Copper Etching Discussion

houptdavid · #1 2010-09-25, 3:51pm

I have looked around the forum and online and find that there are several etching methods that should work at home.
*ETA the first method also electroforms!!!

*Please note that the term nontoxic/non-toxic has become synonymous with safety conscious practice. Nontoxic processes still use a variety of chemicals, and the ultimate safety of any material and process is dependent on their informed use.

Rectifier and Copper sulphate... added 11/29/10
http://www.greenart.info/galvetch/contfram.htm
Look at the bottom there is a place to "get book" PDF download from Cedric Green hence "Green Prints"
http://www.nontoxicprint.com/electroetching.htm
The Chemistry of using Copper Sulfate Mordant Added 11/28/10
http://www.ndiprintmaking.ca/?p=74

*Although copper sulfate is a comparatively safe chemical for etching, it is considered a marine pollutant, and if present in rivers or lakes it can kill fish. It is crucial that solutions containing this salt are never poured down a drain.

Complete Elimination of Metal Compounds from Mordant before Disposal
http://www.ndiprintmaking.ca/?p=80
http://www.nontoxicprint.com/etchzincsteelaluminum.htm

Rectifier and salt solution...
http://www.cspoguegraphics.com/electrolysis.php added 2/20/13
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=120896
http://www.instructables.com/id/The-...-etch-process/ Be sure to read the replies!
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...3&postcount=37

Ferric Chloride solution (commercial etchant radio shack, art supply)
http://copperheartdesigns.blogspot.c...ch-copper.html
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nena...nsfer_etch.htm
http://www.hodgepodgerie.com/etching-copper.html
http://www.ccsf.edu/Departments/Art/...page_image.htm

Edinburgh etch solution Ferric Chloride and Citric acid
http://www.ganoksin.com/ftp/edinburg-etch.pdf
http://www.nontoxicprint.com/etchcopperandbrass.htm
http://www.polymetaal.nl/beguin/mape/edinburgh_etch.htm

Cupric Chloride etchant Peroxide/acid ( Hardware store/drugstore)
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~esey...uCl/index.html
http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html (added 10/14)
http://157.158.19.167/papers_amme03/1229.pdf
http://www.opencircuits.com/Chemical_Etchants
Video series (added 10/9)
http://www.ehow.com/videos-on_8351_e...it-boards.html

Etching in general
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nena...-champleve.htm
http://www.making-jewelry-now.com/ac...ry-part-1.html

Resists
scotch tape, asphalt, red paint, Petroleum jelly, sharpie markers,
Nail polish (you can thin it down to a great consistency for painting fine lines),
Testors enamel paint is another great one.
Future or KLEAR acrylic floor polish.

PnP info... http://www.techniks.com/how_to.htm
Magazine paper and laser printer
http://www.riccibitti.com/pcb/pcb.htm (added 10/12/10)
http://fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm (added 1/8/11)

Flame Coloring...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzU5RNAjN34

Build your own rectifier/power supply...
http://chriscrawfordknives.com/#/ele...nit/4535265119 (added 2/12/11)

So what do you use for solution/resist?

ETA 12/11: Electroplating http://www.archive.org/stream/electr...e/250/mode/2up

rusticstudio · #2 2010-09-25, 4:44pm

I've done it a couple of times using black Sharpie and Ferric Chloride.
I've seen others use black permanent ink with rubber stamps.

BTW, please remember that the sludge at the bottom of the etch bath should be disposed of at a toxic waste facility.

AdiaB · #3 2010-09-25, 6:40pm

ferric chloride and a few different resists (tape, ink, printer toner)

mewkittie · #4 2010-09-25, 7:01pm

I use PnP for the resist and ferric chloride. I can get really crisp images with the PnP paper. It takes more work to get it off but the results are worth it.

The industrial Sharpie markers work better than the regular Sharpies. I've used rubber stamps too and they work well if I can get a good stamping with some kind of permanent ink like Staz-on. I sometimes have to touch up using a Sharpie. I never get the image as crisp as with the PnP paper but sometimes I'm going for something less precise and more organic. It's way easier to remove the Sharpie or Staz-on inks afterwards than the PnP paper.

I did this one using PnP paper resist. I accidentally left it in the ferric chloride too long and got a deeper etch than I wanted. I haven't cleaned up the copper yet, just removed the PnP paper.

This piece is sterling silver etched using the PnP paper resist. I only cleaned off the PnP paper, the silver still needs to be pickled and shined up. I used ferric nitrate for the etching solution.

It's hard to tell because it's not cleaned up but all the little lines show up crisp. It's hard to get the same from a rubber stamp.

And I agree, the residue needs to be dispose of properly, as with the solution and care needs to be taken when using any kind of acids.

lindag · #5 2010-09-25, 7:23pm

Thanks for that list! Everything you need to know in one location is great.

I've only etched copper once using the ferric chloride. I etched two pieces - on one I used a sharpie and the other I used mylar stickers (scrapbook stickers from Michael's, etc.). The stickers had crisper edges but I liked both equally.

Deb Hopeful Journeys · #6 2010-09-25, 7:45pm

I've had nothing but trouble with the PnP paper. Do you have any suggestions on how to use it?

Thanks in advance.

houptdavid · #7 2010-09-25, 7:54pm

PnP paper... http://www.techniks.com/how_to.htm

Escapade · #8 2010-09-25, 8:16pm

verrrrrry cool beans ! So who has the lowest pricing for silver sheet ?

mewkittie · #9 2010-09-25, 9:05pm

I do it just like the link David provided. I've always got a good transfer. What kind of issues are you having with PnP paper?

Monsterslayer has low prices on sterling silver sheet. I fortunately bought a lot of it years ago before the prices skyrocketed.

Frit Diva · #10 2010-09-25, 9:28pm

What a fantastic resource! David, you rock ~

Jo

Truewealth · #11 2010-09-26, 5:34am

Great resources David..thanks for listing them!

I use rubber stamps, sharpies, stickers and soon, PNP paper for resists.....bought the laser printer/pnp paper..just need to set it up.

Susan....beautiful etching!! LOVE it!!

happybeader · #12 2010-09-26, 6:10am

Thank you for all of the great information. Sounds like you can run the PnP Paper thru the copy machine and don't have to us a laser printer. I am going to order some paper!
Teresa

houptdavid · #13 2010-09-26, 7:14am

As long as the copier uses dry toner!
A 3 in one fax,copier,printer will not work

mewkittie · #14 2010-09-26, 7:19am

David did an awesome job collecting all the info and putting it all in one place. Thanks David!!

I photocopy my images onto the PnP paper. I've always taken my images to a copy store and used a laser copy machine to make my copies. I'm not sure if an ink jet copier will work. I'm guessing not.

mewkittie · #15 2010-09-26, 7:20am

Thanks David for answering the copier question. I didn't know for sure.

houptdavid · #16 2010-10-09, 10:08am

Just found this video series on the muratic acid/peroxide method...

http://www.ehow.com/videos-on_8351_e...it-boards.html

Deb Hopeful Journeys · #17 2010-10-11, 12:56pm

I'm having trouble getting a good solid transfer onto the metal.

houptdavid · #18 2010-10-11, 3:17pm

Deb is it clean? Scrub down the copper with some acetone first and let it dry
then try

Ok here is my first try at this with the Acid/peroxide method

Lto R
top patinaed pigmented stamp ink (?) (about 45 mins)

top patinaed Spray paint on lace fabric them stamped while wet (about 45) mins

no patina top sharpie marker, bottom spray lacquer thru lace fabric
You can see to the upper right that it actually started to eat the copper plate but it was in for 1 1/2 hrs

Washable stamp ink does not work it just washes off

For $5.73 I made 1/2 gallon of solution

Rose Leslie · #19 2010-10-17, 5:29pm

OK the PNP is like the paper that Wally world has to use on Sweat shirt of any fabric. They are used in your printer? Or is it a PNP that is from a printer store?

Rose Leslie · #20 2010-10-18, 8:09pm

Thank you for this information.

VivianLampwork · #21 2010-10-18, 8:23pm

I tried this with my rectifier today & it etched really well. The only problem was that my resist came off. I used a sharpie. It stayed at first, but I went to sleep & left them in to long. I ordered some of the resist from Dick Blick but it hasn't come yet.

Rose Leslie · #22 2010-10-19, 10:56am

OK There is a professor that is doing this in the art department. Went into the book store to find all the goodies to use for acid etching and the copper in small to large pieces.
OMG! I'm in hog heaven. Will see how this other works first. Would love to see how this works in there class.

houptdavid · #23 2010-11-02, 2:35pm

I think I got it figured out for the most part...

3x6

3x4

Ari'elle · #24 2010-11-02, 3:22pm

David, they're beautiful! What did you end up using to etch?

houptdavid · #25 2010-11-02, 4:08pm

Thank you! The acid/peroxide solution

Janetlee · #26 2010-11-02, 6:27pm

David, Those are very well done. Love them!! Beautiful work!!!!
Janet C

houptdavid · #27 2010-11-28, 10:49pm

Added to the list above

The Chemistry of using Copper Sulfate Mordant
http://www.ndiprintmaking.ca/?p=74

Complete Elimination of Metal Compounds from Mordant before Disposal
http://www.ndiprintmaking.ca/?p=80

houptdavid · #28 2010-11-29, 11:20am

Copper sulphate solution is used with a rectifier for electroforming and etching. It is suggested by 1 etching supplier that it is "safe to pour down the drain".

Copper sulfate is highly toxic to fish. In 1995 California EPA banned the sale and use of products containing copper sulfate due to exceeded acceptable levels in San Francisco Bay and its estuaries. The counties included in the ban were Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara and Sonoma.
Copper sulfate may also be poisonous to sheep and chickens at normal application rates. Most animal life in soil, including large earthworms, have been eliminated by the extensive use of copper sulfate in orchards.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copper sulphate is banned as a root killer in Connecticut and some areas of Florida

tgslampwork · #29 2010-11-29, 11:57am

To be clear she says: "If you do want to dispose of the solution, you can flush it away as it is not harmful for the environment in small concentrations."

I'm not trying to say it's not bad for the environment or not - but I'm curious as to true hazard regarding the concentration suggested for etching. Also - first and foremost, it's suggested you re-use the solution.

Your etches look awesome!

Quote:

Originally Posted by houptdavid

Copper sulphate solution is used with a rectifier for electroforming and etching. It is suggested by 1 etching supplier that it is "safe to pour down the drain".

Copper sulfate is highly toxic to fish. In 1995 California EPA banned the sale and use of products containing copper sulfate due to exceeded acceptable levels in San Francisco Bay and its estuaries. The counties included in the ban were Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara and Sonoma.
Copper sulfate may also be poisonous to sheep and chickens at normal application rates. Most animal life in soil, including large earthworms, have been eliminated by the extensive use of copper sulfate in orchards.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copper sulphate is banned as a root killer in Connecticut and some areas of Florida

houptdavid · #30 2010-11-29, 12:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgslampwork

To be clear she says: "If you do want to dispose of the solution, you can flush it away as it is not harmful for the environment in small concentrations."

Your etches look awesome!

Kim Thank you

It is the "you can flush it away" part. While yes IN some places you can still do this, in others you cannot and need to be informed of this even in trace quantities.