Lampwork Etc.
 
TrueDesign on Ebay

LE Live Chat

Enter Live Chat

No users in chat


The Flow

Glacial Art Glass


 

Go Back   Lampwork Etc. > Library > Tips, Techniques, and Questions

Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:08am
Lisi's Avatar
Lisi Lisi is offline
one day at a time
 
Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: We are MOVING!!!
Posts: 8,319
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEW View Post
So what width do you aim for in the initial footprint?
Skinny as heck...like about 3-4mm
__________________
You live in a world of money. Money means choices. No money, no choices. Welcome to reality.
Melody (Marlee Matlin) from Switched at Birth
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:11am
chrissij's Avatar
chrissij chrissij is offline
Rose colored glasses…√
 
Join Date: Jul 22, 2005
Location: Monticello, FL
Posts: 8,258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Lutman View Post
These HUGE beads that Chris is trying to make are the size of the smallest ones I can even THINK about doing.
Whatever...

they ARE huge.

I'm torn between telling everyone thank you for helping or whining that everyone's pickin' on me.


I'll try again this weekend. I only have three of the hollow mandrels, and two solid ones. Hate them!! If they weren't so cumbersome and/or heavy, and if I didn't have sheet rock walls, they'd have gone flying long before now.

Teensy foot print (I'm good there), all the way around the mandrel in one fell swoop (my failure #1), only add glass to the footprint (my failure #2), the heat will even it out (my failure #3; lack of patience), tweak the edges as needed (never got that far).

Piss Piss Piss
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
OMG I listed some stuff!!! Little devils ARE ice skating!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


RIP Sunday; You can donate for Izzy's Future Trust @:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Live kindly...'cause karma will bite you in the ass harder than you ever thought about nibblin'...
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:12am
Lisi's Avatar
Lisi Lisi is offline
one day at a time
 
Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: We are MOVING!!!
Posts: 8,319
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissij View Post
Do you mean like what I do when I'm laying down a stripe, stop before the end of the bead, take the cool stringer and pull it to the hole?

and you do that around the mandrel?
Yep! Anchor and pull to wrap around until they touch. It's straight because it isn't pushed onto the mandrel.

sigh....just like with my "evenly sized beads" tutorial, pictures or video of what I do would be SO much better! It's hard to explain. (shrugs shoulders)
__________________
You live in a world of money. Money means choices. No money, no choices. Welcome to reality.
Melody (Marlee Matlin) from Switched at Birth
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:14am
SuzyQ's Avatar
SuzyQ SuzyQ is offline
sunscreen me baby
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Exeter, NH
Posts: 17,496
Default

hehe I like Piss Piss Piss
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:15am
AKDesigns's Avatar
AKDesigns AKDesigns is offline
Storm Queen
 
Join Date: Aug 30, 2005
Location: SQUIDVILLE
Posts: 8,812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissij View Post
[/i]the heat will even it out (my failure #3; lack of patience), tweak the edges as needed (never got that far).

Piss Piss Piss
My experience is that the heat won't even out an uneven footprint on these big mandrels. It only accentuates it.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:17am
SuzyQ's Avatar
SuzyQ SuzyQ is offline
sunscreen me baby
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Exeter, NH
Posts: 17,496
Default

Yup, I agree there Amy. If the footprint sucks I don't waste any more time on it. It's in the water.


Lisi, why aren't you listing Pandora style beads on Etsy? Simple spacers are a production bead makers dream
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:21am
AKDesigns's Avatar
AKDesigns AKDesigns is offline
Storm Queen
 
Join Date: Aug 30, 2005
Location: SQUIDVILLE
Posts: 8,812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzyQ View Post
Yup, I agree there Amy. If the footprint sucks I don't waste any more time on it. It's in the water.
One trick I do because I only have 18 mandrels right now, is to start a bead on one end of my dipped area. If I screw that one up, I move over a half inch or so and try again. That way I'm not wasting mandrels. Also, when I first started making these I really hated doing them. I mean I HATED making them big time. Once I got in the swing of things I ended up loving it and now that's pretty much all I make right now.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:21am
chrissij's Avatar
chrissij chrissij is offline
Rose colored glasses…√
 
Join Date: Jul 22, 2005
Location: Monticello, FL
Posts: 8,258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDesigns View Post
My experience is that the heat won't even out an uneven footprint on these big mandrels. It only accentuates it.
Oh, Goodie!!

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
OMG I listed some stuff!!! Little devils ARE ice skating!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


RIP Sunday; You can donate for Izzy's Future Trust @:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Live kindly...'cause karma will bite you in the ass harder than you ever thought about nibblin'...
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:22am
AKDesigns's Avatar
AKDesigns AKDesigns is offline
Storm Queen
 
Join Date: Aug 30, 2005
Location: SQUIDVILLE
Posts: 8,812
Default

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:26am
SuzyQ's Avatar
SuzyQ SuzyQ is offline
sunscreen me baby
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Exeter, NH
Posts: 17,496
Default

Hey I have about 24 mandrels

Good trick Amy. When I have at least one already on it I just leave the bad footprint on there and move over too. I could do it with the first one though, now couldn't I? lol.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:34am
Lisi's Avatar
Lisi Lisi is offline
one day at a time
 
Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: We are MOVING!!!
Posts: 8,319
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzyQ View Post
Yup, I agree there Amy. If the footprint sucks I don't waste any more time on it. It's in the water.


Lisi, why aren't you listing Pandora style beads on Etsy? Simple spacers are a production bead makers dream
Hahaha I used to! But I misplaced my 1/4" mandrels! They have been MIA for the past year since my move of most of my studio stuff from my mother's to my house. My brother-in-law took it upon himself to pack my stuff, and this was a bad idea! I don't know which studio or box they are in.... (he, of course, doesn't either!)

I was a little discouraged because I thought that in norder to sell them good you would have to core them. I coudln't afford the supplies or coring tools, so I stopped making them. But, apparently people make them coreless and they sell good, right?? I haven't really done much research on that lately.

Oh, question - 1/4" is one size I know of, and those I have...somewhere! But what is another size? Is it 5/32", 3/16"?? I don't know, really! I know the 1/4" leaves a 5mm hole, right?

I'm such a pandora/troll/whatever dummy here, even though I made a bunch of them before! I made quite a few, and mostly just for the fun of it. LOL
__________________
You live in a world of money. Money means choices. No money, no choices. Welcome to reality.
Melody (Marlee Matlin) from Switched at Birth
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:37am
SuzyQ's Avatar
SuzyQ SuzyQ is offline
sunscreen me baby
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Exeter, NH
Posts: 17,496
Default

My plain colored spacers are not cored and sell really well.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 2010-03-31, 10:42am
Lisi's Avatar
Lisi Lisi is offline
one day at a time
 
Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: We are MOVING!!!
Posts: 8,319
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzyQ View Post
My plain colored spacers are not cored and sell really well.
That's good to know!

So they don't have to be cored, that's really good! Okay, then with my next glass order in the next month or two, I'll get some more mandrels. I prefer the hollow ones because of the less weight.
__________________
You live in a world of money. Money means choices. No money, no choices. Welcome to reality.
Melody (Marlee Matlin) from Switched at Birth
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 2010-03-31, 11:21am
LyndaJ's Avatar
LyndaJ LyndaJ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 21, 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,807
Default

I cheat and use my EMS. Since it spins for you, you can fix the footprint.
__________________
Lynda
Cheetah, 5 lpm and 7lpm conc/generator (8-9 psi), natural gas (booster), started 11/06
"The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." -- Bertrand Russell
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 2010-03-31, 12:24pm
SuzyQ's Avatar
SuzyQ SuzyQ is offline
sunscreen me baby
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Exeter, NH
Posts: 17,496
Default

Can you explain a bit how you do that Lynda?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 2010-03-31, 12:31pm
ChaseDesigns's Avatar
ChaseDesigns ChaseDesigns is offline
Formerly Travelin'gal
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Cajun Country
Posts: 14,359
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzyQ View Post
Hey I have about 24 mandrels

Good trick Amy. When I have at least one already on it I just leave the bad footprint on there and move over too. I could do it with the first one though, now couldn't I? lol.
I do what Amy does, too. I only have ten mandrels.

I agree, if the foot print is bad, you're screwed. Start over.
__________________
Deanna
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 2010-03-31, 3:52pm
Toni Lutman's Avatar
Toni Lutman Toni Lutman is offline
maybe tomorrow
 
Join Date: Jun 17, 2005
Location: Carmichael, CA
Posts: 3,098
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissij View Post
Whatever...

they ARE huge.

I'm torn between telling everyone thank you for helping or whining that everyone's pickin' on me.


I'll try again this weekend. I only have three of the hollow mandrels, and two solid ones. Hate them!! If they weren't so cumbersome and/or heavy, and if I didn't have sheet rock walls, they'd have gone flying long before now.

Teensy foot print (I'm good there), all the way around the mandrel in one fell swoop (my failure #1), only add glass to the footprint (my failure #2), the heat will even it out (my failure #3; lack of patience), tweak the edges as needed (never got that far).

Piss Piss Piss
I should probably be nice until after I get another pair of earrings, huh?
__________________
Toni
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 2010-03-31, 5:38pm
chrissij's Avatar
chrissij chrissij is offline
Rose colored glasses…√
 
Join Date: Jul 22, 2005
Location: Monticello, FL
Posts: 8,258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Lutman View Post
I should probably be nice until after I get another pair of earrings, huh?
'Ya think?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
OMG I listed some stuff!!! Little devils ARE ice skating!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


RIP Sunday; You can donate for Izzy's Future Trust @:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Live kindly...'cause karma will bite you in the ass harder than you ever thought about nibblin'...
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 2010-04-02, 5:43pm
CelesteK's Avatar
CelesteK CelesteK is offline
I practice alchemy!
 
Join Date: Dec 06, 2007
Location: Milton-Freewater, OR
Posts: 716
Default

I think that Donna of CG Bead Rollers, sells bead rollers specifically for the Pandora Beads.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 2010-04-02, 5:58pm
chrissij's Avatar
chrissij chrissij is offline
Rose colored glasses…√
 
Join Date: Jul 22, 2005
Location: Monticello, FL
Posts: 8,258
Default

She does, but I don't want to spend the funds for something I'm fairly certain I'm gonna' detest.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
OMG I listed some stuff!!! Little devils ARE ice skating!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


RIP Sunday; You can donate for Izzy's Future Trust @:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Live kindly...'cause karma will bite you in the ass harder than you ever thought about nibblin'...
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 2010-04-02, 6:00pm
squid's Avatar
squid squid is offline
Ass-kicking Cephalopod
 
Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
Location: Duh, Squidville
Posts: 9,521
Default

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

DOG is my co-pilot
Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 2010-04-02, 6:11pm
AKDesigns's Avatar
AKDesigns AKDesigns is offline
Storm Queen
 
Join Date: Aug 30, 2005
Location: SQUIDVILLE
Posts: 8,812
Default

Those rollers would look like the Grand Canyon to you.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
*
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 2010-04-02, 6:16pm
squid's Avatar
squid squid is offline
Ass-kicking Cephalopod
 
Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
Location: Duh, Squidville
Posts: 9,521
Default

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

DOG is my co-pilot
Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 2010-04-02, 6:17pm
chrissij's Avatar
chrissij chrissij is offline
Rose colored glasses…√
 
Join Date: Jul 22, 2005
Location: Monticello, FL
Posts: 8,258
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDesigns View Post
Those rollers would look like the Grand Canyon to you.

I have the small spacers one. Would you believe I have to add glass to my normal beads to make the smallest round? Then sometimes I add a smidge too much, and then I have to add A WHOLE BUNCH of glass to get to the next size round.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
OMG I listed some stuff!!! Little devils ARE ice skating!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


RIP Sunday; You can donate for Izzy's Future Trust @:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Live kindly...'cause karma will bite you in the ass harder than you ever thought about nibblin'...
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 2010-04-03, 1:18am
Tanner Studios's Avatar
Tanner Studios Tanner Studios is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 07, 2006
Location: Salt Lake City,Utah
Posts: 980
Default

Foot print foot print Foot print. That is absolute gospel, make no mistake. But lets talk about how that is achieved.

The foot print is achieved. Simply by following some basic rules of physic. Which are: Heat, Gravity, Orbit and someone to control it.

Heres a diagram to illustrate my thoughts.
The blue lines are just separation lines. The Black lines are the mandrels. The colors represent the temperature of the rods ( yellows very hot.
Orange still very hot but not molting hot ). As well as how the glass is reacting to the physic's of what going on.

The left side is what you shouldn't do. The right side is what you should strive to achieve.

Fig 1. This is normal thats how everyone starts. Notice that all the heat is focused at the tip of the rod.


In Fig 2. Notice how much heat is going up the rod. This is the secret of the foot print. You need to have enough glass on the rod heated and ready to go molten to complete one orbit around the mandrel without stretching the glass on the rod "Ie" the source.

Fig 3. Shows the effect of tension. If your heat is lacking and your patience is short sighted. The tension on the glass will pull tighter and tighter. creating less source and a narrower stream of glass from the source i.e. the rod.

Fig 4 Shows where you need to be. Enough glass ready to make a complete orbit around the mandrel without any tension on the source.

Fig.5 & Fig.6 Are views from the top. One to Illustrate tension and the other to illustrate heat control.

Oh did I say Tension is the enemy. And heat is your friend.



Hope this helps.
Scott
__________________
Ebay auctions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


ESTY
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Tanner Studios; 2010-04-03 at 5:14am.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 2010-04-03, 4:27am
SuzyQ's Avatar
SuzyQ SuzyQ is offline
sunscreen me baby
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Exeter, NH
Posts: 17,496
Default

Scott that is excellent!

I was trying to say that but man did I fall flat
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 2010-04-03, 10:05am
Lisi's Avatar
Lisi Lisi is offline
one day at a time
 
Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: We are MOVING!!!
Posts: 8,319
Default

Scott,

Thank you SO much for the visual!

I'm going to have to try this myself because I use the tension way to pull around, and although I'm getting them straight, it's a real big PITA to round these beads out! That is the second reason why I don't make these kinds of beads.

The first is I can't find the mandrels, they are MIA...
__________________
You live in a world of money. Money means choices. No money, no choices. Welcome to reality.
Melody (Marlee Matlin) from Switched at Birth

Last edited by Lisi; 2010-04-03 at 10:08am.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 2010-04-05, 2:54pm
Tanner Studios's Avatar
Tanner Studios Tanner Studios is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 07, 2006
Location: Salt Lake City,Utah
Posts: 980
Default

Thanks SuzyQ & Lisi
__________________
Ebay auctions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


ESTY
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 2010-04-05, 3:07pm
selma_belma's Avatar
selma_belma selma_belma is offline
Sarah Jane's grandma
 
Join Date: Mar 03, 2008
Location: Idaho
Posts: 853
Default

Thanks Scott! I've been having trouble with my pandora style beads too. This illustration really helps. Now I know how to fix it!
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 2010-04-05, 7:38pm
dragonfly designs 56's Avatar
dragonfly designs 56 dragonfly designs 56 is offline
Formerly Kellyhorton
 
Join Date: Nov 29, 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 2,028
Default

two words for you. BEAD ROLLER! That is how I make earrings. I either use a press or bead roller. same size every time! I got the pandora bead rollers for the big holed beads.
__________________
Kelly

MEAN PEOPLE SUCK
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


In the '60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:45am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Your IP: 3.236.96.157