Official Thread: Tink Electroforming Kits Q & A - Page 8

Tink · #**211** 2007-08-29, 4:44pm

The Ti-Pen can be found at Aspen Glass:
http://www.aspenglass.com/

The titanium path laid down by the pen is conductive, and can be electroformed.

Marie C · #**212** 2007-08-29, 10:20pm

Thanks, Tink! You're the best!

Warmly, Marie

Marie C · #**213** 2007-08-30, 5:43am

OK, another question- I hope it hasn't already been addressed here, I just don't have time to read all 8 pages. If so, please tell me it's here and I'll find it.

I'm particularly interested in electroforming real leaves. I know anything organic has to be sealed to keep it from contaminating your solution.

Here's my question: Is there a way you can prep the leaf before sealing it, something to do to keep it from drying out too much, curling around the edges, etc. Can I/should I lay it out on paper towels and put books on top?

Thanks! Warmly, Marie C

Marie C · #**214** 2007-08-30, 5:44am

Oh, and can I do green leaves?

Thanks! Marie C

Lea Zinke · #**215** 2007-08-31, 3:44pm

Just started e-forming and all of mine are turning out bumpy/sharp, etc. Then when I try to grind off the offending sharp "crystals", it still doesn't smooth out nearly enough.

Is it because the conductive paint is all thick & lumpy -- if I thin it out, will the resulting e-forming look like the smooooooooth coatings you guys are getting???

Also, I'm leaving them in overnight, is that toooo long?

Wanting to get it right! Thanks for any tips!
Lea

VivianLampwork · #**216** 2007-09-01, 3:39pm

Lea, if the paint you apply is rough then your electroforming will be rough. You can thin out the pain by adding distilled water. If you get a smooth layer of paint you'll have smooth electroforming. Also, the rate that you electroform has a lot to do with whether you get a smooth coating or a bumpy coating & leaving it all night is too long. If you got your electroforming kit from Tink, the instructions tell about that. On my rectifier the knob on the bottom is zero & the current knob on the top is .15 for a smooth electroform.

prairieson · #**217** 2007-09-04, 12:56pm

Marie - Yep, you can do green leaves, and I would imagine you could also press them before sealing. Drying out shouldn't be an issue, you'll be sealing them anyway.

Vivian - Spot-on correct!

Tanja · #**218** 2007-09-04, 3:04pm

Marie...I've done one leaf so far...it was such a perfect cute little leaf I had to try it and it worked out great. I have two more I'm getting ready, one may go in tonight....
Here's the first little one I did

I didn't do any special preparations for this one. Though the two I'm working on now I did press for a little bit to get them flat.

Janelle Zorko · #**219** 2007-09-29, 8:23pm

Hi Lea!

I try to stay quiet in this thread because it's "Tink's Official Thread" (and I forget to read it) but please don't thin your paint with water. If it's the Dalmar paint you got from me, you would thin it with acetone that you can get at Home Depot or another home store. Make sure you put the black tape back on the jar when not in use so that it won't evaporate down.

Also, when you have your bead in the solution, make sure you are checking on it frequently. I think that the stirring up of the solution a bit every couple of hours when you check on your bead really helps to get rid of those spiky "dendrites". Of course, if I leave it in overnight, I'm not getting up every couple of hours, but the more the stir up the solution, the better.

Also, make sure if you want a really smooth deposition that you start low - like at .15. I'll go up to .30 if I want a fast, but sturdy bumpy deposition but you can lower the amperage to get a smoother deposit of copper.

Hope that helps! If you bought a kit from me, please don't ever hesitate to contact me. I'll be happy to help!

Janelle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lea Zinke

Just started e-forming and all of mine are turning out bumpy/sharp, etc. Then when I try to grind off the offending sharp "cryst

als", it still doesn't smooth out nearly enough.

Is it because the conductive paint is all thick & lumpy -- if I thin it out, will the resulting e-forming look like the smooooooooth coatings you guys are getting???

Also, I'm leaving them in overnight, is that toooo long?

Wanting to get it right! Thanks for any tips!
Lea

sislonski · #**220** 2007-10-16, 9:05am

Is electroplating the same as electroforming?

Tink · #**221** 2007-10-16, 9:57am

Electroplating, or just 'plating', is the laying down of a thin layer of metal over another metal. Electroforming is the laying down of a thick layer of metal, typically on a non-metallic surface, that is thick and substantial enough to hold its form if removed from the base article. Hence, electroFORMing.

There is, indeed, a difference in the solution used for the two processes. I don't know what the chemical difference is, but the functional difference is that the electroforming solution is formulated to do its job at a slower deposition rate, at a lower amperage.

PixieFireBeads · #**222** 2007-10-19, 2:50pm

Easy question...

What should I use to clean my brushes?

Tink · #**223** 2007-10-19, 9:54pm

Depends. If you're using water-based paint, such as the stuff in the kit I sell, then you should technically use distilled water. If you're using conductive paint from another source, then you should use whatever they (the manufacturer of the paint or the putter-togetherer of the kit) recommends.

PixieFireBeads · #**224** 2007-10-20, 1:23pm

Thank you!

madnesssr · #**225** 2007-10-22, 6:07pm

I posted these over in the gallary and thought I would post them here too. Trying to work on the patina.

Bev.B · #**226** 2007-11-15, 3:12pm

My electroforming seems to be a hit and miss activity.
1 How important is the size of the anode to the electroformed area? I've read 2:1 in area, but is this critical?
I have also been making my own conductive paint. My etched bottle worked and I put a patina on it. As you can see the next was a disaster. All I managed to cover was the copper holding wire and I actually put nail polish on this to try and cover it. Both were done using a silver powder. Looks like I should buy a commercial conductive paint.
2 How close can the bead be to the anode bars?
Looking forward to some answers.
Thanks, Bev.B

Ed_Slawson · #**227** 2007-11-15, 6:09pm

Here is an electro-formed, patinated one from my "Lathe" series of beads.

-Ed-

EchoTantuli · #**228** 2007-11-21, 5:29am

I was wondering what kind of limits there are on things you can glue to the piece to add sculpture and depth (the no-no list, if you will). Is the solution corrosive at all? How hot does the piece get during the process? Would plastic work? I know some stones work...has anyone tried pearls? How about Fimo Clay? I saw somewhere you can form over wax...What kind? I'm getting a set-up, so I'm sure I'll have many questions to come, but I can hardly wait!!!

- Echo

Tink · #**229** 2007-11-21, 6:15am

While you can certainly experiment with making your own conductive paint, for reliable, reproducible results, I highly recommend using something tried and true. Some folks like solvent-based paints, others (like myself) prefer the water-based paint from Safer Solutions.

I've had best success with placing my cathode (the work to be electroformed) centered between two or more anodes. How close can it be? As close as you wish, though you don't want the cathode and anode to touch, of course. Remember the drawings of magnetic field lines in your gradeschool science book? If you could actually see what was going on in electroforming, you'd see a similar pattern. It can be helpful to keep that in mind.

If you're coating the wire with deposits instead of your work, you're likely not getting a good connection between your work and the copper wire that's connected to it. This can be due to placement or to a faulty or inadequate conductive design.

Nice work, Ed

Echo, the piece doesn't get hot at all during the process. Yes, you can use plastic, Fimo, wax... There are some limitations, but they are easily solved in most cases through proper preparation. If you want to use something organic (twig, feather, etc.) then you need to seal it first. I use spray polyurethane from the hardware store. Organic things will 'gas out' and contaminate your solution unless you seal them. I've never tried pearls, but sounds cool

Bev.B · #**230** 2007-11-21, 9:50pm

Thanks Tink
Just getting materials here in Australia is a problem at times. My next step was to get some paint from Safer Solutions.

I decided to start with a new mix. Even getting the battery acid was a problem. I was told - "Sorry the batteries come filled." "Can't sell it with the new regulations, and anyway you would have to buy a 5 litre drum." 5 shops later I got lucky!

I chatted with Bernie Stonor our 'Glass Guru' from South Australia and my problems seem to be sorted. The pics show my first new solution test - still in progress. This was after a 12 hour run set at 0.4V and 0.16amps. I let this sit overnight and am continuing at the moment with 0.5 v and 0.3 to see if some big edge lumps develop.

My rectifier did not want to run with such a low current until I used much smaller anodes. Their size seem to be much more critical than I at first thought.

This bottle is ivory and not etched. I used super thinned acetone based nail polish mixed with silver powder.
My fingers are crossed. Thanks again, Bev.B

Tink · #**231** 2007-11-21, 9:54pm

Bev, you are a total wildwoman

I love it!!! That's looking pretty darn good, don't you think? Keep us posted!

Bev.B · #**232** 2007-11-22, 3:46pm

Well I'm happy, here it is. I probably didn't leave it long enough, but it seemed to be just thickening all over rather than building up on the edges. I painted it with Ron Young - Sculpt Nouveau, Traditional Mint Green Patina and left it overnight. I then buffed most off and waxed the bottle.

I was going to make something for the top, but I keep seeing this poor little headless sea horse so I'll leave well alone.
Bev.B

Bev.B · #**233** 2007-11-23, 5:41pm

I've been playing with this one for the last couple of days. This was a wax form that I electroplated. The 2nd pic is its first polish. I haven't decided what I will do next, probably try liver of sulphur.
The first day I ran at 0.15 amps to try to get a really smooth, or at least even coat. Last night I boosted it to 3.5 amps.
The trickiest part was deciding just how thick I should get the body. I used calipers to measure the support wire thickness as I progressed and decided that 0.5 mm would be when I would stop.
Bev.B

Ed_Slawson · #**234** 2007-12-06, 9:25pm

This is one of a current series of boro spirals that I have electroformed and patinated. The electroforming has a very different look that is the result of using our new Titanium Scribe ™ to lay down electro-conductive lines.

-Ed-

Cabaribeads · #**235** 2007-12-06, 10:32pm

Gorgeous!

MaryBeth · #**236** 2007-12-07, 8:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed_Slawson

This is one of a current series of boro spirals that I have electroformed and patinated. The electroforming has a very different look that is the result of using our new Titanium Scribe ™ to lay down electro-conductive lines.

-Ed-

I love that, Ed! I sent you an email

beadworkstudio · #**237** 2007-12-23, 10:15am

I got my Tink kit two days ago and I love it! I was impressed with the packing, too. It was so neat and organized in the box, and I got the added bonus of neatly folded bubble wrap that I can reuse. (Yes, I'm an organization freak.)

One question: My first bead has striped ridges and I'm not sure how I got those. I'd like to be able to repeat them. The only thing I can think of is that I applied the paint in the same direction as the stripes. However, some of the glass dots I put on there have stripes on them and I dabbed the paint on them.

Here it is. I've shown this in several places today so I hope nobody is sick of seeing it:

prairieson · #**238** 2007-12-23, 1:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by beadworkstudio

I got my Tink kit two days ago and I love it! I was impressed with the packing, too. It was so neat and organized in the box, and I got the added bonus of neatly folded bubble wrap that I can reuse. (Yes, I'm an organization freak.)

One question: My first bead has striped ridges and I'm not sure how I got those. I'd like to be able to repeat them. The only thing I can think of is that I applied the paint in the same direction as the stripes. However, some of the glass dots I put on there have stripes on them and I dabbed the paint on them.

Why thank you, I pride myself in ship-proofing the stuff I send out, heheh.

I suspect that the major cause of the striation in the deposition is the presence of the electromagnetic flux lines created when the power is applied to the circuit, like the old Mr Wizard style demos with the magnet and the iron filings on a sheet of paper. It would be a function of the shape of the painted part of the piece, the amount of current applied, how close the anode and cathode are to one another, size of the anode and cathode, where the wire contacts the piece, and probably some other variables as well.

That being said, I too really like the result you got. Unfortunately my only advice is to take lots of notes every time you work.

MaryBeth · #**239** 2007-12-23, 1:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by beadworkstudio

I got my Tink kit two days ago and I love it! I was impressed with the packing, too. It was so neat and organized in the box, and I got the added bonus of neatly folded bubble wrap that I can reuse. (Yes, I'm an organization freak.)

One question: My first bead has striped ridges and I'm not sure how I got those. I'd like to be able to repeat them. The only thing I can think of is that I applied the paint in the same direction as the stripes. However, some of the glass dots I put on there have stripes on them and I dabbed the paint on them.

Here it is. I've shown this in several places today so I hope nobody is sick of seeing it:

I like that piece, Sheila! Did you use LOS for the patina?

I have two vessels that I have just about completed the electroforming on and I am trying to decide on the patina. I have the commercial green and blue from Rio Grande but I think I'm leaning more towards the color that you have on your piece.

I love those striations, too, by the way!

beadworkstudio · #**240** 2007-12-23, 2:12pm

Yep, Mary Beth, it's plain 'ol LOS. I like the look and I was too impatient to use ammonia. I didn't even mix my liquid LOS with water; I just used a Q-tip, put some on (it turned black as night), then rinsed and scrubbed with a 3M pad.

My second bead just came out of the bath, and it has the striations, too (good word, John!). I wondered if the current caused it, but wasn't sure. The second bead has a rounded top with raised dots, sorta like an acorn look. I started the first one at .15, held there for about 4 hours, then uppped it to .5 for another 3-4 hours to get more nubbiness. I started the second at .25 for about 6 hours, then upped it to .5 for two hours. The deposition is really heavy on the second, yet it still has stripes. Fun, fun stuff!