Official Thread: Tink Electroforming Kits Q & A - Page 11

Ed_Slawson · #**301** 2008-04-06, 4:03pm

Here is my latest piece of electroforming, thank you Tink and John for getting me started!

Object title: Armed Beauty #3
Object information: Mixed media pendant: Flameworked
borosilicate glass, rose thorns and patinated copper electroforming.
The pendant is suspended on handwoven bamboo and silk Kumihimo
necklace, with oxided sterling clasp and findings. (Thanks to Moonlight Creations for teaching us how to do Kumihimo during our last Maine Flameworkers Glass Jam!)
Dimensions: 75 mm long (with bail) x 30 mm wide x 14 mm thick

-Ed-

Emily · #**302** 2008-04-07, 9:23am

Love your work, Ed!

I think a separate "electroforming show & tell" thread is a great idea. I worry that maybe people might be put off from posting in this thread because it's titled "Tink's" electroforming thread, and of course many of us learned electroforming from other teachers or are self-taught.

Emily · #**303** 2008-04-07, 4:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimberly

I rarely post in here, but I do a lot of electroforming and teach it and learned it from someone else a long time ago.

And you do gorgeous work (but we expect that from you.) I've admired your electroformed beads in your etsy shop.

Why don't you start a new electroforming show and tell thread? It could keep going for a while, like the boro gallery threads do, instead of starting new every day like the regular "show" threads do.

(I have no electroforming that I'm up to showing off right now -- just a bunch of ideas-in-progress that haven't gotten to a stage I'm happy with yet.)

karrina · #**304** 2008-04-13, 2:29pm

I was wondering if anyone had etched a bead after it was electroformed.. Just been pondering that option.

thanks so much,
karen

zen-mom · #**305** 2008-04-23, 4:48pm

I think you'd have better luck etching first, then electroforming.

DesertDreamer · #**306** 2008-05-09, 4:03pm

Woohoo! I just got my kit from Tink yesterday.

I have a quick question. I should probably read through this thread but I'll get distracted by all the gorgeous eye candy and forget what I'm trying to find out.

For the solution. I know there's the Electroforming solution available from Rio. I kinda like to support my local store. They have this available, and I'm wondering if it's the same stuff?

http://www.lonniesinc.com/Products/T..._solutions.htm

It's listed for plating, not electroforming, but I figured I'd ask. Thanks!

CreditRiverArtGlass · #**307** 2008-05-09, 5:37pm

I did a search in this thread & in the Tips forum & didn't find an answer, so here you go...

Can you fire something that's been electroformed???

I just made a really cool PMC bail using a twig & thought "hey, this would be really cool to do electroformed" (instead of PMC) ...but then realized that the twig would still be inside, instead of how it burns away when firing the PMC.

So... I'd need to get rid of the twig.... will it hold up to some time in a hot kiln & when the twig is gone will the form collapse??? LOL! I'd do it fairly thickly, if necessary.

Wondering what temp I'd need to get up to to burn away the twig....

Anybody??

Thank you.

Wendyki · #**308** 2008-05-09, 5:59pm

why couldnt you leave the twig in? I would think the copper is heavier then the twig so if you plater heavyier to counteract the strength issue you would end up with the weight being the same eithar way

still a geat question tho

and one I want to know the answer too

Wendyki · #**309** 2008-05-09, 6:07pm

heres my first electroformed thing

CreditRiverArtGlass · #**310** 2008-05-09, 8:33pm

....good question, Wendy, thanks! Guess I didn't make it obvious that I'm using the channel that the twig left (after being burned out in the PMC piece) to put my cord/chain through... it's a bail. For my PMC piece, I imbedded a piece of surgical steel wire into it & it's now an interchangeable pendant holder.... BEAUTIFUL..... I'll post a picture of it soon... probably in the gallery w/ a bead on it. I just fired it this morning... my first time to burn something out (my 2nd piece ever on my own)... scary!! LOL.

So... unless I want to drill through the twig, I need to somehow remove it...

...make sense??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendyki

why couldnt you leave the twig in? I would think the copper is heavier then the twig so if you plater heavyier to counteract the strength issue you would end up with the weight being the same eithar way

still a geat question tho

and one I want to know the answer too

CreditRiverArtGlass · #**311** 2008-05-09, 8:34pm

Wow Wendy... your shell is beautiful!

prairieson · #**312** 2008-05-09, 9:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertDreamer

Woohoo! I just got my kit from Tink yesterday.

I have a quick question. I should probably read through this thread but I'll get distracted by all the gorgeous eye candy and forget what I'm trying to find out.

For the solution. I know there's the Electroforming solution available from Rio. I kinda like to support my local store. They have this available, and I'm wondering if it's the same stuff?

http://www.lonniesinc.com/Products/T..._solutions.htm

It's listed for plating, not electroforming, but I figured I'd ask. Thanks!

We've used the Krohn solution before and it doesn't provide the same result as the Midas stuff does. There's also a difference in results between electroforming and electroplating solutions. They're both copper sulfate in a weak acid solution, but the electroforming solution will give you a better coating.

beadworkstudio · #**313** 2008-05-09, 9:16pm

@Julie: Maybe there's an easier solution, but could you cast the twig in wax? That would be easy to melt out without getting firescale or other problems with the copper.

prairieson · #**314** 2008-05-09, 9:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendyki

why couldnt you leave the twig in? I would think the copper is heavier then the twig so if you plater heavyier to counteract the strength issue you would end up with the weight being the same eithar way

still a geat question tho

and one I want to know the answer too

You can, if you wish, leave the twig (or any organic item) inside the electroforming. But you must make sure that the object is completely sealed brfore electroforming, else it will dissolve in the solution and contaminate it. A couple of light coats of spray sealant should do the trick.

CreditRiverArtGlass · #**315** 2008-05-09, 9:59pm

FABULOUS idea, Sheila!! Now I just have to learn about wax casting. LOL.

Still wanna know, though, if firing it is an option.

Thanks JP...I haven't read enough of this thread (or any other electroforming material) to know that I should seal an organic object...that's good to know!

DesertDreamer · #**316** 2008-05-09, 11:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by prairieson

We've used the Krohn solution before and it doesn't provide the same result as the Midas stuff does. There's also a difference in results between electroforming and electroplating solutions. They're both copper sulfate in a weak acid solution, but the electroforming solution will give you a better coating.

Thanks John!

Oh, one more question...the rectifier, when tilted, makes a klunking sound, as if something heavy inside it isn't fastened down to anything. Is that normal? (We didn't shake it around or anything, DH handed it to me and I wasn't quite ready for the weight so my grip, and the rectifier, changed angles.)

DesertDreamer · #**317** 2008-05-13, 7:26am

No thoughts on the rectifier? I'm a little hesitant to plug it in if something has come loose inside.

Emily · #**318** 2008-05-13, 3:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreditRiverArtGlass

FABULOUS idea, Sheila!! Now I just have to learn about wax casting. LOL.

If you can live with a flat back on your twig, you can make a mold by pressing your twig into polymer clay and then baking it. You can leave the twig in place when you're baking the polymer. Dust a little talcum or cornstarch on the twig or the clay before you press the twig in. Once the polymer is baked (I should probably say cured), just melt a small amount of wax and pour it into the mold. (Take out the twig first, of course.) Depending on the size of the twig, you could melt the wax in a big spoon over a candle, or use a metal measuring cup. You need to keep a careful eye on any wax you're melting, though, because (no surprise) it's highly flammable.

You don't need any special kind of wax. I did an electroformed twig this way. I used bits of jeweler's carving wax because I had it handy, but you could use candle wax. I can't remember if the polymer molds smell funny when you pour hot wax in them or not, but it doesn't hurt the polymer. (I've done several wax molds in polymer this way, and I think I actually have used candle wax for some of them.)

Since you're going to be using it as a bail, I guess you'll leave the ends of the twig unpainted when you put the electroforming paint on. Anyway, you need to leave at least one spot un-electroformed so there's a hole for the wax to come out when you melt it. I would do a seriously heavy layer of electroforming; you're going to need substance if you want to hang anything from this. (If you can't get a thick enough layer of metal with just the electroforming, maybe you could pour a few layers of wax into your mold, then lay in a piece of metal tubing so you end up with tubing that has twig-shaped wax on it. Then electroform the whole thing so it stays together.)

After you have your electroforming done, you'll need to melt out the wax. Even those little mug-warming hot plates get hot enough to melt wax, but you'll have to work out a way to heat your piece so that the wax flows away from it when it melts. You don't want to end up with an electroformed twig embedded in a puddle of wax.

If you want to end up with a wax model that's twig-shaped all the way around, you'll have to make a two-part mold. Start by making the one-part mold -- lay the twig in the clay and bake it. Then leave the twig in the baked mold, dust the baked polymer with cornstarch or talcum, and press another piece of polymer down over the top. You want to make sure that there are no gaps. Since you're going to have to pour wax into it later, you'll want to leave a cone-shaped/funnel-shaped opening at one end of the mold leading to where the twig is. (You could carve one out later if you had to, but putting an opening in when you're making the mold is simpler.) Bake the whole thing again. When it's done, the top piece should lift off so you can take out the twig. Fasten (tape?) the two mold pieces together tightly and pour in the hot wax. Give it plenty of time to cool before taking the mold pieces apart. There's going to be a seam mark (if not significant wax oozage) that you can shave off carefully with an exacto knife, or a razor blade, or a sturdy fingernail.

If you want to make sure that the halves of your mold line up exactly, when you make the bottom half, imbed something like a short bit of dowel rod or a small marble in the clay on either side of your twig. Bake with the dowels/marbles/whatever in place. Take them out after baking the bottom, and when you make the top half of the mold, make sure the depressions that the dowels/marbles left are filled with clay. This should give you bumps on the top half of your mold that fit into depressions on the bottom half, so you know the halves are lined up the right way when you put the mold together.

Good luck!

CreditRiverArtGlass · #**319** 2008-05-14, 9:56pm

Emily... I knew you'd be of help!!

THANK YOU!! Fabulous information. I was actually looking @ chocolate molds while in a cake decorating shop a few days ago & was thinking the same thing.... flat backed twig mold!! I like the idea of the 2 part mold, though.... so thanks for talking me through it. Very simple. It'll be cool to see how this works out. THANKS!!

Ekkie · #**320** 2008-05-16, 12:01am

I just received my kit. Thanks so much Tink & John.

Help!!! I know I read somewhere in this thread about a sealant tu use on leaves, etc, before eletroforming them. Now I can't find it. Does anyone know what kind of sealant I need?

Thanks
Jenn

Wendyki · #**321** 2008-05-18, 7:48am

so if I use a copper tube as a bail do I need to paint the copper tube in the paint as well?

Tink · #**322** 2008-05-18, 8:00am

For organics, I just use the Krylon acrylic sealer that you spray on. You don't need to spray so many coats that you lose the details of the organic item, just enough to make sure it's truly sealed.

Wendy, make sure you scrub the tubing really good. Will the copper tubing be the ONLY electroformed part on the piece, or will the tubing bail connect to an electroformed design?

Wendyki · #**323** 2008-05-18, 8:26am

It will connect to and overall electroformed design like a lapidary pendant with other wirework and a copper backing.

I am going to attempt to solder all of them together and then rough it up just wasnt sure if I needed to paint it all as well or justthe soldered edges

Wendyki · #**324** 2008-05-18, 8:27am

I want to also work on addong those tiny little copper daisy beads incorpirate them into beads and things but those I will glue and then pain right?

Wehre do i buy more paint at?

Tink · #**325** 2008-05-18, 8:52am

The water-based paint in our kits is from Safer Solutions:
http://safer-solutions.com/
You can buy it in 4 oz jars now too, IIRC.

For your bail, I would put a coat of paint on it. When I've used copper wire or tubing in conjunction with purely painted designs, I've found that if I *don't* paint the wire/tubing, then it has a slightly different 'look' than the painted parts. If that's ok, then don't bother painting it. But if you don't paint it, make sure you really scrub it so that it's all shiny and new looking. Remember, too, that if there are any wire brush marks or anything on the tubing that those will become a texture in the final result. If you want it to be smooth, you'll have to polish it smooth before electroforming.

lldesigns · #**326** 2008-05-18, 9:07am

My kit arrived and now I'm just trying to find time - and a cool day - to get on the torch and make a bead I feel is worthy of electroforming...

I've been polishing a lot of turds lately. Not sure why and I'm really tired of it! I think my muse took a vacation without informing me. If anyone see's it, please send it back C.O.D. I have a few harsh words for it!

Wendyki · #**327** 2008-05-21, 6:46am

So basicly I can super glue anything I can seal onto a bead and paint it in copper and then it becomes part of that bead if its basicly caged on right?

This opens up sooo many possibilitys

Wendyki · #**328** 2008-05-21, 7:23am

If the bead is etched will it hold a partial wrap like a stained glass window bead sort of effect or Puzzle pieces being eformed and then no eformed?

I realize I will have to do each area seperate but will they hold safely enough to sell?

lldesigns · #**329** 2008-06-14, 3:25pm

Question...I'm trying to figure out which room to electroform in. How bad/toxic are the fumes? Can I set this up in a corner of my kitchen? I don't have any free rooms because they all contain kids or reptiles.

ETA - I got my answer, thanks!

lldesigns · #**330** 2008-06-16, 7:34am

I have another question. I successfully electroformed my first bead and now I'm trying to get the pretty blue patina on it with ammonia but nothing is happening...what am I doing wrong? Do I have to clean the copper first? Is it a super strength ammonia? I set up a fume tent in a plastic bag but as I said, so far nothing.