Hot head questions

Momliz · #1 2008-06-21, 7:58pm

Hi.. I am a newbie.. love making beads, been taking a class and want to make them at home also.. I want to get a hot head, cause gas lines are not an option now. What are the detriments of a hot head ? I have been working on a torch with oxygen and natural gas in class. Is there any coe 104 glass or frit which will not work well with a hot head?

thanks, Liz

woozles · #2 2008-06-21, 8:35pm

using a hot head. I torch outside due to space issues. I use propane - buy it in the barbque tanks.

Stay away from alabastros and opalinos until you are feeling good about flame control. They need to be worked very cool. Tourquiose also needs to be worked cool to keep from drawing the silver to the surface.

When I started I was constantly scumming my moretti clear. Someone on here posted that it is just bad clear so I tried vetrofond clear and had no more scumming.

Take a look at the hot head thread in the gallery. There are some amazing artists who continue to inspire me by what they achieve on a hothead. It just takes that old PPP!

Vicki

lunamoonshadow · #3 2008-06-21, 8:46pm

Some of the silver-laden glasses are more of a challenge to strike/reduce on the hothead, but other than that, there really isn't a whole lot you can't do as far as 104 coe stuff goes

It's a nifty little torch--loud, not really adjustable as far as getting a pinpoint flame (lol), but with practice, you can do pretty much anything with it--there are quite a few lampworkers (not me--my beads are still just ok,

) who make incredible things with the hothead!
~luna

Momliz · #4 2008-06-22, 2:31am

Do you use the MAPP gas or otherwise ? I will probably do this in my garage for ventilation issues 3 seasons and then see how things work out.

categ50 · #5 2008-06-22, 5:32am

I have been using a HH for about 3 years now. I use bulk Mapp that I get from AGL Welding here in NJ. It is a lot cleaner then propane. The only thing you have to remember about is to keep the HOSE ELEVATED above the tank and ALWAYS BLEED THE HOSE after each session. I even bleed mine if I have to turn it off for more then 15 minutes. It is very cost effective to start out with a HH. Then your only large expense will be a kiln. And glass, and tools, and press's, and...........

Cate

MerryFool · #6 2008-06-22, 7:09am

I've been using bulk propane (bbq) with my HH since it was about half the cost of buying bulk Mapp. (*sigh, I'd love to buy the bulk Mapp)
I read in the forum that you just need to get used to not working too low in the flame and to find "the sweet spot" to do your work.
Right now, I'm still getting used to it, trying not to "burn" my glass...
I usually work for 4-6 hours at a time.
I just went through the #1 cannisters of Mapp waaaaaay too fast and hated the way that they chilled down and you'd have to stop so that they could warm up again.
Keep on working!

Momliz · #7 2008-06-23, 4:54am

Does the MAPP gas have a somewhat mixture of propane and an oxy type?

I find it hard to imagine using only propane to torch with. I currently use a minor torch in a local art school with oxy and natural gas, but cant do that at home yet.. but so want to torch more than 3 hours a week [which is all i can do at the school]..

With MAPP gas which is the best place to work your glass in the flame ?

Liz

klcbeads · #8 2008-06-23, 8:52am

I've used propane and MAPP and now the MAPP Pro and I'd have to say that in my opinion the propane didn't seem to get hot enough for me, and I couldn't really trust what the flame was going to do to my colors. It could be something that I was doing wrong, but I have had nothing but great experiences with the MAPP and current form of MAPP, MAPP Pro. I have no problems with raku, I can strike silver glasses just fine. It is difficult, however, to make rather large pieces without them cracking though. So there are limits to a hothead, just rather unimportant ones to me!

Dale M. · #9 2008-06-23, 8:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Momliz

Does the MAPP gas have a somewhat mixture of propane and an oxy type?

I find it hard to imagine using only propane to torch with. I currently use a minor torch in a local art school with oxy and natural gas, but cant do that at home yet.. but so want to torch more than 3 hours a week [which is all i can do at the school]..

With MAPP gas which is the best place to work your glass in the flame ?

Liz

The Hot Head is a AIR/fuel torch ... It draws its "oxygen" from surrounding atmosphere through the holes at base of torch head and mixes it with the "fuel" and produces a flame above the mixing chamber and "ports" internal to torch construction..... Its sort of a supercharged "candle", which also draws it oxygen for the surrounding atmosphere....

MAPP gas which is no longer available after existing supplies run out is a mixture of Methyl Acetylene and Propane, which are both fuel gasses.... There are no oxidizers in fuel mix.

Using MAPP gas or Propylene or Propane which all have similar charstics, the best position of probably 2-3 inches out from front face of torch head, the means about 1 to 2 inches beyond center "pencil point" in flame... You have to move around some to get best/cleanest results (sweet spot), also working in lower edge of flame seems to help some.....

Dale

Momliz · #10 2008-06-23, 3:06pm

Dale..thanks for the info on the manner in which the hot head works. It makes much more sense to me now.

Once all the Mapp gas is gone, is the Mapp Pro the next best thing in order to generate the heat necessary?

thanks, liz

Dale M. · #11 2008-06-23, 5:23pm

Quite frankly the temps between Propane, MAPP and Propylene is all so close its not going to make a lot of difference.... I go between MAPP and Propane, and I can not tell any difference in heat or how clean flame is...

Some people have had experience with propane that has been less than happy but its really up to you to decide what is working for you...

Dale

lunamoonshadow · #12 2008-06-23, 6:08pm

I use plain 'ol BBQ tanks of propane. Cheap, easy, if I run out it's no hassle to get my tank refilled!

FlamingGlass · #13 2008-06-23, 6:13pm

Hi -
New person to Lampwork Etc. I recently switched to the 7 1/2 lb tank of MAPP gas. Use a Hot Head. After about 10 minutes, the flame goes out. Any idea what the problem is?
Porschetta

agw · #14 2008-06-23, 6:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by porschetta

Hi -
New person to Lampwork Etc. I recently switched to the 7 1/2 lb tank of MAPP gas. Use a Hot Head. After about 10 minutes, the flame goes out. Any idea what the problem is?
Porschetta

I'm using a 28lb (13 kg) tank of MAPP and I don't have any trouble. What kind of hose are you using to connect the tank to the torch? You don't want a regulator with a hothead as you use full tank pressure so if you have one that might be the problem. I am using the hose you buy to connect a bulk propane tank to camp stoves.

Just a guess... I am too new to have any other ideas.

klcbeads · #15 2008-06-24, 7:23am

when using the cannisters on a hot head the tank tends to freeze up and that will cause your flame to go out. Setting your tank up to sit in a bucket of warm/hot water while you work at your torch will settle that issue.

Momliz · #16 2008-06-24, 7:07pm

Is the MAPP tank freeze up issues common with only the smaller tanks or does that also occur with the larger ones?

Dale M. · #17 2008-06-24, 8:15pm

"Generally" only the #1 cylinders freeze up.. Bulk tanks are large enough they can dissipate the "cold"...

Dale

klcbeads · #18 2008-06-26, 9:36am

I'm sorry I missed she was using a tank.

CelesteK · #19 2008-06-28, 6:31pm

I have a hot head and am using a BBQ tank with propane right now. I didn't like how the little cannisters froze up and also made so much trash to throw out. The large tanks can still cause interesting issues. Last winter I couldn't torch when the temperature dropped below freezing because the pressure in the tank wasn't high enough to support a flame. Now the issue is the temperature fluctuations that we have during the day. Our temperature will tend to change about 30 degrees on any given day. With my tank sitting in the sun it now gets too much pressure inside and the flame is too high to torch with and burns all the light colored glass. I am seriously thinking about what kind of shelter I can build for my tank that will protect it from the weather and insulate it. Right now I torch in the early morning and have great results. My only complaint with the pressure fluctuations is that it makes it really hard to determine where in the flame to work when that spot is constantly changing.

Celeste

lunamoonshadow · #20 2008-06-29, 8:45am

Those rubbermaid sheds with the little doors work well, or so does just a plain little piece of plywood leaned over the top! Just remember to leave space @ the BOTTOM for ventilation to the outside (propane is heavier than air--it goes down to escape if something leaks!)
The sun on a tank enclosure will often keep the tank warmer than "freezing" in the winter also because the little box will warm up a bit more than "air" temp & not having ice/snow sitting right on the tank helps! (I think there was someone on here who put something in the box to warm it a bit just before torching in dead of winter? A light? Considerably AWAY from the tank--you don't want to heat the tank!) I do know I was able to take my very first lesson from Sue on her hothead on a day when it was 15 below with a windchill of 30+ below (freaking coldest day in like 3+ years or something up here? it was insane!) a couple years ago

--we wondered why the flame seemed "a bit cold & slow"....then I heard that on the radio on the way home...rofl....