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Safety -- Make sure you are safe! |
2006-05-18, 12:36pm
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
Posts: 2,401
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Ventilation Basics
Awhile back, I wrote some fairly intense (technically) documents on ventilation. The response to those articles was good, but a lot of people asked me to put them into an easier to read format, and also to fill in some of the background information -- WHY for example...
So, I've got two articles up on AGF right now: http://www.artglassforum.com/forums/...splay.php?f=33
I'm (slowly) working on the 3rd and final part, but it's going to take some time, so be patient please!
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Chaotic Glass: Safety for the glassworker, and random thoughts and opinions on the state of the glassworking world To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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2006-05-18, 9:20pm
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Corgi Cult Member
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Join Date: Jan 10, 2006
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 3,723
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Mike, you are ventilation god!! Your information should help so many with this important issue.
Kathy
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2006-05-22, 2:48pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 07, 2006
Location: Tehachapi, CA
Posts: 2,032
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Working Outdoors, Mike, need advice!
I still plan to work outdoors to start with. I have a Hot Head, and I'm starting out on small bottles of propane but plan to work up to a bbq tank with a hose.
The problem I have with working outside is wind. I live in a windy area. I've been told that I'll have trouble keeping the torch lit and that even if it stays lit it will bounce around.
So is there a way to block the wind from the torch without compromising ventilation? It seems that ventilation would be a non-issue working outside in a breeze, but I'll bet you'll tell me something about that that I'm not aware of. I'm working on a concrete porch. If I semi fence off the porch, leave say a foot clear from the ground to the bottom of the fence and go up to just above eye level while sitting at the table, do you think that will be adequate? I'm thinking metal fence poles and plywood for the fence. It would be probably at least 3 feet from the torch flame.
I'd much appreciate your thoughts (or anyone else's ) on this subject. Thanks!
Cheryl
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2006-05-22, 7:30pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 07, 2006
Location: Tehachapi, CA
Posts: 2,032
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Me again, my brother says he will put up a partial fence/windbreak around my 7'x6' patio. I figure I will leave about a foot open all the way around at the bottom and have it end just above the top of my head when I'm sitting at the torch. I'll have it go two sides and leave one open so I can get out into the yard. If this doesn't sound ok I hope someone will let me know soon. Thanks!
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2006-06-08, 12:39am
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Michelle Morrison-Geschke
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Join Date: Mar 02, 2006
Location: Just moved to OLYMPIA, WA!!!
Posts: 925
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Mike, Can you help "my" Michael?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeAurelius
I'm (slowly) working on the 3rd and final part, but it's going to take some time, so be patient please!
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My very darling husband is building me my first studio space. It is a converted 8x8 garden shed. He is adding a couple windows, ceiling vents, and anything else he can do to make ventilation work properly.
I have an Oxycon, and will be running a Minor torch on propane (tank outside, "hard piped" through the wall with valves inside and out - Thanks to you!). He needs some help on the vent hood/fan set-up for our small space.
I'm not good at all with the technical stuff, so I've shown him this site, and told him that you are "the guy" to check with. We were going to purchase a kitchen style vent hood, and need to know more about how to convert it.
Can you help us?
Michelle
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I'm mostly over at Facebook these days... and working. Life has gotten... Hectic. I will try to check messages here... but try FB if you need me...
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2006-06-08, 7:01am
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
Posts: 2,401
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Yeah Michelle - let me cogitate on this and I'll write back.
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2006-06-13, 4:29pm
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Sheryll
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Join Date: Jun 13, 2006
Location: San Jose
Posts: 1,928
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Wondering the same thing...
Hi Mike,
Don't know if you responded the earlier question in another thread or not but just wondering if you did? I'm considering buying a 8 x 10 shed for my personal studio (the bf has some crazy notion that I'm taking over the garage with my glassy stuff - he actually expects to work on his car in there) but I'm not really sure how to have it set up for torching ventilation. Anyway, I'm catching up on all the ventilation threads but sounds like Beyond the Bead (Michelle) are in the same boat. If you have answered this, could you steer me to your response?
Thanks,
Sheryll
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2006-06-13, 6:03pm
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
Posts: 2,401
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Actually, I'm still working on some of the mechanics...give me another couple of days and I will have a definitive answer, and hopefully a design.
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2006-06-14, 10:18am
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Michelle Morrison-Geschke
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Join Date: Mar 02, 2006
Location: Just moved to OLYMPIA, WA!!!
Posts: 925
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Thank you Mike!
You are fantastic! I'm having my husband wait until you are ready, and he has read most of your stuff and agrees that you are the expert!
Really appreciate you doing this for all of us that need your help.
Michelle
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I'm mostly over at Facebook these days... and working. Life has gotten... Hectic. I will try to check messages here... but try FB if you need me...
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2006-06-20, 11:18am
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Michelle Morrison-Geschke
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Join Date: Mar 02, 2006
Location: Just moved to OLYMPIA, WA!!!
Posts: 925
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How is it going???
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I'm mostly over at Facebook these days... and working. Life has gotten... Hectic. I will try to check messages here... but try FB if you need me...
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2006-07-09, 2:04pm
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oxygen deprived
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Join Date: Nov 15, 2005
Posts: 293
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Wow, thanks for posting this. Now I know that I need a hood to make my ghetto dual box-fan setup safe.
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2006-07-10, 8:29am
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Goddess
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Join Date: Jul 12, 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,033
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I look forward to seeing your answer too Mike. My husband is also in the process of setting up a garden house 9 1/2ft x 11 1/2ft as a studio and I will need to figure out the ventilation soon.
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2006-08-03, 8:08pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Mar 24, 2006
Posts: 4
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MIke, thank you for the info on ventilation. I've been successfully working at my glass in a corner of the garage for 3 years. I have exhaust fan, hood, fresh air, etc. Suddenly in the past 3 days I feel I'm breathing chemicals--even, like, acid! I have an OGSI, and use a Lynx. Any ideas about what I can do to check out this problem? And what is "torch smell?" Thanks.
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2006-08-04, 4:28am
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Safety ALWAYS
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
Posts: 2,401
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Well, apparently, SOMETHING changed. I'd check your ducting to see if it is blocked somehow, maybe a bird's nest or hornet nest (quite possible). Also check the fan to see if it is working properly. Has your fresh air source changed at all?
Torch smell is NOX, nitrous oxides. They are hazardous to breathe.
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2006-08-05, 6:57am
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What, Me Worry?
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Join Date: Jul 09, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahkat
MIke, thank you for the info on ventilation. I've been successfully working at my glass in a corner of the garage for 3 years. I have exhaust fan, hood, fresh air, etc. Suddenly in the past 3 days I feel I'm breathing chemicals--even, like, acid! I have an OGSI, and use a Lynx. Any ideas about what I can do to check out this problem? And what is "torch smell?" Thanks.
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How long have you had the OGSI and Lynx?
Where is the OGSI located relative to your torch?
How long do you torch?
Bill
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2006-08-09, 5:15pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Mar 24, 2006
Posts: 4
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Thanks for the advice. I'll check out your suggestions.So far as I can tell, nothing in the immediate environment has changed. HOWEVER! Air quality in the Sierra foothills might also be a culprit. I keep windows and garage door open, so maybe I'm just breathing in chemicals that everyone else gets up here. Hmmm . . .
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2006-08-09, 5:23pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Mar 24, 2006
Posts: 4
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Hi, Bill,
I've had the OGSI for just over 3 years and it stands 5-7 ft. from torch. We did a major overhaul on it (over the phone) a year ago. OGSI sent many replacement parts and we installed. Nothing has changed with the OGSI--since last July it's been functioning as good as new. Lynx is 4-5 years old I'm guessing. My torch time: 5-8 hours. Any ideas? Thanks, K C
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2006-08-09, 7:43pm
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What, Me Worry?
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Join Date: Jul 09, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannahkat
Hi, Bill,
I've had the OGSI for just over 3 years and it stands 5-7 ft. from torch. We did a major overhaul on it (over the phone) a year ago. OGSI sent many replacement parts and we installed. Nothing has changed with the OGSI--since last July it's been functioning as good as new. Lynx is 4-5 years old I'm guessing. My torch time: 5-8 hours. Any ideas? Thanks, K C
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Hi KC,
Thank you for your reply. Based on your info, if you have not experienced this problem before, then what I was considering is very remote.
Still, I'll tell you what I initially considered - even though it is unlikley. At high temperature (like torch temp), nitrogen can react with oyxgen to form nitric oxide (NO). NO can react with many things, and one is water, producing a weak sour tasting acid. I though maybe that was the feel/taste you might be getting. All oxycons exhaust the nitrogen extracted from the concentrated air, ususally in the vicinity of the oxycon. Oxycon = extra nitrogen; Torch/OxidizingFlame = extra oxygen. BUT, as I said this is very remote - and would only be a consideration if the ventilation system arrangement somehow has a partial backdraft of some of the combustion gases.
By way of suggestion, try a placing a lighted incense stick, in a mandrel holder block, on each side of your torch flame, at the torch face, and see if possibly a backdraft is occuring while you torch. That's what I do here my three test stations if we make any physical changes to the studio. High CFM fans or not... it seems a simple studio furniture rearrangement can still affect flow, even a little. If there is a flow disturbance in your studio, say a wind shift perhaps, maybe the incense drift will help isolate it.
Bill
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"Education is what remains after we have forgotten what we learned" ~ I forget who said that.
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2006-08-14, 1:57pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Mar 24, 2006
Posts: 4
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Thanks for all the ideas. I just switched back to my Minor burner today to try to isolate the problem. So far, I'm not experiencing any "fumes" (I say fumes for lack of a better word). Looks like my Lynx is the culprit, so maybe I'll trot over to Arrow Springs with it to see if Craig has any ideas before sending it back to the GTT guys. I still don't understand what's going on . . .
K C
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