off mandrel

ukiacat · #1 2005-12-22, 9:53pm

Hi;

I'm wondering if anyone knows of off-mandrel tutorials that are on the web or would someone be willing to explain the basics? Lavendar Creek posted a wonderful little mouse today in the Gallery today [great job!] and I've seen the one that inspired her [Lenda's] and I've seen mice and rabbits by Lauren Stump. I watched Jim Smircich do a goddess once. He used two glass rods and no mandrel. He didn't call it an off-mandrel technique. Is that what is was? I'm wondering if that's how the mice and other off-mandrel animals are done also. If you do it, how did you learn?

Thanks
Jennifer

Cindy2 · #2 2005-12-23, 5:19am

Hi Jennifer,

This is an off mandrel tutorial that I know of:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...=mandrel+Emily

Takes practice but worth it!

Cindy

ukiacat · #3 2005-12-23, 7:00pm

Thanks Cindy. Are there any off-mandrel tutorials for animals? I'll check Wet Canvas later. I'm thinking I just need to pull out my dentil tools and melt some glass on a rod and try doing a sculpture of some sort. Learning that way is probably best anyway. I wasn't sure how you get the sculpture off the rod but Lavander Creek mentioned forcep marks on her mouse....I'll just go for it and see what new species I create

Melodie · #4 2005-12-24, 12:16am

This may be more then you ever wanted to know.

But … off mandrel (funny, I always called it off-hand) work is sort of my passion.

My lampwork is probably 90% off mandrel, that’s why I am “Hole challenged” in my signature. I really can’t help you with animals since flowers and such are more my style but I can tell you that it does take some practice. But … if you REALLY have a desire to do this then you can do it. I think I am more comfortable with off mandrel work because that is how I started torching. I began as a fuser and wanted to add torched elements to my fused work so I was doing simple off mandrel work well before I ever tried a bead. I don’t really know of any tutorials though, sorry.

My best advice would be to buy the cheapest glass you can (so you don’t feel guilty) and just play, play, play. I still throw away half of what I make, some because I am just experimenting on how to achieve a certain look, technique or color and the rest because it looks like crap. I have yet to take my first lampwork class so for me it is all about experimenting.

I can give you some tips on how I would approach this new venture but I’m sure everyone works differently. Decide on one thing that you want to make and then look at it as a sculptor would by breaking it down into parts. Look at the shape of the body; it’s the biggest area so this is likely where you would begin. Then look at the shape of the head and what it would take to achieve that shape. So on and so on. It’s a bunch of baby steps that lead to the overall picture. The most important thing is to NOT get discouraged.

I actually ran across my first sculptural rose a few weeks ago and OMG!

If you have small parts that go on the larger piece (such as legs) you can also make those first and keep them warm on a hot plate or in a kiln while you work on the body. When you need them then all you have to do is to torch where they are going to be connected. Have to admit that I’m guessing here as far as animals go but I definitely do a good bit of floral work in this method. It takes some preplanning so you know what small components to make before getting started on the larger piece.

After you make something look at it really good and see what went wrong and then try to figure out why it went wrong. You will learn more from your mistakes then you ever would if everything went perfect the first time around. Then try to figure out what you could try different to make that area look better … and then go try it out.

It’s really all about the parts. Break it into individual parts and study the shapes. To start out just concentrate on those shapes, not the whole picture. Then work on pulling it all together. Don’t worry about things like the eyes or mouth to begin with; you’ll learn those details when you gain experience. Also, the more you keep trying to achieve one specific piece (say the mouse) the better you will get at creating it.

I know it’s not what you are looking for but these are some of my beginning flowers and an etched leaf I made a few years ago. I don’t have a picture of that first rose though and not sure I would be brave enough to post it if I did. Haha Most of my work is fused onto bases that I have previously created by fusing methods.

lripster · #5 2005-12-24, 4:01am

Ooh, Melodie, awesome information. I, too, have never taken a class and have only watched two others on the torch in person. I love sculptural stuff and feel I play more with that than anything else. You have given some great tips and I will definitely try some of them. Namely, making the pieces separately. Now that I have a kiln (YIPPEE) I feel a new freedom in how I work. Thanks for the great tips AND inspiration!! LOVE the dewdrop leaf!!

Cindy2 · #6 2005-12-24, 10:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukiacat

Thanks Cindy. Are there any off-mandrel tutorials for animals? I'll check Wet Canvas later. I'm thinking I just need to pull out my dentil tools and melt some glass on a rod and try doing a sculpture of some sort. Learning that way is probably best anyway. I wasn't sure how you get the sculpture off the rod but Lavander Creek mentioned forcep marks on her mouse....I'll just go for it and see what new species I create

You ask about how you get the sculpture off the rod - You'll see in the tutorial but briefly, I usually transfer between glass rods and attach a smaller and smaller bit of glass to the sculpture. The final step for me is to hold it using 12 inch tweezers (without the grooves in it). The trick is not to get it too hot so you don't get marks. I don't use hemostats, don't like them much but mine lock and I find them cumbersome to use.

You're right, practice practice practice! Use colors at first that hold the heat longer but aren't gooey while they hold the heat (ivory, coral are gooey while they hold the heat). Use transparent black, root beer, transparent blue, cobalt, yellow (lets you see the heat because it turns red when hot). I find white and pinks aren't good to start with because they cool off fast and the pink is fussy and will lose its color with all of the heating and re-heating that you will be doing.

Good luck!
Cindy

ukiacat · #7 2005-12-24, 1:15pm

There are some very helpful tips in this thread. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. Wow, Melodie, those are impressive flowers and your tutorial will help me out. I love to try new things and I do work at not allowing disappointment to detour me. I'd never be making encased florals if I'd let that happen. The hard part for me [besides the shaping] will be the preplanning... but it makes sense to do so. Cindy, your suggestion to work with thinner and thinner rod attachments is a good tip. I won't have much time at the torch for a few days but I'll post my attempt after I try it. It will be good for a laugh I am sure. I'll try to post a warning so when you see it, you won't snort whatever your drinking onto your computer screen.

Merry Christmas

serenabeads9 · #8 2005-12-25, 11:42am

Jennifer,

Go to http://technicalvideorental.com/rental_7.html and take a look at the Lewis Wilson tape series, he has a 5 part series that is great for off mandrel animals, the Introduction and small items is really all you need the other 3 are Fantasy, aquatic and wildlife, I think and those deal with big sculptural items.

another fabulous series is the Bill Rasmussen tapes I learned tons from those and still watch them regularly! He is definitely the authority on those little glass sculptures as he was "THE" Disney glassblower for many years!

of course they both use pyrex, but the techniques transfer to soft glass pretty easily.

Happy Holidays!

LavenderCreek · #9 2005-12-25, 1:26pm

Hi Jennifer, sorry, I didn't see this thread until just now or I would have commented. You got some great tips though, I learned something from them too! The mouse was my first off mandrel piece so I have alot to learn. I did learn alot just making it though. With the mouse, you don't need to make seperate pieces since the whole thing is pretty compact. I began by making a 3/4" diameter maria and just built the mouse on top of that. You can see it in the picture below. Taking it off of the glass rod is the hardest part for me and that is why I ended up with tooth marks. I used a large pair of piercing forceps to hold the mouse while I burned off. I don't have any hot fingers but I would sure like to get some after that experience! Practice, practice, practice, I think that is really the answer and that is what I intend to do

LavenderCreek · #10 2005-12-25, 1:36pm

Oh, I meant to say that I learned by just grabbing two rods and going for it. I also found a large picture of a mouse that I used as a visual aid. I shaped with dental tools.

I tried a snail yesterday. About an hour into it, the rod holding the piece shocked and broke about an inch down and the whole thing landed on the table (luckily not into my lap). So defintiely play with cheaper glass and becareful not to accidentally heat the holding rod where it might be cool and shocky! Cover your lap with something just in case

Cindy2 · #11 2005-12-26, 4:19am

Teresa! Lovely rabbit! Your first attempts don't look like first attempts! Wonderful!

Here's a great tip I learned from another beadmaker, put down a fiber blanket under your torch so when the rod snaps like that, you don't lose everything! You can pick it up and keep going!

Cindy

LavenderCreek · #12 2005-12-26, 5:23am

Hi Cindy...LMAO...er, it's a mouse...LOL! See I do need to keep working on it

Thank you for that great tip, I never would of thought of that, and I am sure it will happen again!

ukiacat · #13 2005-12-26, 11:05am

Teresa, I can definetely tell your sculpture is a mouse rather than a rabbit....maybe Cindy was confused by only seeing the back view...whereas I saw the mouse from several angles when you posted it in the Gallery last week. Or maybe she's never opened her washing machine and found a mouse staring up at her

so she's not as familiar with them as I am. Thanks for responding to this thread.

Thank you all for these great tips and the links too. I'll play and see what happens....but first I'll go dig out the leather apron my husband got for me last summer. And then maybe I'll look into the videos. I'm mainly addicted to encasing florals but I do love to try new things.

Cindy2 · #14 2005-12-28, 2:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LavenderCreek

Hi Cindy...LMAO...er, it's a mouse...LOL! See I do need to keep working on it

Thank you for that great tip, I never would of thought of that, and I am sure it will happen again!

Oooppsss! I took a quick look at the ears and from that angle they looked long but the tail obviously is a mouse! I sort of feel like one of those people who go up to a newborn dressed in pink and says, he's so cute! What's his name! Blush

Let me edit my last post - what a lovely mouse!

Cindy

LavenderCreek · #15 2005-12-29, 3:41am

LOL! That's ok Cindy

Maybe I'll try a bunny next...I seem to already have the nack...lol

ukiacat · #16 2006-01-02, 10:33pm

Okay, if nothing else, maybe this will inspire other people to try off mandrel glass. I'll be brave and show the piece that I did. I grabbed a fat rod of sage, I forgot about the tip to use cheap glass first. I tried to make a cat. It went so badly that I decided to melt it and pull the lump of glass into some stringer but as I melted it, and tilted it, it became a frog. A deformed frog. A frog that cracked and healed. Poor frog. It's sitting on my shelf glaring at me. I am sure that kissing it will not help it.

Gelly · #17 2006-01-03, 1:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukiacat

Okay, if nothing else, maybe this will inspire other people to try off mandrel glass. I'll be brave and show the piece that I did. I grabbed a fat rod of sage, I forgot about the tip to use cheap glass first. I tried to make a cat. It went so badly that I decided to melt it and pull the lump of glass into some stringer but as I melted it, and tilted it, it became a frog. A deformed frog. A frog that cracked and healed. Poor frog. It's sitting on my shelf glaring at me. I am sure that kissing it will not help it.

How adorable! He isn't deformed at all!!! Now, if you were still trying to call it a cat, then I would have to agree.... lol! I love your frog!

LavenderCreek · #18 2006-01-03, 2:31am

Jennifer, he's wonderful! Nice work! I think the first one always teaches alot, the next ones will be easier and you'll have more of an idea of what you should do and when you should do it. That's how it was for me anyway.

Cindy2 · #19 2006-01-03, 5:46am

Very nice, Jennifer! It's hard to believe that's your first off mandrel/off hand work! Congratulations and do more!

hotblubonnet · #20 2006-06-10, 12:44pm

The frog that I just made a few days ago wasn't off mandrel...he was kind of riding a long bead that looked like a log...but when I showed him to my husband he said it looked like a "Three Mile Island" frog...it had extra limbs from when my stringer got out of control. lol!

blancheandguy · #21 2006-06-13, 12:18pm

My husband and I are always drooling over Dustin Tabor's off-mandrel pendants. We'd love to figure out how the heck he does that. Any advice?

PaulaD · #22 2006-06-14, 8:59am

No but he is teaching here next year so save your pennies. We are only 70 miles North of NYC!! Paula