What set up do you have? - Page 2

Lorraine Chandler · #31 2010-03-21, 1:33pm

[quote=CO_Phantom;2944796]This website had stories that made me laugh. Maybe I'm just a heifer, but I just kept thinking "how can people be so stupid!?"

Yep DH and I were talking about that, how the idiots have made it so we all have to pay more and get less!!!

. (For instance, out here in the midwest, we had a trailer house that was destroyed by water damage. Come to find out we were insured for volcano, but not for water damage...)

You made me splutter my coffee all over the keyboard and I nearly fell off my chair laughing!! We have a volcano just 40 minutes from us and I can get hurricane insurance... Too funny! Well, sad really.

Thanks Amy, for the words of wisdom...Maybe one day we can get an insurance company that will be able to really help lampworkers across the board and have all of our needs met in one broad coverage policy.??

Amy

Torched Art · #32 2010-03-21, 2:59pm

"Maybe one day we can get an insurance company that will be able to really help lampworkers across the board and have all of our needs met in one broad coverage policy.??"

Maybe there should be an LE group for insurance. I bet if we contact the right place, they would work with a nice size group like us. If they have "soap makers" and "ceramic artist" groups, there has to be a movement worth investigating a "lampworkers group".

From my research, the current ISGB insurance policy is not offering anything being the man who was dealing with ISGB members no longer works there for some reason.

I wonder how many subscribers it takes in order for an insurance company to consider writing up a specific policy. 100, 1000, 10,000 lampworkers?

Donna T. · #33 2010-03-21, 4:17pm

My husband has been an insurance agent for over 20 years. He keeps reminding me as I read him this thread that insurance is regulated by the individual's states and each one is different. My homeowners covers my studio as long as I don't teach or sell here from the property. Which is probably what most lampworkers are doing.

There are limits to jewelry, firearms and collectible (stamps). It's not very expensive to add on to your policy. He just added $4000 for jewelry and it increased our yearly premium by $30. Your agent keeps a record of your appraisals in your files at his office. So if you have a fire and all your appraisals are destroyed your agent and the underwriters still have a copy of them.

According to JD Powers annual report State Farm is ranked #2 in customer satisfaction. Don't know if that is country wide or just in the state of Ga. (my DH does NOT work for State Farm).

He says to ask yourself "are you a good risk? If you were the insurance company would you insure your studio for $300 a year at the risk that you won't have a million dollar claim"?

How many lampworkers do you need for a group policy?
What does a lampworker's studio look like. We all have different size kilns, torches, ventilation issues, every studio is different. There is no general code for lampworking like there is for houses or cars or lives. Studies would have to done showing how many accidents happen in our studios. How many different kinds of accidents? Which ones are the insurance company willing to take a risk on and which ones not? How do you determine who has the safest studio and who doesn't? Too many variable which is proabably why we come back to the original problem of finding insurance to begin with.

Lorraine Chandler · #34 2010-03-21, 4:18pm

I thought the Fournier group was still offering insurance through ISGB for lampworkers but only in some states?

I am still working on the differences between business coverages and commercial coverages and teaching studio coverages?

I wonder how Frantz, Arrow Springs, Eugene School of glass and Sundance among others are able to insure for teaching?

Wonder what kind of policies and how many policies they have combined to make themselves fully insured, or if they are under insured and do not know it? I wonder just how many lampworking teaching studios even know what exactly their policies cover?

Maybe time to start to asking them? I think we might be stepping on toes though...

Lorraine...still searching

Lorraine Chandler · #35 2010-03-21, 4:29pm

Thanks Donna, we all know how frustrating it is to hear someone say they are fully covered and yet we can't get the same thing by the same company!

We also struggle because our lampworking studios have really taken off in the last 5-10 years so we are newbies and I don't think the industry has found a niche for us and therefore since we don't fit in a pre sorted classified slot we sorta get left to the mercies of the agents and underwriters.

Some are good some are bad and we just have to do the best we have with the resources we have and that is what I am working on, I am also trying to get people to be aware that at this point we are not regulated and if most of us show responsibility we may never have to be regulated.

It takes me a long time to gather info on one company because I have to look at the overall facts that I find and go from there. I didn't even know I could find facts about performance etc. until a few days ago.

It feels good knowing I have some knowledge and some terminology for my use in determining insurance choices.

I am tickled your DH is listening to you read him this thread. I bet he is one of the "good ones"

Lorraine

Donna T. · #36 2010-03-21, 4:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine Chandler

I am tickled your DH is listening to you read him this thread. I bet he is one of the "good ones"

Lorraine

Yea, he's one of the "good ones" in alot of things in life. Insurance just being one of them. I told him to turn down the t.v. and listen to this thread it was about one of his favorite subjects to talk about besides sex!

Torched Art · #37 2010-03-21, 10:40pm

Donna, thanks for chiming in here.

This is a frustrating challenge.

Lorraine Chandler · #38 2010-03-22, 7:04pm

Well, here is my conclusion for what its worth...
Homeowners policies and auto policies are pretty straightforward once you learn the lingo.

Lampworkers policies: Basically what I have learned is both parties look the other way when drawing up the papers.
Don't ask too many questions and they won't tell you too many lies. Sad but it is what I found.

I have 4 insurance policies on the table now, none of them cover everything I want them to. Two of them are pretty good but I can't teach, two of them are pretty good and I can teach..um..vaguely..sort of.

E-MAIL FROM ME:
Hi KIm,

I didn't see anything in regard to teaching? or craft shows? I didn't see
anything with regards to it being an in the home artists policy..just
mentioned jewelry and nothing about a warm/hot glass studio?

It was such small print I couldn't see it very well. Maybe fax it to me?

Her response:
Hi Lorraine,

The policy will cover all aspects of jewelry manufacturing including sales.
If there is not an exclusion on the policy, it is a covered operation. You
indicated the teaching would be a very small incidental exposure. The
location of your business is your home address. It does not matter that you
work out of your home, as many business's are run from a home office. I
will fax you a full copy of the proposal for your review.

Please feel free to give me a call to discuss. Thankyou

SO I guess with this policy I am covered for "some" teaching because of no written exclusion and I guess jewelry making at least in my studio involves lampworking, metalsmithing, lapidary etc. That would be all aspects..right? I guess 'sales" would cover shows, craft fairs, sidewalk sales and my tent, equipment and stuff and liabilty for it all to and from...right?

Maybe I'll go with this one and just sorta squint at the forms when I sign on the dotted line!!!

Lorraine

Lorraine Chandler · #39 2010-03-26, 11:57am

I actually have 3 insurance companies on the line right now seeing just which one can provide the most for the least $$$ spent. One of the companies is a jeweler's insurance provider.

They are used to expensive torches and torch setups and expensive equipment and lots of silver, gold, etc. So I have my fingers crossed.

I will let you all know what happens.

Lorraine

khammil · #40 2010-03-26, 5:45pm

Out of curiosity, does anybody have experience with Amica homeowner's insurance and coverage for a lampworking studio? My agent gave it some cursory thought a couple of years ago and said I wouldn't need additional coverage as long as I'm not teaching out of the studio and only selling on a "hobbyist" basis, whatever that means. Now I want a deeper analysis, but first I'd like to know if they'll preemptively drop customers for asking...

LisaAF · #41 2010-03-26, 5:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine Chandler

I have made a decision to gather the jewelry room in the bedroom, the metalsmithing area in the garage and the horsetrailer studio all into one studio building in the back yard just so I can have peace of mind by insuring the whole thing as a business.

Or I just might sell everything and go to Hawaaii for a long vacation!!!

Lorraine

You might want to check with your local government on the backyard studio. I work for our township zoning department and our resolution will not allow a "Hobby/in home business" to be in an accessory building unless you get a conditional use permit and the location of the building is 100 feet from any property line.

LisaAF · #42 2010-03-26, 5:54pm

I should add that (at least in Ohio) that a Zoning Administrator may not come onto your property and, without proof, your County Prosecutor can not site you.
However, If you have a grumpy neighbor that that is willing to sign an affidavit and they can prove that you sell your product you can be sited.

Uggg, I need a new job. Sometimes when folks come in my office and begin to tell me they are doing this or that (noone is complaining about them) I sometimes stop them and ask them to please not tell me.

Lorraine Chandler · #43 2010-03-26, 8:47pm

I am in the county outside of the city limits so not many restrictions. I have all my I's dotted and my T's crossed. I have checked into all the legalities. Just trying to get the insurance nailed down here.

Lorraine

glasslass2 · #44 2010-03-27, 5:19am

Lorraine, can I ask you what companies would insure you and not let you teach? I'm still in the process of setting up my studio, so I know I'd never need ins to teach. This whole thread has me thinking about the insurance aspect, which is something that never occured to me before. I would just feel better if I knew I had protection.

Lorraine Chandler · #45 2010-03-27, 11:18am

It depends on your location. In california they seem to be very strict where as on the eastern seaboard some states the insurances are very easy going.

Right now they are covering lampworkers mostly with a ceramic studio clause. That is okay as long as there are no exclusions ( like for the torch) it may still be against your home owners policy and would cancel that policy.

Catch 22's everywhere...so to be safest just subscribe to this thread and get email notifications for new posts and I will post the ones that work out for me. It is the best we can do for now..but I am very hopeful about the Jewelers insurance but it may be too pricey.

Right now we hit a snag as we are not being allowed to put up a studio shed! We are in a flood zone so they have decided we need to go through FEMA!!!!! So that leaves us with only the garage to work with or a bigger trailer of some sort...or to sell this house and move to another area.

If you can get an older used trailer, cargo hauler or toy hauler, or concession trailer that would be best because they are separate, can be moved, do not take up to much room, have electricity and propane is easy to adapt. and they are easy to insure and easy to prove it's a real business for tax purposes.

Lorraine

Lorraine Chandler · #46 2010-03-29, 12:56pm

Here are the contacts for companies I was working with in case anyone needs them.
Safeco- ceramics/artist policy
Safeco is the company that Fournier uses for ISGB. You don't need to be a member to get this insurance.

Nor-cal Pacific ( just heard back from them, they won't insure the home if you have a kiln in the garage.)

RLI Insurance

C.LE williams and associates ( be forewarned they use the Hartford)

That's all I have for now and some of these people have not emailed me back with firmed up yes's or no's.

Lorraine

Torched Art · #47 2010-04-27, 10:15am

Any updates on insurance? Any good suggestions?

Lorraine Chandler · #48 2010-04-27, 5:10pm

Well, the best I can come up with is what I will do for myself so just a general coverage for home, a general coverage for the studio as a craft business doing shows with extra liability.

The business insurance will be a jewelry craft insurance that will follow me to shows etc. I will carry a $2,000,000 liability just in case and it is only about $34.00 more a year.

Lorraine

Lorraine Chandler · #49 2011-02-01, 11:47pm

Thought I would bump this to renew interest and maybe help some newbies?

I will be doing the insurance search again as we are putting a tuff shed up for my studio in a month or so...NOT looking forward to the insurance search...again.

Anyone else have anything new to add?

lorisue · #50 2011-02-02, 11:58am

This is a good subject to bring back around. Question: When you talk to the insurance agent are you stating you have a home business, craft workshop or artist?

Charli! · #51 2011-02-02, 12:18pm

I put barn and not insured- I work mostly outside on the patio, so there isn't really anything to insure! The patio isn't next to the house- I'd struggle to damage anything! Only thing I'd lose would be my glass and tools.

Lorraine Chandler · #52 2011-02-02, 2:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorisue

This is a good subject to bring back around. Question: When you talk to the insurance agent are you stating you have a home business, craft workshop or artist?

They keep wanting to put us under ceramic studio which is probably for the best. Some want to put us in the crafts slot. It is just a matter of determining which would be best. I am still getting a headache from it all...LOL

Jewelry studio insurance is high because of the silver and gold they think goes with it.

Detached studio, hobby for now, but if I want to teach it has to go business, then the city wants a chunk of all of my equipment to tax. It really gets convoluted!!

2tumblingdragonz · #53 2011-02-02, 4:15pm

After a long day on the phone and several calls my insurance company will cover me for non business under my rental policy. It is about educating them about the equipment. Kiln makes them think huge ceramics kiln rather than annealer. Single fuel torch like a brazer or a pipe cutter from home depot is a different story than a glory hole.
Also, my father owns my condo, I rent from him. They told me no. I asked him to call to see if I could set up in his basement. They said yes he could use the equipment at his home. He asked if he could use it here since he owns this place. The guy called me and looked up my chili pepper kiln and said it's an annealer??? and said he saw no difference in my torch or one he'd use to cut pipe.
I have been praising my angels.....
and way to go Dad --gotta give him props--

lisa@lo.and.behold · #54 2011-02-02, 8:53pm

I just posted my first studio pic over on the Studio forum and I will be telling more about my story as time goes on - here and on my blog. I wanted everything to be official and above board from the very beginning. I have homeowners from Amica. The customer service who I spoke to on the phone talked to an underwriter who asked me a lot of questions about my kiln, flashback arrestors, ventilation and whether I was having work done under permit by a licensed contractor (I was). They said it was OK as long as it wasn't a business. They said that being a hobby doesn't mean you can't ever sell anything but that you can't have the intention of making a profit. They sent me a letter that I have on file documenting our conversation and their permission to continue our coverage with my lampwork studio in the house.

Now, don't get me started on dealing with the state of MA and the gas inspector! But in the end, I prevailed and I will share that info in another post.

OH, one more thing about Amica: we have been insured by them (car, home, liability) for a long time and they have paid several claims very easily. They were originally recommended to us by my father-in-law who spent his career in the insurance biz.

Good luck to all! It's better to be safe than sorry!

Yellow Dog Girl · #55 2011-02-03, 1:53pm

I'm a bit with Amy on this one: it's about building a relationship. I've had State Farm for YEARS and have never had ANY problems. But, we know our insurance agent. We don't jump from company to company to company in the hope of saving a few bucks. We have ALL of our insurance with him, and we MAKE SURE he KNOWS it. When we file a claim, we call JB, not State Farm.

And, something else: any time you use a website you have to be very careful to know exactly who is behind (literally and figuratively) the site. For example, the Consumer Affairs website is a dot-com, meaning they are in it for a profit (and who contributes to that profit?); the other site is a dot-org, but that simply means that they aren't in it in a capitalistic way, and we all know there are many currencies other than money. Does anybody remember the name Ullja Kuntz?

Lorraine Chandler · #56 2011-04-13, 10:24am

Again, insurance agents are NOT the underwriters. Agents do not know everything and they sometimes assume. having a great relationship with your agent is wonderful ( we have had ours since the 1940's) but they are not the underwriters.

The ONLY way you will know for sure is to have a three way conversation with the agent and the underwriter at the same time.

The minute you say open flame and or kiln you will be getting the complete attention of the underwriter especially if you have the studio in the house or in the garage that is attached to the house. Your insurance will probably be cancelled. Insurance for the normal household is for normal usage.

Until you actually speak with the underwriters and have checked the exclusions written into your policy you probably are not properly insured.

So to be sure

1. Check with the underwriter yourself or have a three way conference call with the agent, be sure to ask what a general home owners policy would cover. Make sure you mention torch and kiln. If you say I have a hobby and make glass beads that sounds very mild. But you say you are working with fuels, open flames and a kiln that portrays a very different picture to the underwriters. The very things that are usually exclusions on most general home owners policies.

2. If they say sure it's okay, get it in writing, have them include the torch and kiln and fuels.

3. Once again make sure the underwriters have been informed by your agent.
Make sure your agent tells them exactly what you are doing.

4. Also remember that if you make a profit you are no longer considered a hobby but a business. That also will factor into your policy big time. It opens up a completely different can of worms.

I started this thread to help everyone who wanted to know about insurance coverages and policies, and to help me figure it all out too. I am reviving it for this purpose again as we have lots of new members.

If you feel like you have checked into your policy and are satisfied with it..That's great.

But if you are like most of us and even some members which have been cancelled when they checked into it, knowing for sure is better than the alternative.

2tumblingdragonz · #57 2011-04-13, 11:08am

Thank you Lorraine, it was this thread that led me to calling my insurance co. I made sure that the approval for hobby lampworking kiln and single fuel torch were written down and included in my policy description. On the record, in the record.
If I become a business, then it's a whole other ballgame, then my insurance co is just an agent to another company that underwrites the policies for businesses for them. It is very confusing and it did take a good part of the day to sort out.
This is important and I'm glad you brought it up again.

Lorraine Chandler · #58 2011-04-13, 4:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by irjc

Thank you Lorraine, it was this thread that led me to calling my insurance co. I made sure that the approval for hobby lampworking kiln and single fuel torch were written down and included in my policy description. On the record, in the record.
If I become a business, then it's a whole other ballgame, then my insurance co is just an agent to another company that underwrites the policies for businesses for them. It is very confusing and it did take a good part of the day to sort out.
This is important and I'm glad you brought it up again.

That' a way!!!

No big nasty surprises for you.

truegem · #59 2011-04-14, 1:32am

If you are selling on Etsy, is that considered selling from the home?

junko · #60 2011-04-14, 5:11am

A couple of years ago I got business insurance for my pottery business. We went to an independent agent to totally redo all of our insurance because I was afraid we would get dropped from our current insurance if they knew I had kilns in the house.

Had to have an insurance inspector come and look at the kilns, equipment, etc.

I ended up with the Hartford for my business insurance. Eek! Guess I'll need to do some more research now!