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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2010-06-12, 6:36am
J-Jo J-Jo is offline
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Default Bees Wax

Hi everyone. I am a complete newbie. I love working with the glass just am not very good at it yet. I do have a question though. I went to a craft fair and there was a lady selling some amazing pendants. We were talking to her just picking her brain really. She mentioned that she used bees wax for bead release and would never use anything different. How does that work?lol How does the wax not melt in the flame? I am very interested in this as I have always had a problem with bead release.
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  #2  
Old 2010-06-12, 11:05am
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Were her pendants glass? I know that sounds like a silly question but there is no way you can make glass anything on a bees wax bead release.
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  #3  
Old 2010-06-12, 11:30am
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Seriously...the stuff would burn off pretty quick in the flame.

Though now I'm tempted to see if I have any bent mandrels and give it a try since I have a block of it out there for my jacks.
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  #4  
Old 2010-06-12, 11:37am
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Some peeps dip their sculpting tools in bees wax. They swear it helps glide the tool and prevent it from sticking to the glass. I can not imagine using it as a bead release though.

Just my thoughts.

Sue
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Old 2010-06-12, 11:38am
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I'm thinking about it, and there *is* a slight chance it would work, but only if you never put the mandrel itself into the flame. You use wax on the jacks to help lubricate them, and the rule is, like the tweezers, don't put the tools directly in the flame. So if you had a coating of wax on there, it might be enough if you were lay the molten glass onto the metal just to the outside of the flame.

It would smell lovely regardless
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  #6  
Old 2010-06-12, 11:54am
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I'm not buying it
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  #7  
Old 2010-06-12, 12:13pm
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Default bees wax

PMC Beads possibly???
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  #8  
Old 2010-06-12, 12:14pm
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I was thinking PMC too.
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  #9  
Old 2010-06-12, 12:47pm
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That's what I was thinking too. I've seen some PMC beads that you would swear were glass, till you picked them up.
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  #10  
Old 2010-06-12, 12:50pm
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I use beeswax on my brass marver and Val Cox Marver - it
keeps the beads rolling smoothly. Other than that, I would
never dream of using it as a bead release. It just wouldn't
work in the flame.
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  #11  
Old 2010-06-12, 1:46pm
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Thats wha I didn' understand was how it didn't melt right off. Not to worried about it now though as I found a really cool bead store not far from where i live at all. Plus it is where the southern flames meet monthly!!!! The lady there that does the glass classes there had a lot of helpful hints so I am going to give them a ry tonight!!!
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  #12  
Old 2010-06-12, 3:02pm
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there is some type of wax based release - I have some somewhere, although never got around to trying it out. I have seen it in use though - one of our main glass suppliers here was using it when they demoed at shows.

It is pretty cool because you don't need to clean the bead hole afterwards. Just use a permanent mandrel (some sort of high temp wire embedded into a boro rod I think) and pull the bead off whilst still hot.

The wax I have has something added to it though - graphite I assume as it is all black. Definitely wax based though as you have to heat the mandrel and melt it into the solid release to coat it.

Plowder and Thompson here in the UK sold the kits for making up the mandrel and the release - don't know if they still sell it, they don't seem overly keen on getting their business online!

Emma
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  #13  
Old 2010-06-12, 10:14pm
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i love the smell of bees wax. i keep all my coated. i'm not buyin the bees wax/ relaese thing. i've had other lampworkers tell me untruthes in the attempt to hide their "secret".
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  #14  
Old 2010-06-12, 10:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berningglass View Post
i love the smell of bees wax. i
keep all my coated. i'm not buyin the bees wax/ relaese thing.
i've had other lampworkers tell me untruthes in the attempt to
hide their "secret".
All my mandrels are made of 24k gold, and coated with diamonds.

And my dogs farts smell like roses.
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Old 2010-06-13, 12:04am
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while beeswax smell nice, burning wax smells awful and catches in your throat. at the temps needed it would vapourise
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  #16  
Old 2010-06-13, 5:03am
J-Jo J-Jo is offline
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Thanks everyone. We finally found some bead release that works. We had tried three different kinds and got horrible results. So yesterday we tried just one more kind before giving itt up and found one that is amazing! I am thinking about getting the beeswax to try with the pulling tools. I love this site!!!
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Old 2010-06-13, 5:13am
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OK J-Jo spill the beans please.
Which bead release is working for you? And which didn't? If you don't want to diss any product in public please pm me with the details. Thanks!
I'm coming to the end of my Bucket o Mud and need to find another release.

I love this site too. . .
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  #18  
Old 2010-06-13, 5:39am
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The first I had was the stuff hat came with the cheap hobby lobby kit (mistake I know I have a hot head now). Then I used something called Pink Slipper and was told it was the best there was. The price said so to.LOL Still couldn't get it to work. Yesterday when we went to the glass shop I got is Bead Seperator by Frants. I will never use anything else.
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Old 2010-06-13, 6:04am
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  #20  
Old 2010-06-13, 6:29am
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Ah well I found my kit!

There is no branding or anything, just something put together by Plowden and Thompson (english glass rod manufacturers - who have been teaching beadmaking etc a long while)

They call it Quick Bead Release Wax and you use a tungsten mandren with it. As I said though, I am sure it is just graphite suspended in wax as it is black.

Instructions tell you to heat tungsten rod and push it into the wax, burn off excess wax from rod, form bead as usual. Let bead cool enough to hold with tweezers, then heat the tungsten rod either side of the bead with a small oxy flame until the rod is glowing red. Remove bead with tweezers and into the kiln, blanket or whatever.
The instructions also claim that with practise, this method will "save time and the mess associated with other bead release agents!"

Somehow the idea of tweezering off my hot beads scared me so I never have got around to trying it out yet.

But just so you know, wax-based releases definitely DO exist!

If they are any good or not, well that is a whole new discussion.

Emma
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  #21  
Old 2010-06-13, 7:00am
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Thanks J-Jo.
Emma I searched the Plowden and Thompson website and couldn't find the Quick Bead Release Wax entry.
I'd be interested to have a look anyway.
I have two tungsten picks that I could probably use if it worked for me.
The idea of not having to remember to dip and dry - and especially spend ages cleaning out beads does appeal.
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Old 2010-06-13, 7:32am
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P&T 'w website is next to useless. I mean, they are a glass rod manufacturer of very long standing in the UK but don't do anything to promote their products online to us UK beadmakers. I can only suggest you email them and ask about it.

I don't know if the tungsten rod bit is necessary or if it could also be used with regular mandrels.

I will have a play next time I am in the shed.

Emma
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  #23  
Old 2010-06-13, 8:00am
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I may or may not do that.
I like things handed to me on a plate
I'm not too innovative and will probably stick to regular type bead release.
Who do you get yours from Emma and which brand do you like.
If I could get one I like this side of the pond that would be good.
I'm considering getting the materials and mixing up my own.
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  #24  
Old 2010-06-13, 9:50am
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I bought it from them ages ago - never even used it as the instructions were pretty poor and I am mentally lazy. So, I don't use this release, I was just saying it does exist for those who doubted.

I have seen it being used though, so I know it works and it looks a way more convenient in many ways. Just would be hard to get my head around such a different way of doing things. I still think it is whatever else is in the wax that acts as the release, the wax is obviously just a carrier for that.

Like you, I like things easy to order and since P&T don't have an online store, they don't get my business. If they ever get their act together and get an online store, I would order up more of their glass though - because it would be nice to buy British and they have some lovely colours.

In respect to the wax, my best guess is just bees wax and graphite powder, but I am no chemist and for all I know, that might blow up in your face! So best to research it a little more first in respect to what ingredients are in it!

Emma
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Old 2010-06-13, 9:58am
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They don't have half of what they sell on their website. I have their pdf catalogue from earlier in the year (you can get it by emailing them and asking) and it has the stuff listed:

Clean Bead Kit to create a long lasting mandrel with a handle
1 x clean bead (mandrel release) 1 x Pyrex tube for handle 1 x piece of tungsten sealing glass 1 x tungsten rod 1/16” £14.64 BETL141
(There's also a 3/32" kit for £16.77)

and the release on its own:

New Clean Bead Mandrel Release
To create a bead that does not need the hole cleaning out (for use with a tungsten mandrel) £9.45
BETL136

I'm definitely not convinced it would be less fuss than normal bead release though! I use Fusion that I get from Tuffnell's.
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Last edited by Kalorlo; 2010-06-13 at 10:01am.
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  #26  
Old 2010-06-13, 12:26pm
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Well, I must say I agree.

But I first saw it being used by Martin at one of the shows - I have no idea if he still uses it or not, now he sells other normal releases I would imagine he would demo those methods when doing shows etc.

The thing that put me off mostly is having to make the permanent mandrel in the first place - scared of doing it all skewy! Besides which, the boro glass included in the kit was coloured and my glasses are only rated for clear. I have other clear boro now so I can use that, but still apprehensive!

I think I will test it out when I am feeling brave, but I expect I will stick to my Alice's bead release!

Emma
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Old 2010-06-13, 2:04pm
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I'm a fan of Fusion & of the wonderful stuff that Ed makes @ Playing with Fire Studios (someday he's gonna sell it )
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Old 2010-06-13, 2:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunamoonshadow View Post
I'm a fan of Fusion & of the wonderful stuff that Ed makes @ Playing with Fire Studios (someday he's gonna sell it )
I was about to add my plug for Fusion. Best stuff ever,
and I've tested out pretty much everything out there
(in my own anal-retentive way of finding the best release.
I still have jars and jars of all the other stuff - but LOVE
Fusion).
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  #29  
Old 2010-06-13, 2:58pm
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Fusion rocks my world, too. I did add all my other jars to a half-empty Fusion jar to use them up, but that was called cleaning... I think the Fusion bullied them into submission, the mix still worked fine.
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Old 2010-06-13, 9:42pm
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This has me wondering-but likely nothing that helps.
When you do pottery you lay down a wax on the parts that you do not want the
glaze to stick to. Like the bottom of mugs, etc. It is a blue white color, liquid and
you could dip your mandrels in it. However I do not have any left or I would try it.
I have only bought it in gallon containers so do not know if it comes in smaller sizes.
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