A simple press idea for da shiny bit :)

[pam]

You know, reading this thread I just have to laugh and be somewhat pleased that our artists are finally realizing what can be done to a vendor who takes the time to develop something only to have it copied cheaply. Now, before you all jump on me, I actually don't think Andrew did anything wrong. I think his apparatus is nothing like JM's tool and doesn't compete with his at all. That's not what I'm talking about. It is nice, however, to see people in this community standing up for the rights of others that are not glass beadmakers.

Many years ago Gentleman A designed a kiln that was completely unique and marketed it quite successfully to glass beadmakers for whom it was uniquely designed. This kiln used top-of-the-line materials and was reasonably priced for what it was. Sometime later another "gentleman", we'll call him Gentleman B, visited the booth where Gentleman A was displaying and selling this kiln and while A was busy with a customer, B took out a sketch pad and proceeded to open the kiln in such a way that he was able to sketch the way it was configured. Months later B came out with a kiln that was identical to A's kiln except that the materials used were cheaper, and thus he charged less than A was charging for his kiln. Guess what happened? A large preponderance of beadmakers have bought and still buy B's kiln. "A" stayed in business, but the percentage of beadmakers who bought his more expensive, better made kiln was small. Enter into the scene Gentleman C, who saw the kiln at a show and a few weeks later called A to ask kindly if he would share what materials he used and where he bought them, etc., so C could build one for himself that was somewhat larger, but based on the same idea. A, being a kindly, sharing person, gave C the information. A month later C was selling his larger kiln using the the information gained from A. Still, A continued to manufacture his kiln selling to those who were looking for quality. C eventually went on to make other kilns based on other designs and is quite successful. B and C are still in business today, while A has finally succombed to the bead world's ability to tolerate copies of anything but beads.

We as glass beadmakers have a few very innovative people who develop something that is really great for us. My hope is that we support these designers/inventors who strive to make our life easier and who are just as susceptible to those who want to infringe on their designs as we beadmakers are.

[2xMI]

Thanks for that historical perspective, Pam. It's good food for thought.

Mimi

[tgslampwork]

I was going to stay out of this...but I rarely keep my lips sealed.

A friend of mine was at my place quite a while ago while I was coring beads the old fashioned way. Right away he said "You know, there's an easier way to do that." He doesn't know a thing about beads or jewelry - but I guess he used to 'play' with trains. He told me he used an arbor press for riveting the wheels, I think. Me? I didn't even know what an arbor press was, until almost a year later when I bought the Jim Moore press!

I think Jim Moore makes tools that are creme of the crop - and anyone who uses them knows that. There will always be people like me who want the best of the best, and the ease of not having to 'do it myself' -- and then there will be the people who simply cannot justify the price knowing they can 'do it themselves.' I would actually be interested to know how Jim Moore came up with the idea of riveting with an arbor press...I wonder if he played with trains

[ginko]

Pam, if Jim Moore had created the arbor press, or even a significant portion of the bead tool, then I could see the analogy of your example. Jim has chosen to fine tune a tool that is available in the open market. That he choose to modify an arbor press that did not come with dies, and a drilled shank, does not mean there are not arbor presses already on the market that do essentially the same thing, granted, not as elegantly.

My aggravation about all this is that people like Andrew, who made a tool nothing like JM, gets whacked because anything that resembles another method of core lining is *gasp* taking away from JM. The argument can be made that JM copied an existing arbor press concept by Palmgren http://www.amazon.com/Palmgren-61051.../dp/B00068U7QS . Just because something exists in the context of the glass world, does not make it an unique design.

As someone recently said, where is/was all the hoopla when the brass tools began to be knocked off? It seems protectionism leans toward favorites and is not an overall practice.

[pam]

Ginko, perhaps you missed this line in my post, "I think his apparatus is nothing like JM's tool and doesn't compete with his at all." Of course that's just my opinion and since I own neither and am interested in owning neither, so my opinion is worth nothing.

The point of my story, which in no way relates to this specific event, is, I do find it admirable that at least beadmakers are beginning to look at our vendors and say something when they believe they are being wronged. Whether the persons speaking up are right or wrong is irrelevant to what I am talking about. We as beadmakers in a very close community need to start supporting those who are bringing us quality materials to use that we have never had before and stop flocking to the cheapest thing we can find, which only spurs those who build cheaply, as in Gentleman B in my story. We certainly don't want our customers looking to buy as cheaply as possible, or else they would be supporting the factories instead of us as artists. We want them to see the quality of our work and admire the innovation and ingenuity and hard work and artistic spirit that goes into our work, just as we should do to those who make tools for us.

[Gila]

I’m here again to address the importance of tone and sharing.

The positive, motivated communication in this thread was ruptured by an aggressive, condescending attack. This was not a respectful difference of opinion. The allusion to theft, questioning of morals and judgment, assumption of greed...in public. This sets one up for a face-saving altercation (knock-down drag-out) or withdrawal with silence being akin to agreement.

I was, and remain troubled by the tone (TONE!?!?), and the message: It is NOT OK to share ideas when there is the potential for someone to maybe be impacted (financially and negatively) but it is OK to be abusive and rile up many, and then to say: ‘enough, be quiet, I have the right to state my opinion’ when these negative energies are reflected back rather than absorbed. Rights come with responsibilities.

I think that the potential for positive impact by sharing tool-making ideas far outweighs the negative. How many glass bead makers could benefit? Would these jerry-riggers eventually increase Jim Moore’s profits by ordering his different sized flaring heads? Might he learn of another U.S. based or Australian manufacturer as a source for his arbor presses?

Why the repeated assumption that we are cheap, rather than resourceful, when we try to use what we have and move toward less consumption? My quality, used (up-cycled) arbor press was made in the U.S., not China with its record of abysmal human rights and environmental degradation.

Now where can I find a pair of those asbestos panties?

Gila

[theglasszone]

Originally Posted by Gila

...Now where can I find a pair of those asbestos panties?
Gila

So well said, Gila~I think I love you~~~~ And I have a spare pair, but I suspect you don't need them!!!

Hugs,
DeAnne

[angelinabeadalina]

Originally Posted by Gila

I’m here again to address the importance of tone and sharing.

The positive, motivated communication in this thread was ruptured by an aggressive, condescending attack. This was not a respectful difference of opinion. The allusion to theft, questioning of morals and judgment, assumption of greed...in public. This sets one up for a face-saving altercation (knock-down drag-out) or withdrawal with silence being akin to agreement.

I was, and remain troubled by the tone (TONE!?!?), and the message: It is NOT OK to share ideas when there is the potential for someone to maybe be impacted (financially and negatively) but it is OK to be abusive and rile up many, and then to say: ‘enough, be quiet, I have the right to state my opinion’ when these negative energies are reflected back rather than absorbed. Rights come with responsibilities.

Exactly.

I think that the potential for positive impact by sharing tool-making ideas far outweighs the negative. How many glass bead makers could benefit? Would these jerry-riggers eventually increase Jim Moore’s profits by ordering his different sized flaring heads? Might he learn of another U.S. based or Australian manufacturer as a source for his arbor presses?

Why the repeated assumption that we are cheap, rather than resourceful, when we try to use what we have and move toward less consumption? My quality, used (up-cycled) arbor press was made in the U.S., not China with its record of abysmal human rights and environmental degradation.

Very good point.

Now where can I find a pair of those asbestos panties?

Gila

Not a clue where ya can find asbestos panties, but I don't think ya have a need for them...your points were made in a nice manner and added something to the discussion. Besides, I'll bet those suckers would be awfully darn itchy!

[pittypat]

Gila, where did you find an arbor press made in the US? I would like to find one. I was really upset to find China on the side of mine.
Thanks, pat

Well, nevermind!!! I couldn't stand it...bought Dave's...will have to garage sale what I have later...thanks anyway.

[Kalera]

There actually was a lot of controversy over the brass tools, but threads discussing it on the predominant forum at the time were quickly locked or hidden. We are fortunate that is not the case here.

Originally Posted by ginko

Pam, if Jim Moore had created the arbor press, or even a significant portion of the bead tool, then I could see the analogy of your example. Jim has chosen to fine tune a tool that is available in the open market. That he choose to modify an arbor press that did not come with dies, and a drilled shank, does not mean there are not arbor presses already on the market that do essentially the same thing, granted, not as elegantly.

My aggravation about all this is that people like Andrew, who made a tool nothing like JM, gets whacked because anything that resembles another method of core lining is *gasp* taking away from JM. The argument can be made that JM copied an existing arbor press concept by Palmgren http://www.amazon.com/Palmgren-61051.../dp/B00068U7QS . Just because something exists in the context of the glass world, does not make it an unique design.

As someone recently said, where is/was all the hoopla when the brass tools began to be knocked off? It seems protectionism leans toward favorites and is not an overall practice.

[bgurden]

copying inadvertantly happens all the time. you just dont realize it. took a class with leah fairbanks at bead and button. in the class she states that she is very careful when she is looking at others beads on etsy, ebay whereever. she finds that she tends encorporate what she sees into her beads. since she is so wellknown that would be noted immediately. she said that when she went to hawaii when she came back all her beads had a hawaiian influence.
shelly d- i appreciate your frustration with the topic but can ya be a bit less patronizing. "give it up already" "PLEEEZE" "will people grow up" is just plain rude! as my momma said if ya cant say something nicely dont say it at all!

[ShellyD]

Originally Posted by bgurden

copying inadvertantly happens all the time. you just dont realize it. took a class with leah fairbanks at bead and button. in the class she states that she is very careful when she is looking at others beads on etsy, ebay whereever. she finds that she tends encorporate what she sees into her beads. since she is so wellknown that would be noted immediately. she said that when she went to hawaii when she came back all her beads had a hawaiian influence.
shelly d- i appreciate your frustration with the topic but can ya be a bit less patronizing. "give it up already" "PLEEEZE" "will people grow up" is just plain rude! as my momma said if ya cant say something nicely dont say it at all!

Hi there,

Well I had taken my own advise and "given it up already" until you felt the need to drag me all the way back in.

I stand by what I say in that I honestly believe one cannot copy inadvertantly. To copy there has to be intent and to be inadvertant would mean the act is unintentional and it just doesn't sit well with me. Yes, we can be influenced. And glancing through photo's/pictures or even taking a holiday is going to influence your artwork to a degree. But for me copying is done very intentionally by whomever is doing it to achieve financial gain or whatever they hope to gain out of it. That person would have to sit with that item in front of them whether it is the original or a picture or photo of it and copy it.

1. Copy noun 1. a thing made to look like another. 2. something written or typed out again from it's original form. 3. one of a number of specimens of the same book or newspaper etc. *five copies of the novel

2. Copy verb (copied, copying) 1. make a copy of something. 2. do the same as someone else; imitate.

Inadvertant adjective unintentional

Intentional adjective intended; deliberate, not accidental.

This has all been copied from the South African Oxford School Dictionary. It's all I have around at the moment.

I have taken a class with Leah Fairbanks myself. I really enjoyed it alot. Her work has influenced mine alot. Especially the thought that I now put into making stringers etc.

Yes I am tired of this topic because each of us has our own opinions about just what copying is and where to draw the line on it. Copying inadvertantly gives those who do it deliberately an excuse/an escape goat. Now they can say they did it inadvertantly. And I am sorry. Copying is copying and it is done deliberately.

Andrew was attacked deliberately and accused of deliberately copying another tool. Many have agreed that this is not the case. How he happened upon a similar solution is not copying inadvertantly either but coincedance. His trying to help others on a public board landed him in hot water with the copy police - who before typing never sit back and think about it for a while but jump in and mouth off. They quite happily without thinking about it attack someone elses integrity and character without thinking of the consequences of what they are doing.

These 'copy' threads are not doing this artform any good. The more 'wolf' is cried the less people are going to actually care when it does genuinely happen.

This post is not meant to be patronising or sarcastic in any manner but to reiterate my opinion on what I think about 'copying inadvertantly'.

Something I need to add.

I'd like to think that the zillions of encased flowers seen in the gallery regularly have been influenced by others and not copied inadvertantly. Once again - just my opinion.

As for the "PLEEEZE" that's me on my knees begging not being patronising as you suggest.
As for the " will people grow up" : As adults we know the consequences of our actions. Can we stop acting like children and behave like adults and think about the consequences our words and actions have on those on these boards.

I'm finished with this - I've had my say. Now I can only pray that I take my own advise and stay out of this once and for all.

[ginko]

Originally Posted by pam

Ginko, perhaps you missed this line in my post, "I think his apparatus is nothing like JM's tool and doesn't compete with his at all." Of course that's just my opinion and since I own neither and am interested in owning neither, so my opinion is worth nothing.

I did not miss that, which is why I am confused. If you realize Andrew's tool is nothing like JM's, and that the criticisms toward Andrew is the basis of this thread, why did you choose to post in this thread with what to me appears to be praise and encouragement of the ones attacking Andrew?

The point of my story, which in no way relates to this specific event, is, I do find it admirable that at least beadmakers are beginning to look at our vendors and say something when they believe they are being wronged.

Your mileage may vary, but I for one, have never seen the lampwork community hold back when they think they are wronged.

Whether the persons speaking up are right or wrong is irrelevant to what I am talking about.

I think when someone acts in the manner you describe it hurts both. Negative attack ads work in politics exactly in this manner--the truth is never enough to completely erase the negativity. If truth in the accusation is not an important factor, we would not have slander and libel laws. Many of the comments lately have not been exploratory, moreso, they have been accusations.

We as beadmakers in a very close community need to start supporting those who are bringing us quality materials to use that we have never had before and stop flocking to the cheapest thing we can find, which only spurs those who build cheaply, as in Gentleman B in my story. We certainly don't want our customers looking to buy as cheaply as possible, or else they would be supporting the factories instead of us as artists. We want them to see the quality of our work and admire the innovation and ingenuity and hard work and artistic spirit that goes into our work, just as we should do to those who make tools for us.

A quality, well-priced tool can hold up in this market with competition. Take the infinite rim molds made by Dan, for example. This community already supports a large number of those bringing us quality materials. That should not mean lower priced materials should not exist for those who cannot buy the high-priced quality tools. Back to the marble mold example, a cheap tool is available, as is a pretty-good tool, and the quality DG inifinite rim tool can be purchased. I fail to see the problem with that. A serious marble maker, or even beadmaker with a need for a mold, would buy the infinite rim tool, but they may have started out with an inexpensive mold just to see if they want to make shiny round objects. Should only those who purchase the DG infinite rim mold be allowed to make marbles?

I guess I am confused as to whether you are supporting the criticism of anyone who wants to discuss alternate ways to flare and flatten silver tubing in the bead hole by praising those in this thread, or if you are dropping your comments into this thread out of context.

[pam]

I'm sorry I am not being clearer, Ginko. What I have seen for many years is everyone hopping on the bandwagon for anything that comes out at a cheaper price regardless of quality, for instance the kiln I was speaking of. I am glad to see that people are now considering the effect on vendors of these items when they FEEL someone has copied and is taking away from the original designer. As I said before, and the reason I didn't come to this thread in the middle of the heated debate portion, is this has nothing to do with this particular incident as I personally believe that there should be the "do it yourself" alternatives, such as is in kilns, controllers, presses and now the bead coring tool.

As to why I posted at all, I think it is sometimes important to attempt to take a thread to a level where it is not personal attacks, but rather discusses ideas. I have found that sometimes when you take it away from the personal it is easier on everyone, but of course there are times when people are not willing to discuss a subject in that way, and I guess this is one of those times. Since I was not supporting "criticism of anyone who wants to discuss alternate ways to flare and flatten silver tubing in the bead hole", then according to your post, I must have just dropped my comments into this thread out of context. Sorry to have annoyed you by attempting to bring the thread to a level where issues are discussed without it being personal, for one person or against another.

As far as whether I praise the person who "attacked" Andrew, I praise the fact that she had the strength of character to stand up for something she believed in. I also praise Andrew for coming up with a do-it-yourself way of doing something, and sharing it, that can be horribly expensive if you just want to try it out for yourself. I think we have all learned something from this thread, and I hope it's not that we can never speak up about what we feel is a wrong-doing, even if later we are proved to be wrong. I think it's important in this community to feel free to express opinions, I just wish things could be discussed where it was not made into something personal each time.

Again, I truly apologize for obviously annoying you with my posts.

[J&M]

Originally Posted by ShellyD

Andrew was attacked deliberately and accused of deliberately copying another tool. His trying to help others on a public board landed him in hot water with the copy police - who before typing never sit back and think about it for a while but jump in and mouth off. They quite happily without thinking about it attack someone elses integrity and character without thinking of the consequences of what they are doing.

Well said.

Jack

[DaBatt]

Ginko - I agree with you 100%.

I also have to question why anyone would assume to think that this sort adaptation/conversion to a standard arbor press has not been done before, for application in the engineering industry - it has, with stainless dies machined to precisely flare diameters from minute to quite huge for years.

The only difference is that it was not done with the sole intention of marketing it as a bead liner tool.

When I approached & asked my cousin, who is a highly skilled machine engineer, last year what he could make for me to line beads the first thing he pointed me too was an arbor press & flaring dies, without having ever seen Jim Moores tool.
I had no idea what he was talking about, as he'd also suggested a few other types of presses as options at the time.
He told me where to go to buy an arbor press, I provided him with a bead & some copper tubing & we went from there.

I know I have a tool that isn't in anyway inferior in quality to Jim Moores - nor is it copied from his, yet it looks almost identical with only a couple of minor asthetic differences & hopefuly more versatility in the long run - as I am having some doming dies made for it.

If a small nipple is left on the end of the flaring dies - it makes for far easier hands free centering & for some reason seems to help the tubing to flare evenly & easily.... feel free to take that idea & run with it, it was something we learned while fiddling around to get the degree of the flare perfected

Innovation is often born of necessity & frequently leads to improvement.

[PaulaD]

Exactly. There is a big difference between out and out copying and innovating. At least to me there is!!
Paula

[DarleenMB]

I

am

so

sick

of

the

whole

"copying"

bs.

let it die. please.

[Rose Leslie]

I'm taking a little offence to this bashing. I can't afford the higher priced tools. So I don't think that is a big let down to any other tools. If I can afford a tool that is quality, that is hand made, then it is the only way to go.

Just because you send XXX amount of dollars for a tool doesn't mean it is of the highest quality. You might think so. I don't think so. I have had tools.

Stop bashing one person. Bash some one else. Geesh! Give people a break. I for one will support the underdog. Any day. Because there are people on here that think that the bigger the better is the best.

Karma is one heck of a pain in the backside when it hits. So every one watch out for it. One of these days the ole Karma will hit.

Just my honest opinion.

Now off to your corners please.

[RaymondMillbrae]

Oh my gosh...this is hilarious!!!!

As some of you may know, I am pretty new to lampworking. Actually, my DWP is the lampworker, and I am only her side kick. (Bat-Man needs Robin, Heckel needs Jeckel, Yogi Bear needs Boo-Boo, Bonnie needs Clyde, and DWP needs Papacito).

Anyhoo...being the "Inspector Gadget/McGiver" that I am (with a background in wood working, metal working, leathercrafting, welding, gunsmithing, etc)...I was already discussing with my DWP about the various lampworking tools on the market...and how to improve them, or build them cheaper. And "Lo and Behold"...look at the thread I came across.

Ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Oh my gosh...and to think I was contemplating posting photo's of my jerry-rigged tube press (arbor press and flaring set-up)...or of my personal "ghetto version" of the mandrel spinner...or of my home-made Lazy Susan mandrel/tool holder...or of my "shocky glass, fire-proof, book holder", etc.

Oh my gosh.

If I had not come across this thread, I would have been crucified without a trial!!!!!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

I guess it struck me as funny because when I came across this thread, I was actually in the process of posting my ideas and "short cuts" on this forum to save folks a few shekels. (I had already taken pictures and was filing them in a chronological manner which would make them understandable and easy to follow).

But as Roberto Duran said when fighting Sugar Ray Leonard, "No Mas. No Mas!"!!

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Let me jump in the middle of this "spat" and voice my opinion on this matter.(Ahhhhhhhh, man. I hope I'm not opening-up a can of worms).

As Americans, we have the right to voice our opinions and publically share our ideas. And if we come up with a "better mouse trap"...then that's the American way. We are a CAPITALIST SOCIETY, and as such, we differ from any other country in this world. (Where else in this world can you come into a country, be broke, not know a speck of the native language, and become a millionaire overnight)?

Only in America, my friends!

Our great/awesome Constitution provides us with a liberty that no other country has. And as "progressives" love to say, "Don't you dare censor my speech, and don't you dare censor my ideas"!! (No, I am not a "liberal". I am actually the opposite).

As a matter of fact, I once heard a Web-Meister called, "A Forum Nazi," for censoring someones opinions/ideas.

Anyhoo...along those lines, if JM does not have a very specific legal patent on his press...the sky's the limit. It's open season on "mouse traps". And believe you me (from a legal standpoint), if his patent was being copied, there would be heads a'rolling all over the place!

Like some folks stated, the arbor press and flaring tools are NOT a new invention. They have been around for years. And if there are folks walking around who have any type of mechanical inclination (like "moi"), then the connection is bound to happen...and new, cheaper toys, are inevitably gonna pop-up.

That's how I came up with the arbor press idea, even before I saw his tool or read this thread. I saw that folks were inserting silver and copper tubes in a bead and flaring the top, and said to myself, "Duh!! I can do that". (As a matter of fact, look at a GROMMET KIT and see where your mind will take you).

We think we are robbing people of their just due...but we're not. We are just following the natural progression of "the better mouse trap". Or like the Chinese exporters say, "It's a free trade world. You American's wanted it. You Americans voted for it. So now we are within our legal limits to create and provide it". (Sometimes our freedoms can be used against us).

Anyhoo...love it or hate it...it's just the way it is. If there's a need, and there's a cheaper way to get it, then Americans will be all over it in a heartbeat. (Everyone cries about Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or the huge super market nudging-out the "little guys". But yet, when no one is looking, we're the first ones sneaking in through the rear doors to get the best deals in town).

Let me share a conversation I had with my uncle...


Uncle: Are we not a capitalist society (free enterprise), where we can make millions of dollars and no one can force us to do what we don't want to do?

Me: Uh Huh.

Uncle: And because of that, don't we have the right to do what we want with our monies and business?

Me: Uh huh. (Yes...I am also aware that we can reel-in large companies, like MicroSoft, from dominating the market).

Uncle: And if I build a ga-bazillion dollar company, and choose to take it to India to further increase my profit...why not? It's my right.

Me: You are correct. That is America. And that is the way we work.

Uncle: So what is wrong with that?


He was right. I could not argue with him. That is the American way. We have that freedom, and there should be no restrictions...ever!!

But from a different point of view, in my personal way of thinking, we should have a loyalty to our country. We should try to keep the wheels spinning from within, even if it would be a detriment to our million dollar business. ("Why outsource to another country for cheaper labor, when it will cost a bit more to do it here, but it will benefit our own country")? Those were my personal thoughts. But in the end he was right. This is America, and he has every right to outsource to any 3rd world country if he so chooses. (Even if I adamantly opposed it, and thought it was totally unpatriotic to do so).

And along those lines, there are things which we think are morally wrong...but ultimately, they are not legally wrong.

The catch word is "legally"!!

And in this case (with the bead press), I do not think that any patent was infringed upon.

Yea...JM has fine-tuned and fashioned these tools specifically for the lampworking community. Yea...JM has brought the level of this tool to it's lampworking "Nth Degree". But as is the natural progression of mechanical minds, there will always be someone who can find a shortcut to make it cheaper...or better.

That is the human factor.

Furthermore, even if you post a detailed, step-by-step instruction on the web...not everyone is mechanically inclined to build it. Does everyone have access to a lathe, a drill press, woodworking tools, metal working tools, tap & die sets, metal parts, etc...?

What is a "No problemo" to me, will be a "Fogitabowdit/Doneventhinkabowdit" to someone else.

In the end, JM's tools and standards appeal to a certain market. And, of course, "jerry-rigging" appeals to another type of folk. (Don't you think a "jerry-rigger" looks at an original tool and thinks to himself..."Hey, I can make something like that...even better...and for cheaper")?!

OK...I'm coming to a close now. So let me be transparent with yall. Some of the tools I've designed, I've never seen before. I just came up with the ideas after seeing a need for them. (It's the McGiver in me). But some of the tools I've looked at, and thought to myself, "I can make that myself". (Yes...I took an original idea and ran with it).

So "Yea"...personally, I have taken ideas, tweeked them, and made them my own. But it's always been for my personal use, and NEVER exactly like the original. (Patents are VERY SPECIFIC. Even going into details about the type of materials used, the thickness of the materials used, the exact placement of screws, the exact cut and dimensions of the parts, etc...). I've also never sold them to anyone!

So if I were to place photo's of my "jerry rigs" on a forum, would I be wrong? Would I be stealing someone elses thunder? Would I be taking money out of their pocket?

No one really knows.

As an example, look at this thread. Some folks have purchased JM's tools, regardless of the instructions posted earlier. And then again, some folks are willing to throw caution to the wind and "go for it". (Try to make their own press). Who's to say that someone changed their mind and DID NOT purchase it from JM after coming across the online instructions and seeing how easy it was to build? Who's to say that the ones who were NOT going to purchase it from JM, would now be more inclined to purchase it from him after seeing this post, and seeing all the work and precision needed to build the press? (Not everyone has $60.00 to purchase materials and TRY to make a gadget...with no guarantee that it will ultimately work).

No one really knows. Your guess/speculation is as good as mine.

And in closing, I gotta admit, I love the way Pam thinks. I've read a couple of her other posts, and I admire her train of thought. (There are other folks who've impressed me as well, but she's on the top of my mind at this moment).

So, Pam...

...umm...

..."You go girl"!!

Ha ha ha ha ha!

This has been a cool thread. I'm glad I came across it, and chose to take the time (and effort) to read most of the posts.

Toodle-Loo, folks.

And don't forget to pray for our troops.

In Christ: Raymond

[ShellyD]

Raymond, cool post.

The lazy susan tool holder caught my eye. My tools alway end up AWOL on my work area. Think you're sitting on a gold mine there. I know I would love one

Later

[RaymondMillbrae]

Shelly,

there is already a woman here on this forum, who's hubby makes them. (Sorry, can't recall her name or avitar).

Anyways...there are many different routes you can take. You can make a custom wood one with strategically placed magnets (like I did), or you can go "ghetto" and just use a nice flower pot that matches your "decor".

All you really need is something called a "Lazy Susan Swivel" (they're dirt cheap), and you can go from there. Use your own imagination. Click HERE to see one source. (Low profile ones are better).

So get yourself a Lazy Susan Swivel, a nice ceramic pot to match your decor...and go for it.

Oh, oh, oh.

Wait a minute.

Don't do that!!!

Do you think by using these two common materials we'd be infringing on someone else's idea, and robbing them of their fair dues?

Ha ha ha ha ha!

Food for thought.

In Christ: Raymond

PS: I've decided against posting any of my ideas on this forum - even after being convinced that it is OK.
(If I have a clear concience before God about doing something, but yet someone else may disagree and stumble by me doing so, then I must not be the cause of that person stumbling...even though I am convinced that it is OK). Did you follow that?

So for all the folks that sent me personal PM's...sorry. I've chosen not to post my photos or ideas here. I'm finding out that no matter where you go, or what you say, someone will always oppose you. (It's already happened on another thread in this website). No matter what you say, or how you explain it - when someone's mind is made up...it's made up. After a while you gotta tell yourself, "Why am I expending energy talking to a wall"?

Nuff said. Thanks for your ears!

[ShellyD]

Thanks for all the great tips.

It sad that you feel you cannot share your ideas/pics. But understand entirely.

It will be an even sadder day when all the sharing stops completely - it is sad that lampworking is coming to this. There are some great ideas out there.

ttfn

[theglasszone]

Originally Posted by RaymondMillbrae

Shelly, there is already a woman here on this forum, who's hubby makes them. (Sorry, can't recall her name or avitar).

Raymond and Shelly~~~

That lovely woman, who herself is her avatar, is Melissa - Melzip here on LE...Here's her fab tool storage link:

http://abeadisborn.com/catalog.php?category=2

Myself? I went to Big Lots, bought a Food Storage Kit that came with a "sectioned" lazy susan, replaced some of the storage containers with cheap glasses (also from Big Lots, less than a buck each!) and viola, storage for my tools and stringers - I think the whole thing cost me about $12.00.

Gotta say, though - Mel's gorgeous, hand made tool caddy and press cradle are unbeatable in quality for sure! I know, I've owned them!

And if anyone cares to engage me for sharing my tips, bring it!!! Just be sure you don't come to a battle of wits unarmed!!!

~De in CA

[ChristinaColligan]