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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2007-05-25, 5:30pm
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Obsessive Torch Disorder
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Posts: 444
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HELP! My beads are CRACKING!!!
All of a sudden, most of my beads in the past 2 weeks are cracking! WHY? Does this ever happen to you? And just when I'm starting to get a lot of new buyers and things are really picking up...and I'm doing some special orders! I have one buyer who has won 3 sets this week and almost all of the beads on 2 sets I JUST DISCOVERED ARE CRACKED! They WEREN"T cracked a few days ago!!! What do I tell this person?????
It really starts making me worried that other beads I have sold have been cracked and I didn't even notice it!!! Some aren't cracking until a week or more AFTER I'm made them? WHY? How does that happen??? My kiln seems to be working fine, I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary...
Please help with any suggestions or ideas as to WHY this is happening!!!
Thanks very much~
Lynn
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"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"
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2007-05-25, 5:34pm
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Heart Of Glass Beads
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Join Date: Aug 16, 2005
Location: Oregon Coast
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Oh what a bummer, Lynn! Can you give us some more details on what the beads were made with (what colors and types of glass and if they were encased or not). Also, what do the cracks look like? Are they pretty much straight from hole to hole, or are they more crazed type cracks over the surface of the bead? Do you have any pics of the cracks?
Carla
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Carla Graber
Shine-On Glow In The Dark Glass available in 104, 96, 90 COE. PM for Details
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2007-05-25, 5:45pm
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Obsessive Torch Disorder
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Posts: 444
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No, they aren't hole to hole, they are surface cracks. I make (melted) flowers, mainly, and roses and sometimes the cracks will be completely around the rose (rubino over white). I have cracks down the center of a flower...I use COE 104 mostly, transparents, and 96 COE frit, but only the 5% or less under all of my flowers....
I'm going to try and send a photo....
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2007-05-25, 5:46pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
Location: Duh, Squidville
Posts: 9,523
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do you use lauscha clear?
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Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2007-05-25, 5:51pm
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Obsessive Torch Disorder
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Posts: 444
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My photo is too large to download here...does anyone know how I can make the picture smaller?
Thanks
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2007-05-25, 5:52pm
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Obsessive Torch Disorder
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Posts: 444
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no, no Lauscha clear. I don't encase....(wish I could!)
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2007-05-25, 5:58pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
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you can save it to a place like photobucket.com and then link it to here.
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Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2007-05-25, 6:02pm
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Dazed and Confused!
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Join Date: Sep 13, 2005
Location: In the Promise Land
Posts: 480
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to quickly reduce your pic size....
go to image upload and click browse. (you can leave this open while doing all of this)
while the folder window is open, right click on the picture and go to "open with" and pic "paint"
it will open in Paint with you pic showing
click on "Image"
click on "resize/reskew"
change both (top) numbers on resize to about 75 (the numbers have to be the same)
click ok
then save, or save as the same pic name you are working with, then click exit
go back to your file window
now click on that file and try upload
if it is still too big...do the same and try the number 50
sounds like alot of work, but its really not.
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Janet Robinson
Check out the "Dark Room" for new etsy banner templates...free, free, free!
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2007-05-25, 6:04pm
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Obsessive Torch Disorder
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Posts: 444
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One bead was a lentil made with light grass green transparent, rubino roses and white flowers. I always use a really small amount of frit (probably less than the 5% I mentioned) just as a background for the flowers (usually use Candice's frit)...I never seemed to have problems before when I've used the moretti with 96 frit...I was told that was okay....but now, maybe I'll should use only 104 frit...
I also press a LOT with all of the flowers that melt in...could it be that I'm not flame polishing enough before they go into the kiln???
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"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"
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2007-05-25, 6:07pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
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since the cracks are incompatibility and not thermal, pressing is unlikely to be the issue.
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Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2007-05-25, 6:08pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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96 frits mixed with 104 generally works, but you know the saying - "it works until it doesn't."
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2007-05-25, 6:12pm
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Obsessive Torch Disorder
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Posts: 444
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Exactly! It works for a long time, beads turn out fine, and then all of sudden, like now, this happens....
Do you think it would be wise for me to just switch over to 104 frit exclusively? Though, not a lot of people make a lot of pretty 104 frit blends....does anyone know of anyone who does that I don't know about???
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"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"
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2007-05-25, 6:13pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
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LOTS of people use furnace frits (~96 coe) with 104 - I personally do not. I use 96 glasses with these frits.
not sure about 104 frit blends. I have seen a few, but not as many as the 96 type.
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2007-05-25, 6:31pm
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Obsessive Torch Disorder
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Posts: 444
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Maybe that's what I'm doing... Maybe I am adding more frit without even thinking about it...
I just ordered a sample pack of all of Gail's (ggglass) 104 frit blends and Frantz glass 104 frit assortment....if I have to, I may just go to the other team with frit...it is only used as a background....not the focal point of my beads...
You're probably all correct...incompatibility with my frit...sigh.... I sure hate to think that there might be some beads out there (lately) that have cracked....I would feel awful about that...
Thank you, everyone, for your postings on this subject! You are ALL lifesavers!!!
~Lynn
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2007-05-25, 6:32pm
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http://youtu.be/nGt9jAkWi
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
Location: Cullman, Alabama
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I love to use frit & have had the cracking thing happen before. Like you, it scared me. I have started using only 96coe glass with my frit. There are plenty of great 96coe glass on the market.
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Vivian
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2007-05-25, 7:19pm
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Obsessive Torch Disorder
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
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Oh, I know! I have a nice supply of 96 glass that I think I will start to use more of as well...
Does anyone know of a 96 transparent color that is a pretty dark pink, like rubino??? I use a LOT of rubino and would like a color that is very similar if I make the switch over to 96....I just haven't found on the compares to rubino for my roses...
Think I'll post a new question regarding this....
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2007-05-25, 8:25pm
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Lizard rescue squad
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Join Date: Apr 02, 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
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The 5% or 15% "rules" are basically just so much marketing fantasy. In reality, if you are mixing 104 and 96 COE glasses you are mixing incompatible glasses and are creating stress in your beads. The amount of stress depends on how much of each glass is being used and exactly how it is being used. Sometimes you can get away with it. Sometimes you can't. Round shapes are more forgiving of stress, flat shapes like lentils are more likely to crack.
Regardless of any other factors, if you are doing this you are tempting fate and there is a good possibility that your beads will crack - either immediately, or somewhere down the road. Do you really want to risk having your work fall apart in the hands of a customer?
To answer your second question, check out Gaffer G010C or G014C gold ruby. The G010C is the darker of the two. Unlike the German glasses, Gaffer's colors are formulated to be compatible with each other and with 96 "type" glasses. You can also order it in cane form (although they were out of the G010 when I checked.) Gaffer's USA website is here: http://www.gafferglassusa.com/Results.asp?category=9
Brad
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2007-05-25, 11:02pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 25, 2006
Location: Chicago suburb
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I'm sorry this happened to you, it's awful to get scared about something like this.
Just a little anecdote - my DH and I were on vacation and stopped at Spruce Pine Batch in NC - frit heaven and I bought pounds (not ounces, POUNDS). At the time I was using 104 exclusively. I came home and started to play, enjoying myself and being respectful of the difference in coe's. Pretty soon I started moving for special effects with lead crystal. It was so shiny in the flame. All thoughts of coe's went out the vent fan when I stuck that mask on my face. I made a bead that was SOOOOO incompatible, it was cracking as soon as it came out of the flame! AND I WAS ACTUALLY PUZZLED!!!!!!!!! It wasn't til hours later that I realized how I managed it, talk about feeling like a dope. It's easy to see why I hardly ever use frit.
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2007-05-25, 11:30pm
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Dazed and Confused!
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Join Date: Sep 13, 2005
Location: In the Promise Land
Posts: 480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn's lampwork
Exactly! It works for a long time, beads turn out fine, and then all of sudden, like now, this happens....
Do you think it would be wise for me to just switch over to 104 frit exclusively? Though, not a lot of people make a lot of pretty 104 frit blends....does anyone know of anyone who does that I don't know about???
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I use Rheichenbach and Uroboros and CIM 96 rods wtih 96 glass frit. Most of my crack issues have been very minimal since then.
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2007-05-26, 11:30am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 07, 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 626
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Are you using a press that's really spreading the glass out (like a pillow press)? Whenever I make frit beads in a pillow shape with a base of COE 104 glass they crack! So, I use Uroboros clear to make those.
My other thought is that you have a bad batch of something! I recently made beads using Lead Crystal frit. I didn't use any silver foil and the base bead was 100% compatible with the frit -- they ALL cracked!! In theory, the beads should have been fine. They weren't though. I know it was the clear frit that made my beads crack. Is there something in common in all your cracked beads? Maybe it's the gold pink, or the clear, something that is the SAME in all your cracked beads?
I hope you find the problem!!
Candy
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2007-05-27, 5:33pm
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Lizard rescue squad
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Join Date: Apr 02, 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beadgoodies
[snip] I recently made beads using Lead Crystal frit. I didn't use any silver foil and the base bead was 100% compatible with the frit -- they ALL cracked!! In theory, the beads should have been fine. They weren't though. I know it was the clear frit that made my beads crack. [snip]
I hope you find the problem!!
Candy
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****************
Hi Candy. Out of curiosity, exactly what do you mean by, "the base bead was 100% compatible with the frit"? Clearly, if everything you made with those glasses cracked, then something was terribly wrong. While not the only possibility, incompatible glasses are certainly a prime suspect. How do you know the frit and base glasses were 100% compatible? What led you to that conclusion?
I did have an experience where many of my beads were cracking when using glass that I knew was compatible - because I was using only one type and color of glass for the beads. After much head scratching, it turned out that the cracking was caused by bead release that was put on too thick. In an effort to make the bead holes a little larger without resorting to buying larger mandrels I was using a double layer of very thick bead release. The thicker release was sticking to the glass and causing the beads to crack. After chasing down the problem I bought bigger mandrels and went back to using a thin layer of bead release. Problem solved - no more cracking.
Thanks,
Brad
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2007-05-27, 5:43pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 07, 2006
Location: PA
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Well, the beads that cracked on me were made with a base of Uroboros (coe 96), then I added a frit blend (also coe 96), which I raked around and then I put the lead crystal frit (coe 96) on top. I didn’t use any silver or anything else. They all cracked! Since this was a request, I really needed to make the beads! So, I ended up using Silver Clear frit instead and there wasn’t any cracking. So, I’m pretty sure it was the lead crystal frit. It shouldn’t have been a problem, but it was. Since all glasses have a range in coes, it’s very likely that the batch of clear frit I tried really wasn’t a coe of 96 – though it is advertised to be. Batch inconsistency really sucks and I’ve noticed it in all the glasses (many coes) I’ve used over the years. Lauscha and Check glass tend to be worst in this regard.
Candy
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2007-05-27, 6:03pm
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Formerly Travelin'gal
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Cajun Country
Posts: 14,359
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Oh Lynn what a bummer. I use to make a LOT of frit based beads with rubino flowers on them. The only ones I had problems with cracking were ones with colors of red, oranges, yellow, and sometimes purple frit. I did tent to use a lot of the reduction frits, which seemed to be more forgiving.
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2007-06-01, 5:52am
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where is that UPS man?
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Join Date: Mar 01, 2007
Location: behind you.....
Posts: 1,485
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Okay,
I just had a customer tell me the beads were cracked hole to hole. Split in half. I know that is something I am doing but can't remember. Help, help
Deb
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Deb
SERIOUS GLASS HO
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scorpion and m15,m10, tanked O2, 1 bitchin sound system
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2007-06-01, 6:14am
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debsglass
Okay,
I just had a customer tell me the beads were cracked hole to hole. Split in half. I know that is something I am doing but can't remember. Help, help
Deb
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That is a thermal crack - it sounds like you are not reheating the bead enough before you put it in the kiln.
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Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2007-06-01, 3:30pm
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Lizard rescue squad
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Join Date: Apr 02, 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beadgoodies
Well, the beads that cracked on me were made with a base of Uroboros (coe 96), then I added a frit blend (also coe 96), which I raked around and then I put the lead crystal frit (coe 96) on top. I didn’t use any silver or anything else. They all cracked! Since this was a request, I really needed to make the beads! So, I ended up using Silver Clear frit instead and there wasn’t any cracking. So, I’m pretty sure it was the lead crystal frit. It shouldn’t have been a problem, but it was. Since all glasses have a range in coes, it’s very likely that the batch of clear frit I tried really wasn’t a coe of 96 – though it is advertised to be. Batch inconsistency really sucks and I’ve noticed it in all the glasses (many coes) I’ve used over the years. Lauscha and Check glass tend to be worst in this regard.
Candy
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************
The problem is that many of the so-called 96 COE glasses are not 96 COE at all. (Reichenbach, Kugler, and Zimmermann, for example.) And even if glasses actually are 96 (or 104 - or any other number), that alone is not a guarantee that two different ones will fit each other. Compatibility depends not only on COE but on the setting point of the glass as well. Two glasses with the same COE but different setting points can be incompatible due to the fact that quoted COE's are normally only measured from 0-300C or 20-300C. (That is if they are measured at all, which they often are not.) The difference in expansion in the missing temperature range from 300C to the setting point can make a big difference in compatibility.
As Deanna mentioned, reds, oranges, and yellows can also be problems, primarily because their chemistry is considerably different than most other glasses. These glasses can change expansion the longer they are worked and usually have a quite different setting point than more "normal" glasses we use.
Even a lot of suppliers are basically clueless about this. So just because your lead crystal was called "96 COE" was no guarantee that it would fit your other glass.
Brad
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