the wall for them, but a little fan to keep the air moving down there might help. I actually moved mine into the next room to let them use the house air conditioning and punched the oxy line threw the wall. Made for a much cooler well ventilated studio.
2. I'd (well I did for my set up) put in an inline expansion tank. It can be as simple as a small air tank from walmart. What it does for you is give the consys something to breath into when you close and open the oxy on your torch. If the little balls fall to 0 then pop back up to 8 it gets pretty hard on the internal valves.
3. Not to freak you out, and I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure Jack makes the Hurricane, Psyclone, M15 and EX15 (same thing he just changed the name of the company as I understand it.) He's a great guy, I've had a lot of dealings with him over the years with my M20s (yea he doesn't make those anymore), but he's pretty much on his own now and gets WAY too backed up. Just breath easy and realize if there is a problem he will do the best he can, but he is just one guy. But...
4. If there is a problem and you're doing any kind of production have a back up plan. Even if its just an in with the local oxygen supply company.

Peace and have FUN!
Greg (the fix it guy to Deanna)

ChaseDesigns · #16 2010-06-01, 5:06pm

Just watched your video, you might also want to think about one way valves on each EX15 if you intend on not running them all at once so they don't back pressure into the off machine. Those damn little valves can be really sensitive. If it's Paul making the EX version he's a great guy too (Jack's brother). But the bottom line is it's still the same machine prone to the same problems. Even so I give big props to both Jack and Paul for at least trying to come up with an oxygen solution between the little 5 ltr machines and tanks!

TheNovice · #17 2010-06-01, 7:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelin'gal

Nice looking set up. I've got a couple little items of advise if it's not too presumptuous.
1. You're going to want to keep those puppies cool, dry and well ventilated beyond your torch ventilation. They get really unhappy breathing each others exhaust. I'm not saying you need to punch a hole in the wall for them, but a little fan to keep the air moving down there might help. I actually moved mine into the next room to let them use the house air conditioning and punched the oxy line threw the wall. Made for a much cooler well ventilated studio.
2. I'd (well I did for my set up) put in an inline expansion tank. It can be as simple as a small air tank from walmart. What it does for you is give the consys something to breath into when you close and open the oxy on your torch. If the little balls fall to 0 then pop back up to 8 it gets pretty hard on the internal valves.
3. Not to freak you out, and I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure Jack makes the Hurricane, Psyclone, M15 and EX15 (same thing he just changed the name of the company as I understand it.) He's a great guy, I've had a lot of dealings with him over the years with my M20s (yea he doesn't make those anymore), but he's pretty much on his own now and gets WAY too backed up. Just breath easy and realize if there is a problem he will do the best he can, but he is just one guy. But...
4. If there is a problem and you're doing any kind of production have a back up plan. Even if its just an in with the local oxygen supply company.

Peace and have FUN!
Greg (the fix it guy to Deanna)

Thanks very much for the constructive feedback!

1.) I just bought an air conditioner for the room and had it installed yesterday. It blows air into the room directly next to the EX-15's now, and doing the "wet thumb" test, you can feel the air moving to the units. That satisfies this one I hope! If not, easy $5 walmart fan fix.

2.) Sounds like a great idea. I just dont have any clue how/what to do. I'm getting better with glass, but generally not a DIY'er.

3.) Agreed! I always confuse the two. Its a weird little thing with the brothers, but as long as they make good units I'm a happy camper

4.) Got it! I have the two oxygen tanks downstairs still. Not *quite* ready or skilled for production, I think I need another week on the torch before everything is perfect every time for the pipes I'm making. One of the reasons too, that I chose the (3) EX-15's is also that if one does go kaBOOM, then I still have two that can do pretty much most of what I'd want to do still.

Will check on the one-way valves, I bet ABR can tell me about them or probably even Home Depot. That's a fantastic idea too, and even seeing the flame with one unit on, two units bleeding air back into the environment, and then the rest to the torch, they sure are very nice units.

I will say, now that I'm working with color, that the flame could be a *little* hotter, but everything still melts dandy.

ABR Dave · #18 2010-06-02, 6:53am

Extreme Oxygen Products make the EX series (5, 10, and 15) Jack is Unlimited Oxygen, he did not change the name of his company.

Extreme is Paul, not Jack. Novice...........your machines were made by Paul, and that is who the warranty is with. We do not carry the M series for various reasons.

TheNovice · #19 2010-06-02, 3:07pm

Sweet, thank for the clarification Dave!

BorosilliBeader · #20 2010-06-05, 9:52pm

That fan aimed out the window is nowhere near sufficient for lampworking. if that's all you have for ventilation you're crazy. Take back the a/c and buy a real fan.

Dasi · #21 2010-06-06, 5:03am

Are the air intakes on the sides of those units? Maybe you want to turn them and not line them up side by side. The center unit is not getting the correct airflow around the unit. I was told they need about 8-12" of air space around each unit for correct air intake, etc.

TheNovice · #22 2010-06-06, 9:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BorosilliBeader

That fan aimed out the window is nowhere near sufficient for lampworking. if that's all you have for ventilation you're crazy. Take back the a/c and buy a real fan.

The pictures show a temporary fan in place. The room now has one intake and 3 exhaust fans all of much more suitable sizes.

I dont count the A/C unit as a fan either, thats really just additional help before I start working to pre-cool the room.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dasi

Are the air intakes on the sides of those units? Maybe you want to turn them and not line them up side by side. The center unit is not getting the correct airflow around the unit. I was told they need about 8-12" of air space around each unit for correct air intake, etc.

The air intakes are behind each unit. The units are about 2" apart from each other (air exhausts here, not hot air, just air) and the intake from the rear of the EX-15's are about 12-14" away from the wall. There's plenty of airflow behind the units, although when there wasnt I couldnt tell a difference anyhow, I figure the airflow there now is just for longevity of the machines rather than a "help me each time" of a fix.

Thanks!

TheNovice · #23 2010-08-19, 10:35am

I'd like to post an update after having the units for about 3 or 4 months and being new in glass.

The concentrators work perfectly still, even when its 95(f) ambient air and 80% humidity.

I'll probably upgrade to a Phantom GTT 4 stud torch by year end and go to liquid oxygen. However, I'll still *probably* keep the Red Max to do little work and work with friends at the same time. The oxygen concentrator setup is really nice still, but I'd like to note that the heat base isnt suitable on 44mm+++ heavy walled tubing. It'll do fine on 44mm or 50mm medium wall, but not heavy wall. I'm finding that for doing inside/out work that 38mm heavy wall melts fairly quickly, and that its a nice speed. Nothing much more than that, though.

That's all.

samblack · #24 2013-10-28, 10:32am

Need help with Oxygen Concentrator maintenance...any special instructions for cleaning the filter in the back? I haven't opened it yet but after reading all these posts, I think the reason my flame is sputtering and going out is that I wasn't told by the person I bought it from that a filter in the back needs to be cleaned. I'm going to try to call someone at Extreme Oxygen but in the meantime if anyone know specifically what I should do...would be greatly appreciated. I also think I may have it too close to a wall with not enough air behind it...that's what I learned from reading all of these posts. I'll move it away from the wall AND point a floor fan at the bottom. Thanks for any advice.

istandalone24/7 · #25 2013-11-01, 6:19am

the filter that is located inside the housing in the back door needs to be replaced, not cleaned.
the foam mesh filter on the left side of the machine (looking at the front, it's on the left) needs to be washed with soap and water.

i clean the mesh filter every 3 months or so, but haven't replaced the inner filter yet, and i'm approaching a year on these machines. i'm def due for a filter replacement.

LadyGlass108 · #26 2013-12-23, 4:48pm

Hi all. I just bought two EX15's from D&L Art Glass in Denver. We're setting them up to run with a Red Rocket and are experiencing problems with the oxycons "breathing" heavily. I figure we must be doing something wrong, because there are way too many of you that have them and I'm not seeing any complaints about this issue. Anyone have any advice?

istandalone24/7 · #27 2013-12-26, 8:17am

what do you mean by breathing "heavily"? oxycons (especially the ex and m series) make a breathing/whooshing sound every 10 seconds or so...that is normal. this will make your flame fluctuate a bit.

one way to nip this issue in the bud, is to install a holding tank. google "holding tank for oxycons" and you should find the info you need.