Observation About Tutorials

[Moth]

LOL, I am guilty of using the words 'just' and 'really' a LOT. To the point where I've learned to go back through and remove all of them before I hit post.

I just did it to this post. Really.

LOL
~~Mary

[emoon]

My friend and I both have a pile of educaton, and training, and have worked in eductional settings. We both agree that as soon as we set down to email at the computer, all our training in grammer, puncuation, spelling and sentence structure goes right out the window. Perhaps we can blame it on the current trend to reduce all thought to initials.

WTF, LMAO...

[mad hatter]

I buy tutorials. Not all of them, but the ones I can't figure out how they do that type tuts. That being said I like books better. I would buy a book with 10 tuts that only had 1 I really wanted. Maybe its age, maybe its the binding of the feel in my hand, maybe its that it feels more permanent . I love the booklets by James Kerwin, I have them all even though I have no plan on doing some of those techniques ever. They seem like a collection to me. I would love it if these tutorials were booklet for 3-5 in each. I would buy them all. But since they are online tuts I will pick and chose techniques I want.

[Donna T.]

Originally Posted by squid

I don't understand why people print out every tutorial, either.

I don't either. I keep a folder on my laptop and take the laptop out to my studio. If I didn't have the laptop then I would just take some shorthand notes to the torch. Which is what I do when I'm surfing LE or the net and come across something I want to try. I keep a notepad by my chair in the living room for just said notes.

[Kaleidoglass]

Originally Posted by emoon

I'm just pointing out that without the costs involved in actual bookmaking, it seems that a tutorial should be less expensive than an actual book.

I agree! I'm the author of a book. I spent months writing, photographing, proofing, designing and laying out the book, registering, and handing digital files to a publisher to print it out. My royalties are less than $4 per book. I spent the same or probably more time on the book than anyone on these online tutorials, since everything had to be absolutely perfect for the publisher.
So, for the amount of time and money I had to lay out for my book, I think the online tutorials are over priced.

[Moth]

Nancy, I'm sorry but just because your publisher is making more off your work than you are doesn't mean my work is overpriced.

Someone spends $18 with me and learns how to make jellyfish beads. Someone spends $20 plus shipping plus waiting on your book and learns how to do wirework with glass beads. The only difference is that I get $18 and you get $4. Not a big motivator for me to change the way I'm doing it and frankly I would hope that the buyers would be happier about me getting paid than a publisher they don't know.

This is just two different ways of doing business that are independent of each other. What about all the people going crazy over the Kindles? Obviously people don't mind digital reading/learning.

When we buy a book, are we really buying it to own bound printed pages, or are we buying it for what we learn/enjoy/experience from those pages? I love books. If you could see my house you would know just how much I love books. There isn't a flat surface in my house that isn't covered in books. I read them numerous times. I love the feel of them and the owning of them.

Most of all though, I love what's IN them. The characters, the experiences, the lessons. Digital files still have all of that. Just no pages--unless you print them yourself and then voila...now you have a book like Melodie's.

Let's look at Lapidary Journal for a minute. What is it like $8 for a copy of their magazine all full of great articles and tutorials and advertising and basically awesome eye candy.

Go to their site and try to purchase a digital download of just ONE article from their magazine and it costs $4.00. In this case--that 'book' costs WAY less than the digital files and people pay it. I know because I order them all the time.

My price does not depend on how much you get in royalties for your book. My price depends on the market and what I felt was fair.

~~Mary

[VivianLampwork]

The only way to keep a technique secret is to never share it with anyone. Once you make a tutorial on a technique, it's out there. Unfortunately, some people are going to share their tutorial, show other people how to do it, etc.. It's similar to loaning a book or dvd to someone.

[AKDesigns]

Originally Posted by Moth

Someone spends $18 with me and learns how to make jellyfish beads. Someone spends $20 plus shipping plus waiting on your book and learns how to do wirework with glass beads. The only difference is that I get $18 and you get $4. Not a big motivator for me to change the way I'm doing it and frankly I would hope that the buyers would be happier about me getting paid than a publisher they don't know.

My price does not depend on how much you get in royalties for your book. My price depends on the market and what I felt was fair.

^ This.

[Mitosis Glass]

Originally Posted by Kalera

I think this is completely reasonable to ask buyers not to discuss the contents of a tut online when it's something really unique and proprietary. Where I have an issue with it is when someone asks a question about using a particular glass or achieving a particular look that is something many people have come up with on their own, sometimes even before the tutorial author began lampworking, and someone in the thread automatically refers the questioner to the tut. There's a definite sense that it would be gauche for anyone to answer the question after that, and also I think a bit of fear that they will be accused of "not supporting the community" or of depriving the tut author of income, if they answer the question. I feel like this is wrong, and that people who worked out a look or technique on their own, independently, should feel free to answer questions about it if they want to, even if someone else wrote a tut on a similar look or technique. I don't mean it's OK to reverse-engineer someone's design and then telling everyone how to do it, just to be clear. More like, if someone wrote a tut on faceting, would it then be wrong for Andrea (who taught me and has been faceting for ages) or for me, or any of the people who have been faceting beads for a long time, to answer questions about faceting? I certainly don't think so. Yet, there has come to be a bit of a sense that whoever writes a tutorial on a particular subject or technique then "owns" the right to field all questions on that subject. That is neither right nor fair to the lampworking community and all of us within it who have spent decades learning and sharing.

I know what you mean. On the torch the other day I was experimenting with something and realized I came up with an effect that is currently made available by another person, via tutorial. Since I hadn't bought that tut and ended up figuring this out myself, I felt I'd better be smart and not ever show the bead on here.

That seems to be one of the quirks of this community. I haven't been here long enough for it to bother me, but I am certainly careful with my postings because I've seen that it doesn't take much to step on toes.

[squid]

Originally Posted by Moth

Nancy, I'm sorry but just because your publisher is making more off your work than you are doesn't mean my work is overpriced.

Someone spends $18 with me and learns how to make jellyfish beads. Someone spends $20 plus shipping plus waiting on your book and learns how to do wirework with glass beads. The only difference is that I get $18 and you get $4. Not a big motivator for me to change the way I'm doing it and frankly I would hope that the buyers would be happier about me getting paid than a publisher they don't know.

This is just two different ways of doing business that are independent of each other. What about all the people going crazy over the Kindles? Obviously people don't mind digital reading/learning.

When we buy a book, are we really buying it to own bound printed pages, or are we buying it for what we learn/enjoy/experience from those pages? I love books. If you could see my house you would know just how much I love books. There isn't a flat surface in my house that isn't covered in books. I read them numerous times. I love the feel of them and the owning of them.

Most of all though, I love what's IN them. The characters, the experiences, the lessons. Digital files still have all of that. Just no pages--unless you print them yourself and then voila...now you have a book like Melodie's.

Let's look at Lapidary Journal for a minute. What is it like $8 for a copy of their magazine all full of great articles and tutorials and advertising and basically awesome eye candy.

Go to their site and try to purchase a digital download of just ONE article from their magazine and it costs $4.00. In this case--that 'book' costs WAY less than the digital files and people pay it. I know because I order them all the time.

My price does not depend on how much you get in royalties for your book. My price depends on the market and what I felt was fair.

~~Mary

I agree with this - if profits are to be had, I much prefer the lampworker get it !

[PittsGlass]

This debate makes me realize that the trade books future is probably digital. The publisher-writer relationship of days past is becoming less and less necessary unless you are writing on a topic that is intended to please hundreds of thousands, or a large coffee table book. This does not make the material any more or less valuable. Presentation is the variable.

Even when I buy a printer or camera, the manual is on disk or via website as a .PDF. It saves $ and trees.

[Carols Glass]

Can you imagine if the original book Dots was in tutorial form?

I've been thinking about the amount of money people are willing to pay for that book now that it is out of print.

I believe that it is the invaluable information inside of Dots that people are after and willing to pay that much for and nothing else.

It is the same with tutorials. How badly do we want the information? For me, I want it badly enough to pay what the authors of the tutorials are asking and I don't think it is too much but everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

[Laura B]

Originally Posted by Kaleidoglass

I agree! I'm the author of a book. I spent months writing, photographing, proofing, designing and laying out the book, registering, and handing digital files to a publisher to print it out. My royalties are less than $4 per book. I spent the same or probably more time on the book than anyone on these online tutorials, since everything had to be absolutely perfect for the publisher.
So, for the amount of time and money I had to lay out for my book, I think the online tutorials are over priced.

It's all about choices.

You chose to go the route you did and get paid $4 per book.

Others choose to do online tutorials and get paid whatever it is they're charging for them.

The customers choose to buy or not buy a book OR a tutorial based on how much they want the item compared with how much it costs.

As we've seen by some of the responses, there are definitely customers who won't pay for tutorials in the $20-$25 range. But apparently there are enough customers who will because $20-$25 tutorials are selling.

Perhaps with a book deal, you get the publisher to promote your work, thereby bringing in more customers and making the smaller profit worth more in the end.

I hope everyone's happy with their choices and doesn't envy the other guy.

[obsessionwoman]

Many years ago information just was not available...if you were foolish enough to ask you were thrown such a look...the look that you see in your dreams...when someone finally gave up some info. only the well-off could afford it....I am so thankful that artists
are writing tutorials...if I gleen just one piece of information I consider the tutorial worth
the price......just a thought from an old lady who was there

[Kalera]

One of the major differences, as I mentioned in an earlier post, is that in terms of simple compensation for time spent making the tutorial (not even weighing the other factors, like the value of the information itself) most tutorial authors will certainly be fairly compensated for their time IF they sell at least 100 copies, which is by no means assured. It's a gamble. I would guess that most sell well above 100 copies, but even so, their market is not as large as a book publisher's market. A self-publishing author must do all their own promotion, whereas a traditionally published author has a publishing company to do promotion for them. A traditionally published author may only get $4/book, but they have the potential for selling thousands of copies, rather than hundreds.

[emoon]

I am so pleased to hear so many varied opinions. Sadly, I wind up still on the fence because everyones' POV seems so reasonable. I guess we all have to decide what we need to have to grow and learn as artists.

If I get a tute that has alot of steps, (one I can think of has 36 steps), I have to have a copy of it in my studio, in order to refer back to it as I work. Sorry to say the memory isn't quite what it was back in the day. My studio is so small, I wouldn't want to take my laptop out. No place to set it where hot glass isn't flying.

My point here, I guess is that the many options in format allow each of us to tailor-make our learning experience to fit our needs. What a wonderful thing! Imagine if we could still only communicate about this craft by aprenticeship. So many of us wouldn't be making beads at all!

[MistyCherie]

I recently bought a tutorial. I don't buy them often, especially since I'm not sure when I will be able to start making beads again. I actually had thought that was my first one, and then I remembered I bought some of Corina's printed ones a long time ago. I actually had an inkling of how to do the process (Amy's Storming method), but wanted to A) Support an artist I valued B) Learn the "for sure" method of achieving an effect I realllllly liked, and C) Not waste my time/money/supplies trying to figure out that exact technique.

Sometimes it is worth knowing the knowledge in advance. I will not waste my time or my precious silver glass attempting to figure out her technique for storming, when I could learn the technique and develop my own artistic path from that knowledge. How much is your time (and supplies used) worth to you? And it's not just the "here's how I do X" things that you learn. Many tutorials offer insight to other methods/ideas/variations on how to do things.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a tutorial to replicate another artist's "trademark" type bead. I'd buy it to learn their thoughts and processes of how they work, what they do when they work, what they combine together to achieve that interesting effect, etc.

We pay for knowledge in so many ways. College? Training for work? Time/supplies spent? Frustration?

I think people don't see the value in tutorials (some people) because once they KNOW, they're like "Well duh! Why didn't I realize that?!" and then think "Man, I wished I hadn't spent the money on that. I could have bought X/glass/whatever instead." But, I think that is the wrong way to think of it. Knowledge is precious, and many excellent artists are sharing precious information with us. They took the time/money/supplies/frustration and figured it out. I think it's worth it and if I could afford to, would buy any/all tutorials (with techniques that appealed to me) in order to further MY knowledge and say "Hey, thanks - I appreciate you as an artist!"

[Kaleidoglass]

Originally Posted by Laura B

It's all about choices.
You chose to go the route you did and get paid $4 per book.
Others choose to do online tutorials and get paid whatever it is they're charging for them.

Please don't take this as a snide remark, but.... Frankly, when I wrote the book, LE didn't have the online tutorials for a fee yet. If I had to do it over again, I would have offered it online at a very discounted price to LE members as well in book form also. In a way, even though the royalties are only $4, the book is sold in book stores and bead stores throughout the country and on amazon.com reaching more people. So, its nice getting that steady royalty check every month.

So, I'm happy with my choice. I'm making money! Like I said, the only thing I would have changed was to offer it for a fee (at a very discounted fee) to LE members.

[Laura B]

Originally Posted by Kaleidoglass

Please don't take this as a snide remark, but.... Frankly, when I wrote the book, LE didn't have the online tutorials for a fee yet. If I had to do it over again, I would have offered it online at a very discounted price to LE members as well in book form also. In a way, even though the royalties are only $4, the book is sold in book stores and bead stores throughout the country and on amazon.com reaching more people. So, its nice getting that steady royalty check every month.

So, I'm happy with my choice. I'm making money! Like I said, the only thing I would have changed was to offer it for a fee (at a very discounted fee) to LE members.

Why would I take that as a snide remark. You're saying precisely what I said... that sometimes you take a smaller cut per book sold in exchange for more distribution.

You only quoted a portion of my post... there was a sentence following that said: "Perhaps with a book deal, you get the publisher to promote your work, thereby bringing in more customers and making the smaller profit worth more in the end."

Although I have no idea what you mean by "LE didn't have the online tutorials for a fee yet." Lampwork Etc is not the hub of tutorials. Tutorials exists and have existed for decades everywhere on the internet.

[Kalera]

Just an aside, but no, actually, the internet has not had online pay-tutorials for decades. The internet has existed for decades, but practical, commercial online payment systems and the visual web are less than 20 years old. The .pdf format was invented in 1993, and Paypal has only existed since 2000. Ebooks have technically been around since 1971, but really, ebooks and pay tutorials are only about five years old as a commercially viable phenomenon.

[Laura B]

Originally Posted by Kalera

Just an aside, but no, actually, the internet has not had online pay-tutorials for decades. The internet has existed for decades, but practical, commercial online payment systems and the visual web are less than 20 years old. The .pdf format was invented in 1993, and Paypal has only existed since 2000. Ebooks have technically been around since 1971, but really, ebooks and pay tutorials are only about five years old as a commercially viable phenomenon.

Okay then "years" not "decades"... my point was that LE is certainly not the only place that has tutorials.

[Cosmo]

I'm coming to this thread a bit late, but I figured I'd offer my two cents seeing as I've been paying most of my bills for the last year with money made from selling tutorials...

1. Digital vs. Printed - I offer both, and I sell about the same amount of both. A lot of people like them in digital format, but a lot also like them in printed format. I sell both of them for the same price (just have to pay shipping on the printed version).

2. Price - I struggle with price as well. I set my prices at what I thought was fair ($32.50), and apparently they have been well received at that price. That being said, each of my books has at least 8 different techniques in them. I can see that if it was a single tutorial it may be considered expensive to some, but to me if I wanted to learn a technique, $30 or $40 would still be a lot cheaper than taking a $150 class to learn something.

3. Sharing information - Once you buy a book from me, that information is now yours. Do with it as you wish. Obviously, I don't approve of someone making copies of the book itself and giving them away or reselling them, but if you want to make something you learned from the book and sell it, go ahead. Want to teach it? Be my guest. I'd appreciate it if you would mention where you learned it, but that's not a big deal. If the information in the books was something that was a close guarded secret, I wouldn't have put it in the book in the first place. In my opinion, if you are the type that wants to keep your technique a secret, don't put it into writing or teach it to anyone.

[Kalera]

Originally Posted by Laura B

Okay then "years" not "decades"... my point was that LE is certainly not the only place that has tutorials.

Not to be needlessly pedantic, but I think that her only point was that this particular marketing venue was not yet available when her book was published, or she might have used it.

[mnoelker]

The point that isn't being emphasized here enough imho is that the tutorial author is not simply being compensated for the time it took for them to create the tutorial. I am paying for someone to teach me and I expect that a lot of hours behind the scenes at the torch were put in to bring that teacher to the point where he or she has a technique or set of techniques that will enrich my skill set. I am more than willing to compensate another artist for sharing their skills with me that were hard won by hours at the torch. If I buy a tutorial on a technique I don't have to spend those hours at torch, for instance, figuring out just how to work a certain silver glass in the flame. That author has already spent the time experimenting and gone through a lot of glass to figure it out and is now willing to share it with me. I think we need to place a good value on another's willingness and ability to share knowledge. That's something I am happy to pay for.

[Vicki B.]

I have purchased a lot of tuts and never regretted the cost. On the other hand, I have not been able to take classes with the exception of a two day beginners course. I realized reading this thread that I think of the tuts as being more like classes than like books - or maybe a combination of the two. They are usually more conversational and, in their details, more like watching the author walk you through the techniques. It's true that books are often less $$ per page, but most books have some basic chapters in order to set up the information. Tuts seem more focused and dense in a lot of cases.

Since I think of the tuts as a substitute for classes I am unable to take, the price seems very reasonable to me. As far as sharing the information, I wouldn't want to pay for a class and go through the cost of travel and so forth and then "spill" the teacher's techniques usually developed with much experimentation and hard work. I surely would hate to see beadmakers stop sharing through the tuts - or classes - but who would want to have their hard work becoming common knowledge with no payment?

[Vena]

I've purchased hundreds of dollars of tutorials. I can count on one hand the tutorials I purchased that I feel were actually worth the money. I agree most are overpriced especially with all the limitations some tutorial writers put on their work. I personally hold no one responsible for the money I've spent. I freely purchased them. That being said, I appreciate the work that the writers put into their tutorials. I'm sure they all believe their tutorial is worth every penny and some are, but others aren't. Unfortunately, there isn't a return policy for tutorials that are bad. Also, on the subject of sharing tutorials. I don't share my tutorials for one reason and one reason only. I feel I paid for the tutorial and any lampworking friend of mine that wants to learn the technique should pay the price I had to pay. I keep my tutorials to myself. It has nothing at all to do with the "for you eyes only" statement which is absolutely insane.

[jonibird]

hmmm I would think the same rules would apply to tutorials as they do books.

[Kevan]

Would anyone say "I paid to learn how to make those brownies from that cookbook and if you want to know how to make them you should have to buy the cookbook"?

[ElementalsDesign]

No.. but there *are* recipes that have been jealously guarded for years and some even many decades...
Speaking of which.. I was born and (partially) raised in Buffalo, NY where my mother, due to a random stroke of luck, happened to hang out with the kids of the family who owned the "Anchor Bar"... they are the folks who invented Buffalo Wings (it's kind of a cool story too.. much like the way the Caesar salad came to be).
I have the actual and original recipe for "Buffalo" wings.. although since it (obviously) isn't exactly a secret that might not seem like a big deal... nonetheless.. they're one of my favorite things to eat!
But due to the fact that (IMNSHO) though there is a food called that and served nearly everywhere, it is so different I feel sad for anyone who hasn't had a chance to taste the "real deal".
Do I have a point here? (amazingly enough, yes, I do ).
Just because someone (all across America) got big chunks of the recipe right.. they missed a couple of key ingredients and.. well.. they end up (most of them) pretty far afield from the real thing.

In other words.. someone can tell you about a recipe.. be it for brownies, chicken wings or a certain color of glass.. doesn't mean that you might not likely discover much more depth, flavor, and interest still by visiting that site, spot, or tutorial for yourself.
One doesn't take as much away from the other (I don't suspect) as much as a lot of people seem to believe that it would.

<whew>

See? Not really off topic at all!

~Rachel

(anybody who loves buffalo wings feel free to PM me for the recipe though

[jaccarney]

anything purchased is a "what the market will pay" kind of thing.

apples, real estate, tutorials, clothing, on and on.

one person will spend $300 on a purse and another won't spend more than $30 so there are markets to support each.

there is no "this is too much to pay" or "this is not nearly enough to pay" each of us will pay according to the value we personally place on the item we're purchasing.

when a bunch of folks decide they'll pay X for an item, then the price magically becomes X. if folks will pay more, the price increases. if folks won't pay that much, the price magically falls. if the market is large enough it can support many price points (such as the $300 and $30 purse). if the market is smaller, the price points dwindle to a single or couple only- this is where the lampworking tutorials are currently.

of course folks also take little hints from industry and hucksters telling them what price they 'should' pay which influences markets - but that's not industry/hucksters' fault - only the fault of the folks that listen to the hints and make them so.

my opinion:
- sell for a price that you feel comfortable taking from others (in all things - not just this topic) not what you think they'll pay or what the market sells for. you've got to live with yourself, after all.
- buy at a price you're comfortable paying, regardless of public opinion. if you're not comfortable paying so much; don't buy - there are a bazillion alternatives for everything. if you feel the item is worth more than is being charged; tip the seller up to the value you place on the item. never take advantage, never get taken.

as far as grammar in online posts - we have many ways of speaking in our daily lives. casual, formal, aggressive, submissive, regional, etc. depending on the situation at hand. for me, online posts are quick and super casual blabbering the same way i would chat with my best bud when we're both talking at the same time without regard to grammar (or in many cases; content) in any shape or form. i tend to picture folks that criticize forum post grammar as snotty little brats that sit on the edge of their seat just slobbering for the opportunity to jab at someone with a sharp stick so everyone will look at them, hehehehe.

now, grammar/spelling in a tutorial or document setting? well, that's a great big horse of a different color. be proud of what you produce, put some work into it.

jac