little explosion!!

JLyman · #1 2008-07-29, 8:49am

Last night while torching in my garage, with the propane tank far away from me thank goodness, I had an explosion. The hose that is attached to my hot head apparently had a leak. I have been a little stuffy so I didn't smell the propane leaking. When the fumes hit the fire it exploded, it was like a fire ball in the face. Lukily I have great ventilation so it was a small explosion but it was enough to blow the hose off the hot head, the mandrel out of my hands, and singe the hair around my face. My face hurts a little this morning but somehow I escaped any burns to my face. I was wearing safety glasses so my eyes were protected. I really feel lucky. Now I am afraid to use the hose (I won't be able to use the same one because when it happened the hose separated from the fitting). Is it possible I had the flame set too low and the tank turned up too high? Anyway, I bought the hose from a reliable store online, and obviously I somehow didn't do something right but I think I am going back to small mapp tanks that I know are attached and not leaking. I am kind of embarassed this happened to me but I thought I would tell the story so it doesn't happen to anyone else. Make sure your hoses are attached properly!!!! AND DO NOT TORCH BY THE TANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dale M. · #2 2008-07-29, 9:53am

Glad you are ok...... These incidents are almost unheard of, but accidents do happen...

DO NOT TRY TO REUSE HOSE.... Obviously there was a defect where hose was crimped on connector for torch........ Cut it up so it can't accidentally be reused and dispose of it.....

Also a continued process for leak testing all connections, either on Hot Head or oxy/fuel systems may have caught this before your accident.....

Dale

Chuckie · #3 2008-07-29, 10:12am

Always, always check hoses for leaks, especially when you first attach them to your tank and torch. Use soapy water with plenty of soap and look for tiny bubbles fizzing up off the hose along the entire gas line. Pay special attention to any connections, like where the fitting is slid onto the hose and where the hose attatches to the tank and at the torch. You should do periodic checks if you leave the hoses attached, and check them every time if you disassemble your setup after torching.

I'm so glad you are OK. That is so scarey!

theglasszone · #4 2008-07-29, 10:44am

Oh, J~~~!

Sounds very scary...I'm so glad you're OK!!!

I don't think that the standard "Hot Head Hose" has a "flashback arrestor" option that woud even fit, and I'm thinking that since your Propane Tank was some distance from your torch, this was a saving grace. It occurred to me, though, how did the flame not travel through the hose and not blow your tank? I initially had reservations about posting this question in written form, since as I think about it, I cringe at the thought of how awful this COULD HAVE BEEN! Nevertheless, it's probably a good question to put out there - in case someone has a theory and/or definitive information on how to add more "flashback" protection to a Hot Head Hose.

A lesson to all, of course, is to keep that tank far, far away from your torch area and definitely NOT inside your studio - outside only!

Take care and hope you find your comfort zone asap to get back on the horse and ride!

Hugs,
DeAnne

JLyman · #5 2008-07-29, 12:27pm

Thanks!! I have no idea why the flame didn't go backwards in the hose and blow up the tank. My friend asked me the same thing. The only thing I can think of is that when the explosion happened it blew the hose part off of the fitting on the hothead which was also dangerous because there was propane blowing out of the hose, luckily I acted fast and ran out and turned off the propane tank. When I write all of this I realize how lucky I am, and yes I should have been testing for leaks. The great thing about this experience is I learned a lot and only have some red spots on my face and a little bit of burned hair to show for it. I feel blessed!!! If I didn't love this so much I would quit as of last night!!!

laserglass · #6 2008-07-29, 1:48pm

i am glad you are ok. you were very lucky. no one should be using a hothead inside a building with a bulk tank, it is way too dangerous. it is dangerous if the tank is outside and even worse inside..

Belladonna · #7 2008-07-29, 9:13pm

I'm really new to all this but I could have sworn I read that it isn't recommended to use bulk gas and hoses when using a hot head torch, that the torch was originally designed for use with small canisters only. Could this have been the culprit?

teachertracey · #8 2008-07-30, 4:51am

Geez. I am so glad you're okay and that you didn't suffer any worse burns.

Dale M. · #9 2008-07-30, 7:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by theglasszone

I don't think that the standard "Hot Head Hose" has a "flashback arrestor" option that woud even fit, and I'm thinking that since your Propane Tank was some distance from your torch, this was a saving grace. It occurred to me, though, how did the flame not travel through the hose and not blow your tank?
DeAnne

The "flash" of fuel was caused by a leaking hose. A flashback arrestor would have had no effect in this situation. The "flash" was external to hose, a flashback arrestor would only have had effect if it were internal to hose.

This situation could have happened to any torch the fact it was a HH on bulk fuel is not completely relevant. It could have happened even with a oxy/fuel torch with flashback arrestor in place.... A leak is a leak....

Again, everybody consciously check for leaks. Even if there was none yesterday, that does not mean it can not occur today.

Dale

laserglass · #10 2008-07-30, 7:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale M.

This situation could have happened to any torch the fact it was a HH on bulk fuel is not completely relevant. It could have happened even with a oxy/fuel torch with flashback arrestor in place.... A leak is a leak....
Dale

a leak in a hose at 0.25 to 10 psi pressure is a leak. this is the pressure range for a normal oxy/fuel torch.

a leak in a hose at 150 to 250 psi pressure is a much much much bigger leak. this is the pressure range for a hothead torch as it has no regulator.

pam · #11 2008-07-30, 10:22am

Here is a link to the ISGB safety forum for more info that you may find relevant. http://www.isgb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13314

JLyman · #12 2008-07-30, 4:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam

Here is a link to the ISGB safety forum for more info that you may find relevant. http://www.isgb.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13314

I wish I would have known this before I bought the hose!!! I am not using the hose anymore. I bought mapp tanks and am going to stick to those until I buy a minor torch, which will be sooner rather than later (you can bet I will be checking for leaks everyday). I tried to make beads yesterday but I was too afraid even though I was using a small mapp tank. Finally today I was able to sit down and torch. I hope this thread helps to prevent this from happening to anyone else, it was awful!!!

Hayley · #13 2008-07-30, 4:59pm

I am so glad you suffered minimal injuries!!!

I have read about how unsafe it was to use a bulk tank with a HotHead. That was why I only used 1# mapp canisters when I was on a HH and upgraded to a Bobcat in less than six months. My only concern is that now that Mapp is discontinued, there will be more bulk tank of propane used with HHs!

pam · #14 2008-07-30, 6:21pm

Unfortunately, most people tend to ignore the fact that Hot Head torches were made for the small canisters. It is so much more convenient and less costly to hook up to one of the big tanks. However, it is important to understand the dangers involved when you use a product outside of the recommendations. Don't feel bad, or afraid - though I am sure I would if something like that happened. Many, many people torch every day with a Hot Head torch and this is the first time I have heard of something like this happening. You have to be terribly, terribly cautious when using any torch, but the Hot Head, since it doesn't regulate the pressure coming from the tank is especially dangerous when used with a bulk tank. Just be careful and alert to the problems that can occur. I am really, really glad that you are okay. You were very lucky, as it could have been so much worse.

lampworker1 · #15 2008-07-30, 7:28pm

Hi, I used a hothead with bulk fuel and did not have any problems. I guess ignorane is bliss. In any event I want to thanks for sharing this with all of us and I am so glad your injuries were not worse. Sorry you were frighted. Best of luck and keep torching. Incidents like this remind us to be careful. Take care.

kbinkster · #16 2008-07-31, 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by laserglass

a leak in a hose at 0.25 to 10 psi pressure is a leak. this is the pressure range for a normal oxy/fuel torch.

a leak in a hose at 150 to 250 psi pressure is a much much much bigger leak. this is the pressure range for a hothead torch as it has no regulator.

exactly

J, I am so glad that you're o.k.!

sbordocj · #17 2008-07-31, 5:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

I am so glad you suffered minimal injuries!!!

I have read about how unsafe it was to use a bulk tank with a HotHead. That was why I only used 1# mapp canisters when I was on a HH and upgraded to a Bobcat in less than six months. My only concern is that now that Mapp is discontinued, there will be more bulk tank of propane used with HHs!

Today I visited my local Airgas store and was able to buy 1lb canisters of MAPP gas. When I said something about it being discontinued, they were surprised and said it was news to them. They have plenty in stock and supply several local outfits with MAPP gas. The gas I bought is bottled by Bernzomatic. Incidentally, Bernzomatic has a page on their site that shows a MAPP bottle and gives the specs, etc. Maybe it isn't discontinued??

Hayley · #18 2008-07-31, 5:59pm

This is the thread on the subject . . . since I don't use MAPP gas, I am sorry that I haven't really followed the development. I think BernzOmatic will be selling propylene and not the trademarked MAPP gas . . .

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...t=85050&page=2

Dale M. · #19 2008-07-31, 7:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbordocj

Today I visited my local Airgas store and was able to buy 1lb canisters of MAPP gas. When I said something about it being discontinued, they were surprised and said it was news to them. They have plenty in stock and supply several local outfits with MAPP gas. The gas I bought is bottled by Bernzomatic. Incidentally, Bernzomatic has a page on their site that shows a MAPP bottle and gives the specs, etc. Maybe it isn't discontinued??

It may be MAPP and it may be available until existing supplies run out...

I was in local hardware store today and also Home Depot, both have Bernz-0-Matic MAP-PRO (propylene) in yellow canisters..... You have to read label real close...

Dale

ziggys · #20 2008-07-31, 10:18pm

Hi, I'm so glad all is Ok, though you had a big scare for sure! And I'm really glad you got back on the horse so to speak.
I personally stopped using bulk propane with a Hot Head because of the facts Mark posted and other info I read about the dangers. Sometimes I think there is so much contrary information out there it's hard to know what to do. But I could not torch happily anymore with bulk. Still, I know many that do and thought I was silly for not, but well, it IS supposed to be fun right?

Angela

sbordocj · #21 2008-08-01, 6:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale M.

It may be MAPP and it may be available until existing supplies run out...

I was in local hardware store today and also Home Depot, both have Bernz-0-Matic MAP-PRO (propylene) in yellow canisters..... You have to read label real close...

Dale

The gas I purchased was actually MAPP gas, not Map-Pro. Also, sorry I put this in the wrong thread. Probably a blonde thing.

sbordocj · #22 2008-08-01, 6:03am

Thanks for the thread info. Sorry about that!

Dale M. · #23 2008-08-01, 8:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbordocj

The gas I purchased was actually MAPP gas, not Map-Pro. Also, sorry I put this in the wrong thread. Probably a blonde thing.

Not a problem.... If you don't read label real close they look the same....

And as you said, your source does have MAPP..... Maybe when all stock is sold out they will stock Map-Pro..

Dale

debkauz · #24 2008-08-01, 8:39am

I use a HH with a bulk tank. Geeze...why do I feel like I'm at BTA (bulk tank annonymous)? LOL I check it frequently. I use it outside. And I'll keep doing it. I realize that there are folks out there that get their knicks in a twist about those of us who do it but other than you I've never heard of any other issues. I check things frequently. Would I use it inside? Not a chance in hell!

pam · #25 2008-08-01, 10:37am

Deb, I came to the conclusion a long time ago that people are willing to assume different risks at different levels than perhaps you or I would do. I think the important thing is getting the information out there so that everyone can make an informed decision regarding the "risks" they are taking. I know of many, many people that use the bulk tanks and I only know of one other accident than this one, but that doesn't mean that everyone is willing to assume the risks and they should have the information so they can make their own decision.

Hayley · #26 2008-08-01, 11:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam

Deb, I came to the conclusion a long time ago that people are willing to assume different risks at different levels than perhaps you or I would do. I think the important thing is getting the information out there so that everyone can make an informed decision regarding the "risks" they are taking. I know of many, many people that use the bulk tanks and I only know of one other accident than this one, but that doesn't mean that everyone is willing to assume the risks and they should have the information so they can make their own decision.

I agree wholeheartedly, Pam . . . and highlighted the part I think is the most important. Just because I wouldn't take that risk doesn't mean that others shouldn't. . . but they should know that there are risks involved.

Dennis Brady · #27 2008-08-01, 1:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

I agree wholeheartedly, Pam . . . and highlighted the part I think is the most important. Just because I wouldn't take that risk doesn't mean that others shouldn't. . . but they should know that there are risks involved.

There's a huge difference between telling somebody that a practice is prohibited and telling them it's dangerous. Each person should be provided with the information and left to do their own risk assessment and to make their own decision as to whether or not they'll accept the risk.

Raven Wylder · #28 2008-08-01, 4:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Brady

There's a huge difference between telling somebody that a practice is prohibited and telling them it's dangerous. Each person should be provided with the information and left to do their own risk assessment and to make their own decision as to whether or not they'll accept the risk.

Lol, guess that's why we still have Darwin awards?

pam · #29 2008-08-01, 6:39pm

I don't recall anyone using the word "prohibited", but perhaps I missed it.

Dale M. · #30 2008-08-01, 8:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam

I don't recall anyone using the word "prohibited", but perhaps I missed it.

Its one of those "quantum leaps" that happen in obscurity.... In fact its so obscure nobody knows it even happened...

Dale