Mandrel Wound Implosion Beads Tutorial - Page 7

playswithfire104 · #**181** 2006-12-22, 8:18pm

Leigh don't feel bad. I've been lampworking about 3 years and I still can't do them. I was finally able to do an off mandrel one with boro. When I tried to do it with moretti I couldn't. Maybe someone else will chime in and tell us that one piece of info we are missing.

DeboraCox_facetsdesigns · #**182** 2006-12-22, 11:10pm

hi gals - i just made the disc, then added the dots on one side, while keeping the disc warm, not in the flame, just to the side of the flame, flashing it in the flame when adding dots. Once I had all the dots on that I wanted, I brought the disc in with my mandrel pounted more vertically, kept rotating. Melted in the dots SLOWLY and let the glass slowly slump down. I was careful not to get air trapped in there, so went real SLOW. I just kept my mandrel more vertical and kept turning it until the dots melted on down the mandrel. Then I added a bit of glass at the end to finish off each end. Here's a few pics...

hope this helps. Be sure you are working the hothead cool...

here are a few pics

Merry Christmas and happy torching!
Deb

uniqueleigh · #**183** 2006-12-22, 11:59pm

Nancy, I tried an off mandrel one also and seemed to do alittle better. Hopefully there is hope. LOL Thanks for the reply. Leigh

uniqueleigh · #**184** 2006-12-23, 12:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeboraCox_facetsdesigns

Once I had all the dots on that I wanted, I brought the disc in with my mandrel pounted more vertically, kept rotating. Melted in the dots SLOWLY and let the glass slowly slump down.

While your doing this in a vertical tip, do you have the torch flame aimed in towards the inside where the dots are?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeboraCox_facetsdesigns

I was careful not to get air trapped in there, so went real SLOW. I just kept my mandrel more vertical and kept turning it until the dots melted on down the mandrel.

And do you keep the flame towards the inside of the disk/w/dots until it melts down? Or do you heat from the outside while it slumping?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeboraCox_facetsdesigns

Be sure you are working the hothead cool...

Working the hothead cool? I do not know exactly the meaning for cool? I am still pretty new to alot of the terms and all.

Thank you so much for sharing with us. And those beads are wonderful. Have a very MERRY CHRISTMAS, Leigh

uniqueleigh · #**185** 2006-12-23, 1:01pm

ACK!!! It still isn't working. Every once in awhile I get one closed. My biggest issue I think is the dang thing loosening up to slide off the mandrel. Ugh! I can't quit till I get it right but, I have a feeling I am gonna run out of clear first.

I can only guess that I am still getting to much heat into the mandrel for the glass to do this.

Am I suppose to work with the flame cooler? Then it seems that I can not get the disk to slump down. Time to take a nap and see if I can dream it right!

Leigh

ellyloo · #**186** 2006-12-23, 2:00pm

I've done a couple, and you go slow, and bring the disk with your dots up under the flame until the RIM of the disk is heating up and expanding. You know how a sharp edge will all of a sudden 'bloom' in the heat and expand? That's what you want to keep doing.

Keep rotating the EDGE of the disk in the flame, it will keep expanding over to the side if you have your mandrel tilted, and it'll 'suck' the dots up into itself. Don't even touch the middle of the disk or the mandrel with the flame.

Just like making a bead from a disk, only you have the glass travel down hill at the same time.

heheh. i do the dreaming thing too.

playswithfire104 · #**187** 2006-12-25, 6:44pm

[quote=ellyloo;909677]

Just like making a bead from a disk, only you have the glass travel down hill at the same time.

QUOTE]

When I read that something clicked in my head. I haven't tried one of these lately - because I found them so frustrating. Now I can't wait till I have some free time to get on the torch. Thanks so much!!

Hayley · #**188** 2006-12-25, 8:36pm

Leigh,

If I am reading your post correctly, the disk loosen from the mandrel and slides off? You may want to try it with a different brand of bead release. I haven't done this recently, but when I first read this post, I rushed to do a few and was successful on a HotHead. So the torch is not the problem. I remember one of the disks did come off the mandrel - try using the thickest mandrel you have and lay down the footprint of your disk pretty wide for better grip.

Hope that helps.

Hayley

SL Beads · #**189** 2007-01-07, 9:57am

I can successfully make a disk with clear glass alright, but then the problems start. When I try to melt the ropey disk down with a parallel masher, the bead release loosen and break off. Some times I got lucky and passed that stage, but when I tried to mash down the dot designs I must be too aggressive with the tool the bead does not survive that step. I was so disgusted and disappointed that I decided to leave the ropeyness of the disk alone and also the bumpyness of the dot design and proceeded to go to the next step and finish it off. You can see the result of this in my picture. If you look at the beads closely, you can see the wavey design on the dots that come from the ropey disk, I think. If you don't know the process, you might think this is an added dimension to the design. I think it's kind of neat. So,my questions to the successful implosionits is "How much do you have to mush the ropey designs and also the dots and how do you accomplish it?" Also, as you can see, I used a lot of twisty cane for this and I enjoyed that, although I must say that this is not the typical implosion effect that we are trying to create. Please excuse me for the poor photographic setup. Sachiko L.

playswithfire104 · #**190** 2007-01-07, 8:58pm

Those look good to me Sachiko. I'd be happpy if i could make beads like that!

Moth · #**191** 2007-01-11, 10:56am

Hi Sachiko!

I think yours look great!!! Your bead release seems to be the real problem causer here. It should not break free that easily. Let the clear disk get softer before you mash it and it won't take as much force to get the ripples out. However, I do like the look of the ripples.

After I have all the dots onto the disk, I do not mash them in with the mashers. I melt them in with the flame until they are melted smooth. You have to do this slowly, and only allow the dots themselves become molten. You don't want to soften the disk until you are ready to do the implosion part.

Remember you guys...slow down. It's not a race. Heat only the part of the bead that you need to heat and only deep enough to do what you need to do. If it starts becoming too hot...then take it out of the flame, let it cool down a bit then reintroduce it into the flame. Don't be afraid to turn your torch down and up as needed.

I would say that 80% of your success with these beads is heat control. They are an excellent lesson for you to learn where in the flame and how long to heat it. If you get these down...the lessons you learn will help you will ALL your other lampwork.

Keep trying. You are doing great!!!

~~Mary

SL Beads · #**192** 2007-01-11, 4:06pm

Thank you Mary for your advice. I know I should be more patient with this bead. I have another question for you. Your implosion looks so juicy and plump compared with mine which sometimes looks like paper thin potatochips. I wonder if the bottom of the disk should have larger and fewer dots? It's really puzzling to me. Sachiko L.

FourTailsLampwork · #**193** 2007-01-15, 8:52pm

I wondered that, too. Here are three views of my first implosion bead, and the "flower" stops about halfway up. I was interrupted, though, and didn't melt the dots in totally flat before collapsing the bead. The bottom has a lovely grainy petal--the EDP devitted, and ifor once I am happy about that, because t looks good--each deep pink petal has a spread-out shadow of palest white etching.

I used transparent dark, dark violet for the center dots, then added goldstone stringer and EDP dots, interleaved with transparent sage green dots, and then another layer of EDP and goldstone stringer.

raindance · #**194** 2007-01-24, 10:00am

Wow, Mary! I did it! You are such a great teacher! Because if your help I can do flowers...now I can do this! You're my hero! I need much more practice because, like you say, this is an exercise in heat control and patience...but so worth the effort!

P.S. Pardon the bead release in the picture. I was in such a hurry to get a picture and so excited when they came out of the kiln, I didn't clean these first.

jacquidol · #**195** 2007-01-25, 8:36pm

I've been lurking around here forever, but I have to say this is one great tut!

Here're my results for my first two..... I have the cone shape listed on the 'Bay, and the heart goes up tonight or tomorrow! Thanks again everyone for sharing such greta pictures and hugs to Moth again for the wonderful tut!
Jacqui

raindance · #**196** 2007-01-25, 11:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moth

Hi Sachiko!

I think yours look great!!! Your bead release seems to be the real problem causer here. It should not break free that easily. Let the clear disk get softer before you mash it and it won't take as much force to get the ripples out. However, I do like the look of the ripples.

When I have problems making these, it's with my release failing. It happens during the disk stage while melting in the dots. I'm always careful to keep the glass hot enough so the release won't let go. I haven't been using mashers. I use Super Blue Sludge bead release. Is there anything I can do to make it stronger...such as adding kiln wash to it? What brand of bead release do you use, Mary?

It doesn't always happen. I made 5 hearts tonight, but two disks went to the watery grave. It's just so frustrating and such a waste!

uniqueleigh · #**197** 2007-01-31, 7:14am

Does someone have the definition of implosion. Meaning what exactly is the implosion in these. I have heard remarks about seeing the implosion before melting the disk down. I thought the implosion was actually once the disks melts down around the dots. But, of course my brain is not the brightess. LOL

Okay, so far this is what I found to be my biggest issues (some I have figured out fixes to. Some I have not. And some I just haven't found to be consistant it. So look futher down for some of the resolutions that I found) I am working with soft glass and I am on a HH.

1. While making the disk sometimes rows/strings fall off and apart.
2. Getting a uniform disk versus a odd sqaure shape
3. Disk cracking from edge to center
4. Not being able to actually melt my dots in completely
5. While working the disk down it releases from the mandrel (bead release breaks)
6. Not getting much movement in the dots. (meaning that the dots at the outside of the disk move but the ones closer to the mandrel seem to remain dots)

Some solutions or ideas on these problems

1. I found that if I do not get my rod hot enough to flow really well it does not bond with the ring below it and leaves a space. Also, each time I lift me rod back at the completion of a ring (say the start and stop) if the glass is not completely and solidly fused to the row below you will get seperations between your row/rings as the glass starts to cool and heat up. Hence you will have parts of your rings falling off. So, you do have to have your glass hot enough that is completely bonding to each ring with no lifted spaces and not having ends that don't meet up with each other and melted to the row below. So make sure you are getting enough heat for great bonding but, not enough to distort the disk badly.

2. Again this goes back to taking it slow and making sure the glass you are adding is hot and you can keep the movement going around the disk. Just try to keep it slow and uniform. You can add glass but, it seems to be better if you get it right the first time. LOL Take it slow and practice practice pratice.

3. If you are getting this type of cracking it is because your disk is cooling down too much. (I know all of us know this but, a reminder is always good) If I am working on making the disk and it is taking awhile to get it uniform and large enough I will stop adding rings and flash the disk well then go back to adding rings. If I am at the point of adding dots I literally add one dot flash one dot flash. Now if I am working fast because things are running smoothly for once (LOL) I will do a couple dots and flash and so on. You will learn what speed works for you.

4. Okay I still have not found the perfect solution for myself on this one. I can NOT seem to get those babies flat for nothing. I almost always while trying to get them flat (via mashing, extra heating, etc.) create new problems so this is one that is frustrating me completely. Yes I know PP&P. But, any ideas or suggestions on this would be great.

5. Okay, I now know the problems that are causing this - mashing and cause stress in the bead release and over heating causing the glass to pull away from the mandrel. So, I am supposing that I need to go even slower in the heating depart while making sure not to over heat the mandrel but, making sure that the disk is hot enough to safely mash the disk so that I am not causing stress on the bead release.

6. I am pretty certain that I am not getting the movement that I am wanting based on the dots not getting flat enough? So I am guessing if I find a remedy for that I will fix the movement issue?????

So, I haven't gotten it down pat yet but, I am hoping that by posting all this maybe it will help someone else some too. Anyway I am NOT giving up because they are driving me mad. I want to master implossion dog on it.

Happy torching all, LEIGH

My Bloody Valentine · #**198** 2007-01-31, 10:39pm

Well this was such an easy to follow and understand tute that even a novice such as myself had the courage to follow it. I made two implosion beads, one not bad and the other one I quite liked. Course, that would be the one to crack whilst in the kiln. It's the only bead that cracked, so my guess is I did something wrong in that implosion...maybe I got an air bubble in there? Any hints on what I was doing wrong?

Thanks again for a marvellous tute *hugs*

one hot beader · #**199** 2007-02-01, 4:29am

I've given up on implosions because all but one cracked in the vermiculite!

Even the one's i was careful to heat thoroughly!

might try it again now I have a bit more experience!

raindance · #**200** 2007-02-04, 12:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by uniqueleigh

4. Not being able to actually melt my dots in completely
5. While working the disk down it releases from the mandrel (bead release breaks)
6. Not getting much movement in the dots. (meaning that the dots at the outside of the disk move but the ones closer to the mandrel seem to remain dots)

Some solutions or ideas on these problems

4. Okay I still have not found the perfect solution for myself on this one. I can NOT seem to get those babies flat for nothing. I almost always while trying to get them flat (via mashing, extra heating, etc.) create new problems so this is one that is frustrating me completely. Yes I know PP&P. But, any ideas or suggestions on this would be great.

5. Okay, I now know the problems that are causing this - mashing and cause stress in the bead release and over heating causing the glass to pull away from the mandrel. So, I am supposing that I need to go even slower in the heating depart while making sure not to over heat the mandrel but, making sure that the disk is hot enough to safely mash the disk so that I am not causing stress on the bead release.

6. I am pretty certain that I am not getting the movement that I am wanting based on the dots not getting flat enough? So I am guessing if I find a remedy for that I will fix the movement issue?????

So, I haven't gotten it down pat yet but, I am hoping that by posting all this maybe it will help someone else some too. Anyway I am NOT giving up because they are driving me mad. I want to master implossion dog on it.

Happy torching all, LEIGH

Hi, Leigh!

I've been working on my problem with the mandrel release cracking and I've not had much trouble since I made my initial footprint wider on the mandrel. I make about a 4-5 mm footprint...maybe even a little wider...for just the first trip around the mandrel. I've found I can even put dots on this wide part and still get a great implosion.

About the dots...I never get them all the way flat, but still get good implosions anyway. I just get them as flat as I can before I start imploding. I don't mash the disk at all before or after I add dots. I just use the edge of my graphite paddle to straighten the disk if it gets crooked. It doesn't seem to matter if my disk has ridges, as long as the glass I'm adding is well-bonded to the glass below as I add it to the disk.

The glass has to flow slowly and evenly to get good, long implosions, I've found. To get the glass ready to flow it needs enough even heat. Don't be afraid to heat it all the way to the first wind on the mandrel. If part of your disk is getting too hot, it's okay to take it out of the flame and let it cool a bit. I don't tilt my mandrel very much...just barely. When I'm aiming my flame at the rim, it seems to help when I let part of the flame flow around the rim to also heat the rings below. I kind-of allow the glass to slump down on itself before tilting the mandrel enough to let it flow down on the mandrel. I get a dense bowl-looking thing on the mandrel before I let the glass flow down. I direct some flame inside the bowl where the dots are, then behind the bowl in the back so it slumps down more (trying to get the bowl looking more like a plate) so I don't have an air pocket. Then I tilt the mandrel more and let-'er-rip.

It could be you aren't getting enough heat on the glass near the mandrel before it flows onto the mandrel. The dot won't move if the glass it's on doesn't get soft enough to flow. Don't worry about the shape of the bead...just the implosion. You can always re-shape and add more transparent or clear glass where it's needed after you get the implosion you want.

I'm pretty happy with the implosions I'm getting so far. (Post 194) My disk still has visible ridges and slightly raised dots when I start, but that soon cures itself as the glass gets softer and slumps. After it's flowed down the mandrel to where I want it to end, I take the bead out of the flame and cool it a bit until it's fairly solid. Then I go back into the flame to shape it.

I always use a larger, medium-sized mandrel to do these beads because it really does make it easier. If I use my thinnest mandrels, I make a big footprint to start, then I don't make my disk as large. I usually make it only 1 to 1 1/2 inches. The thin mandrels just won't hold big gobs of glass very well...you'll get major bead release issues.

Anyway...that's what I've learned so far. It may not be perfect...but it works for me!

Lora Rose · #**201** 2007-04-04, 10:30pm

Your tutorial is wonderful! I can't wait to try it! It's good to have someone to look up to! Your beads are beautiful! Thanks for sharing!

Moth · #**202** 2007-04-05, 9:35am

Thanks Lora! Hope to see some beads from you soon! Please post pictures if you can.

Great work everyone!

~~Mary

Smokeylady54 · #**203** 2007-04-07, 6:31am

THAT IS A BEAUTIFUL BEAD AND SUCH A WONDERFUL TUT.

YES CAPS. I AM SO IMPRESSED.

nancy

shiny things · #**204** 2007-05-21, 8:40pm

Moth, thank you so much for teaching this technique! I always thought anything like this was encased, and my encasing stinks. I never thought I'd be able to make anything like that. I tried something that went totally wrong, came back and looked at the directions again (paid attention that time) and got it just like that! I've been like a kid in a candy shop since then. They're so much fun to make, I may not make anything but implosion beads ever again. There are three cooling in the kiln right now. I can't wait to see how they turned out. Your tutorial has given a newbie a lot more confidence, and a lot of new ideas.
Shanna

Moth · #**205** 2007-05-21, 9:10pm

Hi Nancy & Shanna,
People like you are why I write tutorials.

Thanks so much for letting me know it helped.

Have fun!
~~Mary

Breezy · #**206** 2007-06-13, 7:50am

Mary, thank you so much for your fantabulous tutorial! I had so much fun making this set. This is the first time I've posted pics, so hopefully I'm doing it right

Breezy

Kalera · #**207** 2007-06-15, 10:34am

YAYYYY Miz B you finally posted pics! I love that set, it's GORGEOUS.

Moth · #**208** 2007-06-15, 12:11pm

Hey Breezy!!!

Those are KILLER! Congratulations for making such a great set and thanks so much for sharing. Glad you posted a pic for us to see.

~~Mary

Aidensmommy · #**209** 2007-09-17, 3:03pm

I can't wait to try it!!! Thank you so much for sharing with a newbie!!!

Aidensmommy · #**210** 2007-09-19, 2:47pm

Thank you so much for the ideas. I finally tried it and although I never got the same result twice I loved how each one turned out. I am a newbie so I know they are by no means fantastic but what fun!!! Thank you again for sharing with us. I am going to try to attach the photo (1st time I've done this) ... I hope it works.