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  #1  
Old 2012-03-09, 5:27pm
Signguy Signguy is offline
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Default Bethlehem Bravo with 3@ M-15 Oxycons

As promised, this is a follow-up to my previous reviews and reports regarding my Bravo and oxycons vs tanked.

I'm happy to say that Jack fixed me up with a third M-15 oxycon which just found a home under my studio bench a few days ago.

Now I've had a chance to hook it up along with the other two and see how it performs with the upgrade from two M-15's to three M-15's.

Basically all I did was take the tubing running into my 11 gallon holding tank and add one more T-fitting to it. So now all three oxycons are feeding into the holding tank (instead of just two).

I have been running the first two at a lower output (about 6) in order to maximize the purity as I have found that with the holding tank this gives you the best of both worlds - plenty of oxy on demand (because it builds up in the tank, and hotter/better flame because the purity increases). So, I just set the third one the same way.

Started them all up, gave it a few minutes to build some tank pressure, lit up the Bravo and WOW!! This set-up rages! I've attached some photos below showing the kind of large flame size/quality I am getting, and I have to say it is pretty much identical now to what I was getting on tanked oxy (which I also have and can switch over to at will).

And, I don't even have the oxy all the way open in order to get this - I can actually make it even bigger with larger candles if I want to.

As a double-check, I let it run for over 30 minutes and had no change in the flame, and did not ever empty the holding tank. So it actually is running this well without even counting on the reserves in the holding tank to fill in as needed.

There is literally no significant difference between this set-up and my tanked set-up...I never dreamed that the third unit would make this much difference!

I'm a happy guy. As a matter of fact, I think my Oxy tank and regulator are about to hit the Garage Sale as I can't see why I need them any longer.

So, for those of you who have been wondering, IMHO, The Bravo runs on 1 M-15 (but with significantly compromised performance), runs pretty well on two M-15's (quite acceptable but not as good as tanked), and runs pretty much 100% on three M-15's.

My recommendation if you want the best buy in torch land is totally to get a Bravo with 3@ M-15's.

This set-up gives you a lot of bang for the buck. The torch is hundreds cheaper then others, sturdier and has both a terrific pin-point flame and a pretty massive outer flame. It works great for soft glass and boro glass.

At current pricing the M-15's are only $300 - so you can have 3 of them for under $1,000 and never buy oxy again. In contrast, I paid about $350 for a K-tank and regulator, and I burn a $15 tank up about every 4 hours - so it does not take long to recapture the somewhat larger investment in the oxycons instead of the tank system.

Hope this info is of help to others - happy torching!





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  #2  
Old 2012-03-09, 7:31pm
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Sweet!!
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  #3  
Old 2012-03-09, 8:07pm
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Sounds likes it is just the ticket.

Question on your Rod Rest, that's what it is that I'm seeing on your bench, right?
Where did you get it? It's really nice.
Thanks....Val
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  #4  
Old 2012-03-09, 8:16pm
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It's from blast shield. You can get it with one rod or two. Not the cheapest way to hold your rods, but lifetime quality and very elegant.

The blast shield and marver on the torch are also from them.

As are a bunch of other toys not visible in the photo...

Great folks, great quality, great prices.
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  #5  
Old 2012-03-09, 11:33pm
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Never heard of them, do you have a link?
Thanks...Val
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Old 2012-03-10, 4:11am
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http://theblastshield.com/

Wow that does rage! I don't think I've ever opened up my bravo that far. Although if I had an unlimited supply of oxy I might. Although with that many oxy cons I'd need to rewire my studio. My house only has an 80 amp service.

Have you considered adding a home fill unit to the mix so that you can take your tanks on the road?
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Last edited by Dragonharper; 2012-03-10 at 7:27am. Reason: Spelling
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  #7  
Old 2012-03-10, 6:36am
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Like your raging flame. Is a foot pedal next? Your work area looks too clean and organized (lol). Thanks for all the great info. & pic, a job well done.
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  #8  
Old 2012-03-10, 7:58am
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I am definitely looking to add a foot pedal next. Probably a rock-it, I'm feeling like its worth the extra money to go mechanical instead of electrical for the solonoids so I think I'm going to buy one, not build one. I see some real safety and reliability advantages...

I've looked at the home fill, but given the performance I am getting it seems like not a good investment for my setup. I have all the pressure and purity I need and all 3 oxycons cost about the same as one home fill, plus no expense for tanks, not time to fill, and one less device in the house.

Not sure about the electrical, but my impression is that the oxycons don't normally draw as much as they are rated for. Although the three are supposed to pull 15 amps, I don't think I am anywhere near that as I have all three plus a bunch of smaller stuff like the vent fan, warmer, etc. all running just fine off one 15 amp circuit. One of these days I'll pull a load measurement and see what I get.

Happy torching!

Erik
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  #9  
Old 2012-03-10, 9:03am
2CoolBeads 2CoolBeads is offline
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So I'm sure there is a post somewhere that explains this "Basically all I did was take the tubing running into my 11 gallon holding tank " - can you link to how you set that up?
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  #10  
Old 2012-03-10, 9:46am
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Don't get rid of your tank(s). They always seem to come in handy down the road. you never know!

I have heard some bad reviews of the rock-it and other mechanical foot pedals. Seems to me that anything mechanical can/will breakdown and will be more expensive to repair than a solenoid coil. Solenoids have no way to leak if the basic connections are sound.
Just my opinion however.
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  #11  
Old 2012-03-10, 11:34am
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There is a thread but I don't remember the posters name. It should be findable with a search, I'll look later when I have more time.

Basically you buy an 11 gla compressed air holding tank, take off the hose that comes with, remove the valve from the filling port and you end up with just a tank with an input and an output fitting that you can attach your hose to.

The oxycons just have ordinary plastic tubing coming off each and into a T fitting you can buy at Lowes or HD - both are where the stock the water line stuff in the plumbing dept.

You then run the end of the hose that loops off the T's into the input on the tank and clamp it on. The output gets a oxy hose clamped on and it runs to your torch.

It's really simple. If I gat a chance I'll take some pictures this weekend and post them.

Bottom line is that with about 50-$75 in parts (mostly the tank) you can massively improve the oxycons performance, not have to choose between feeding the inner or outer more, and eliminate all surging.

Works great!
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  #12  
Old 2012-03-10, 11:39am
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As regards the foot pedals, I agree the electronic are easier to fix, and I could build one for 1/4 the price.

But I am kind of a safety nut, and like to go with the best tools as well and the mechanical seems to me to win on both counts.

First, you have no electricity right next to your gas lines. Second you have no humm or overheating from having the electrical solonoids keep the outer on for long periods. Third, it's one less thing to shut off when you are done. Fourth the rock it has the attachment points well above the ground and more out of gas accumulation range which seems safer. Fifth, it's been around forever and is pretty well proven. Sixth, one less power draw in an overloaded studio. Seventh, when it's not in use it is off, just sitting there - where as an electric one still has a modest chance of overload or electrical issues even when not being used.

So while I don't think it I'd a clear cut argument either way, based on what I have found so far, it seems like if you can afford to pay the premium one is likely to be better off in the long term with the mechanical one.

But that's just my current thoughts - have no real agenda here, and am no expert!
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  #13  
Old 2012-03-10, 12:09pm
Talonst Talonst is offline
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Here's the link for the holding tank tutorial.

http://www.treycornette.com/category_23/Tutorials.htm
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  #14  
Old 2012-03-10, 12:12pm
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That's it, thanks!
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  #15  
Old 2012-03-10, 12:12pm
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I've got a rock-it on my Bravo and I love it! The last I had a class a CMoG the torch and the foot pedal caused serious salivation

The best thing about a foot pedal is the burst of heat then back to normal. If you are on tanks it's a big $$$ saver!. I made 2 MIBS this morning between 1.25 and 1.375 inches. nit quite 2 hours of torch time and I only depleted my 120 CuFt tank by 200 PSI!
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Old 2012-03-10, 8:20pm
2CoolBeads 2CoolBeads is offline
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Thank you both for the info and link! - I appreciate you taking the time
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  #17  
Old 2012-03-10, 8:23pm
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Nice peeking into your world
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  #18  
Old 2012-03-11, 10:07am
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Thanks for the pics. I want that oxygen set-up.

I read that mechanical switches didn't work well with the low pressure of concentrators, but then, they might have been talking about 5psi models.

Also, would you please copy this post to the torch questions subsection? I think this would be most usefully archived there.

Last edited by dusty; 2012-03-11 at 10:16am. Reason: added request
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  #19  
Old 2012-03-11, 5:57pm
Signguy Signguy is offline
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Default Oxycon set up pix

As promised here are pix showing how simple the set up is...

This is the plastic tubing coming off the "christmas tree" adaptor which Jack includes with each oxycon (alternatively you could go get one at any home care supplier - they just screw on to the standard B-fitting).



This shows the two "T's" connecting the plastic tubing from each of the three oxycons into the main line.



This shows the connection in and out of the tank I made using the Tut referenced below. The tank came from Harbor freight and was less then $50. I used an 11 gal tank, but a smaller one will also work for less $$$ if you don't have much demand.



Hope this helps make it easy for anyone else who is interested in improving their oxycon set-up.
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  #20  
Old 2012-03-11, 5:59pm
Signguy Signguy is offline
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Hi Dusty,

I'm nor sure how to copy or move the whole thread to another place...do I need to ask CorrieDawn to take care of it?

I've also emailed Griffen to ask about if pressure matters on the foot pedal. I'll post what i find out. Frankly, I never thought of that!
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  #21  
Old 2013-12-07, 1:48pm
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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Awesome it looks like I need to look at 3 of the M-15's. Do you know if they will be enough to power it without having a tank, I mean if I fed them directly to the torch?
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  #22  
Old 2013-12-07, 2:39pm
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I've seen several people say that the Bravo runs very well on 3 M-15s. The holding tank only makes minimal difference. It can give you a short burst of extra oxy when you need it on occasion and can help even out the flames "breathing" that can come from using concentrators. You can get away without one and add one later if you decide you want it. If you're just getting started, you can probably also get away with 2 M-15s and then add a third one down the road a ways if you don't want to pay for 3 at once.

I use an electrical foot pedal with a pair of Regalias and a holding tank and it works great. You can make one for $150ish vs $350-400 to purchase one. Keep in mind, though, that most concentrators (the Regalia is an exception) should not be run with the torch knob closed, so, from what I've heard, you need some sort of valve to release the oxy if you're hooking the concentrators up to the outer.
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Last edited by artsyuno; 2013-12-07 at 2:46pm.
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  #23  
Old 2013-12-07, 3:30pm
jcrawford jcrawford is offline
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I was wondering because I may get a landlord to allow torching on premises if there is no tanked and it's generated as used because that would lower any explosion concerns they would have if any lol
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  #24  
Old 2013-12-07, 4:03pm
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Oh, you meant tanked oxy? I thought you meant holding tank. You can run the torch with concentrators alone. You may not get quite as much heat, but unless you're completely maxing out your torch (something I rarely do), you'll likely be fine with just the concentrators. If you are asking about a holding tank, it is important to know that it is not pressurized. The oxy simply holds and flows through it at the same pressure the concentrators put out. It's not a high risk thing. As far as I know, tanked oxy isn't either, as long as you're careful in transporting it and you chain up your tank so that it can't be knocked over. Propane is the bigger issue. You'll need to keep that tank outdoors.
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Last edited by artsyuno; 2013-12-08 at 10:41am.
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  #25  
Old 2013-12-08, 6:27am
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istandalone24/7 istandalone24/7 is offline
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tanked oxy is only as dangerous as the person using it. they say not to smoke around oxy tanks...but then you see someone welding about 2' away...kind of hypocritical eh?

and if the OP of this thread was killing a k tank in 4 hours, he had major leaks and/or very inefficient working style.
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  #26  
Old 2013-12-08, 11:05am
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The reason to not smoke around oxy tanks is that the enriched oxy atmosphere can cause the cigarette to combust rapidly when the person takes a draw and cause serious burns to throat and or lungs.

It is supprising to most people how little heat can damage your throat and lungs and kill you. I had a friend who pushed in an access door to a boiler that had no pressure on it. When the door swung open a waif of steam vapor drifted out caused by the currents of the door moving. He made an involuntary inhalation of some of that vapor and died 2 days later.
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  #27  
Old 2014-04-25, 6:37pm
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Hi, kind of an irrelevant question... But I am considering tanked vs oxycon for my first setup and am wondering if you have any trouble getting colors to pop that are hungry for 02 with that setup? Also, is It possible to buy a $1000 oxycon that has higher psi and lpm instead of having 3, or is there a reason for that setup... Thank you!
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  #28  
Old 2014-11-24, 11:35am
RunningOnFumes RunningOnFumes is offline
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That is a great question... I wish someone with knowledge will reply? Also the http://www.treycornette.com/category_23/Tutorials.htm link for the holding tank is dead. I tried to contact Trey a few weeks ago but no response yet
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  #29  
Old 2014-11-24, 11:48am
nevadaglass nevadaglass is offline
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Decided to chime in even though it's neither here nor there - I am running the bravo with 2 holding tanks, 2 m-15's and a hurricane plus am using the Bethlehem mechanical foot pedal - so far the setup is working. I just recently switched up the setup.

So here is my setup.

OXY:
Hurricane - into a 5 gal holding, out of the holding connected directly to inner fire of torch. ( may consider swapping the 5 gal out for an 11 but already had the 5 not being utilized so I snagged it)

2 m-15's linked together into an 11 gal holding, out of the holding into the foot pedal, out of the foot pedal to the outer fire of torch.

Propane:

propane comes out of tank to a y connector with shutoff valves - one side of y directly to the inner fire - other side of y down to foot pedal, up to outer fire.

I originally had the Hurricane connected to outer, but decided the output of the 2 m-15's was higher so I switched them so the m-15's run the outer fire.

I also just changed my settings and reduced propane so that I am running 2 psi propane and about 7 psi of O2 - I work mainly in boro and am not having any real issues other than with skills hahahaha

Last edited by nevadaglass; 2014-11-24 at 11:53am.
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Old 2014-12-03, 10:29am
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whether you can get silver colors to "pop" using an oxycon is directly related to what torch you run (and other factors, such as keeping the haze off etc) but two m15's on a minor will get the minor burner almost as hot as tanked.
now take those same two oxycons, hook them up to a redmax and try making the same thing with the same colors.....they won't look the same.

but can you get good colors with oxycons? absolutely. is it as easy as on tanked or lox? nope. some colors are also easier to coax the color out.
like r108 raku. hell you can strike that stuff on a hothead if you know what your doing.
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