Rocky switch from HH to Cricket--HELP

coollit · #1 2011-03-31, 12:21pm

Hi, all. I haven't been an active member here, but I've come to a point where I need to cry HELP! I have been on a HH for 4-5 years and have produce some great stuff and have done crafts shows, etc., doing moderately well...I have defied advice to go to a dual-fuel torch, because I loved my HH and made great beads with it and was unwilling to change. However, I have acceded because I want to be able to make beads faster, and be able to consider stuff like wholesale, etc. My only problem with the HH was one of speed.

I've been working on the Cricket with an oxycon for a couple of weeks now, and in some respect I'm adapting but what is breaking my heart is that the glass itself seems to react to the heat of the flame in negative ways, and in ways that I don't think a learning curve will fix! There must be something I'm not doing right. If I put a transparent aqua in the flame, no matter how cool I make it or how far away from the candles I place the bead, it bubbles and sparks. In other circumstances, also no matter how careful I am, the glass produces bubbles and foam. Also, in opaque colors, the flame often discolors the glass.

If I work really hard at holding the bead in a cool part of the flame this stuff is manageable -- but in that case, since it takes just as long or longer, why did I switch from a HH????

I hope my despair is coming through here. I know there are lots of beadmakers who are working with dual-fuel torches who are not beating their heads against the wall. I'm under the gun, facing many shows this summer and because of delays on the arrival of the oxycon, I am very much under the gun to produce.

Any help, via the forums or email, would be gratefully appreciate. Thanks in advance.

Lisa

Sherry · #2 2011-03-31, 12:29pm

Lisa, I'm wondering if you are running a reducing flame. Can you describe the actual flame? Have you played with altering the mix of oxy and fuel? Your oxycon could be not running right....so many variables. Something is wrong for sure, but it's hard to pin it down. Or can you take pictures of the actual flame?

No glass should spark, yikes.

coollit · #3 2011-03-31, 12:33pm

I've played a bunch with altering the oxygen and fuel mix. There doesn't seem to be a lot of play in the oxygen settings. In other words, I can get lots of change in the amount of propane but not much in the amount of oxygen. I am running an M10, but have it set at 5 lpm, because that was the Cricket recommendation. Should I try running it at its capacity? You don't know what a relief it is to even think there might be something worth trying.

Sherry · #4 2011-03-31, 12:35pm

I'm hoping that someone who know your torch and oxycon will come in here; but I can't imagine that adding oxy will hurt anything. I'd give that a try.

coollit · #5 2011-03-31, 12:37pm

Thanks, you've already reduced my panic!

dusty · #6 2011-03-31, 12:38pm

Don't freak out!

Most of us are using dual fuel torches with the same glass you're using, I bet. We're not magic, there's just something going wrong with your set-up/technique.

Post a pic of your flame if possible.

coollit · #7 2011-03-31, 12:43pm

*breathing*

I'll try to take a pic of the flame.

RSimmons · #8 2011-03-31, 12:43pm

It sounds like you aren't getting enough oxygen out of your concentrator for the size flame you are trying to use. As said above, a picture of your flame would be handy. I've run a Crickett on an oxycon at 3-4 lpm with propane and had no problems. You don't by any chance have a FB arrestor in your oxygen line, do you?

Robert

echeveria · #9 2011-03-31, 12:46pm

What is your propane setting on the regulator?

coollit · #10 2011-03-31, 1:04pm

Thanks all...I'm running out now but will get data needed for further diagnosis ASAP.

Lia

AKDesigns · #11 2011-03-31, 1:17pm

Transparent aqua is notorious for boiling easily. Does the same thing happen with other transparent colors? When you say opaque colors get discolored, which ones and can you post a picture?

j2canoe · #12 2011-03-31, 2:36pm

When I first switched, I was so used to the larger flame of the HH that I thought the Cricket's flame had to be that size too. I burnt everything I put in the flame and couldn't get any detail work to come out right. I was about to despair when a kind LE member reminded me that "you can turn down the flame on your torch"! Eureka!!! After I turned it down and got the mix right - things started to get much better. I felt kind of a dumba** for not figuring that out for myself, but then that larger flame had been normal on the HH and with no way of adjusting it, it was just something I got used to. I couldn't figure out for anything why I couldn't get the Cricket to work for me!! I hope that your problem might be as simple as that.

Sue in Maine · #13 2011-03-31, 3:26pm

Lisa,

Stop in at Playing With Fire in Rockland on some Friday night. It's open torch night. Lots of us stop in... they have several crickets and will be happy to help with the issues you're having.

Sue

lenora · #14 2011-03-31, 3:38pm

I'm on a cricket and an M10. I had the same problem when I switched from my Minor. I turned my propane down to 5 based on info I found in a thread here. Then I just played with the concentrator until I got it right. I don't know what my M10 is set to because I can't read that thing, but try turning your propane to 5 and then playing with your concentrator. Also, I discovered that what looked like a neutral flame to me (based on a Minor) was actually a reducing flame on the cricket. It was really easy to tell when working with silver glass. Once I made those two adjustments, my problems went away.

coollit · #15 2011-04-01, 5:39am

My oxycon is a 10 lpm, 5 psi. However, when I turn on the oxygen, there is very little play in how high I turn it up. It goes up a little then stops increasing. It's definitely a propane-rich mix, but I don't know how to get more 02 from it.

The regulator setting is 4.

What is an FB arrestor?

RSimmons · #16 2011-04-01, 6:54am

FB is a flashback arrestor that many of us use on tanked O2 and fuel lines to prevent flashback fires. They are typical in welding setups and give an extra margin of safety for lampworking for even if flashbacks on surface mix torches are rare it only takes one to ruin your day. They aren't needed on concentrators and will reduce or even block the flow of oxygen.
It sounds like your concentrator isn't working properly. If it was giving you a true 10lpm your Cricket would burn like a space shuttle engine.

Robert

clan tabby · #17 2011-04-01, 8:01am

coollit, I had all kind of trouble when I got my Cricket & oxycon set-up. Like you, I would run my oxycon full bore, but still needed to bump the propane a bit too high to get a flame hot enough to melt glass. After trying everything possible, including sending back the oxycon for a check (it was fine), it appears that the electrical lines, for whatever reason, don't supply the oxycon with sufficient juice.

Believe it or not, a year & a half later, the situation is just the same. I've been trying for that long to get the owner to put in a new electrical panel. It's ancient, from the 50's, & doesn't even have a ground. Sheesh. I have a friend, electrician, who will put in a new panel for ~1/2 what the companies charge, but, so far, no go. I've decided that, if I don't get an answer within a couple of weeks, I'm going to have my friend run a dedicated line for the oxycon, but I'm sure hoping for the new panel.

Anyway, could it possibly be a problem with the oxycon getting insufficient electricity? Mine runs fine with the exception of not being able to produce the amount of oxygen flow for which it is designed.

Good luck to you! Believe me, I know how frustrating it is.

coollit · #18 2011-04-01, 12:56pm

Rsimmons, I got it backward....5 lpm, 10psi.

coollit · #19 2011-04-01, 12:59pm

clan tabby thanks, that does sound like what's happening. I'll try to get the electrical specs from my DH. Can you tell me what you discovered was the electrical requirements of your oxycon?

I certainly canmake beads, although they are not coming out quite right according to the standards I have always held myself to.

And I'm certainly not getting the speed which is what I made the change for.

Alaska · #20 2011-04-01, 3:48pm

The typical 5 LPM at 10 PSI concentrator runs about 400 watts. That is about 4 amps. Houses built with two wire systems in the 50's used number 12 wire for a 20 amp circuit. It would take a very long electrical wire run to drop the voltage to a lower level at a 4 amp load. Of course it would be interesting to see what else is on the same circuit.

Find a person with a DVM or VOM and measure the voltage at the wall socket with the concentrator on. It should be in the range of 115 to 120 volts.

Ran a Cricket and used, as suggested above, 5 PSI for the propane adjusted at the torch for the correct flame. And for the oxygen about 3-1/2 to 4 LPM. One concentrator will run the Cricket fine - two will really make it shine.

maryfair · #21 2011-04-04, 7:20pm

I'm new and just purchased an oxygen concentrator to go with my mega-minor. Is it true that I do not need a flashback arrestor on the oxy generator? Also, any visual information on hooking up the propane fittings? Suggestions?

clan tabby · #22 2011-04-05, 7:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by coollit

clan tabby thanks, that does sound like what's happening. I'll try to get the electrical specs from my DH. Can you tell me what you discovered was the electrical requirements of your oxycon?

I certainly canmake beads, although they are not coming out quite right according to the standards I have always held myself to.

And I'm certainly not getting the speed which is what I made the change for.

Oops; lost this thread. I actually went looking for it yesterday, but couldn't remember either the title or the OP, so didn't find it.

I believe the amperage draw for the oxycon (mine's an Ex-15) is 4.5. That oxycon ought to fire the cricket like a rocket, but it barely gets a decent flame, &, turning the propane down, can't get a neutral flame that is hot enough to actually melt glass. I took both the oxycon & torch to a friend's studio last year, & the set-up worked perfectly over there, so it is neither the torch nor the oxycon.

Supposedly the electrical ought to run the oxycon, but it doesn't. This is when my friend's discussion with another contractor went into purely esoteric realms, directional flow & something about polarity & reverse polarity, & I didn't understand what the heck they were talking about, so I can't tell you what they found amiss. I just want it fixed!

How are things going with you? Any progress?