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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2006-10-18, 8:56pm
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Default anybody else get "sunburned"...

... while working at the torch? i don't work my torch (minor bench burner) all that hot, and i don't feel that i don't put my face too close to the flame... but frequently after working for two hours or so, i end up looking like a raccoon. any suggestions?
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  #2  
Old 2006-10-18, 9:15pm
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Wear sunscreen.
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  #3  
Old 2006-10-18, 11:40pm
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Yes! Definitely wear sunscreen, and always wear it on your hands, as they get the worst exposure and you don't want old-lady hands any earlier than you'll get them anyway.
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Old 2006-10-19, 12:57am
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OMG This was just too funny! Sorry for the sunburn but I just loved that raccoon comment!
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  #5  
Old 2006-10-19, 1:58am
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Beginners question: is it really sunburn or is your skin just getting dry from the heat? Would regular facial cream be enough, or would I really have to wear sunscreen? Please advice.
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Old 2006-10-19, 4:56am
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i'm thinking its just dry skin from the heat. Not really sunburn tho it probably feels like it! I even get dry eyes and I have on glasses and goggles. Maybe lotionize yourself before and after?
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  #7  
Old 2006-10-19, 5:03am
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Also raise your torch up higer if you can. So the heat is not coming up in to your face as much. If my torch is too low on my bench I fry my forhead to the point it will blister and peel. If I raise the torch up to about rib level the heat goes up and away from me.
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  #8  
Old 2006-10-19, 5:48am
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No to just moisturizer and YES to sunblock/sunscreen.

It's your face and your choice. Seriously, you have been given good advice on the sunscreen but whether you listen or not, your choice. I'm 52 and don't have much interest in having 80 year old skin yet. lol

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  #9  
Old 2006-10-19, 5:51am
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It is a type of sunburn from the IR (heat energy) from the torch. Sunscreen will take care of it and it will moisturize your skin. Note that you will have issues keeping your glasses on your face, be sure to wear the head cord to keep the glasses from slipping.
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  #10  
Old 2006-10-19, 6:02am
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Yeah. And don't make the mistake I did...

Wash your hands before you pick up your glass. Sunscreen + glass = glass in my lap
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  #11  
Old 2006-10-19, 8:26am
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thanks everyone, for your advice... i'll start wearing sunscreen. and i never before really considered damage to my hands since they've not burned (or maybe i just didn't notice it).
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  #12  
Old 2006-10-19, 9:06am
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Good to know. Thanks, everyone!
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  #13  
Old 2006-10-19, 9:17am
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It's not just dryness, because it reddens like sunburn. It's a burn. I was wondering if sunscreen would help, because I know sunscreen is designed to block UV rays. Does sunscreen block IR, too?

Definitely do the hands. It's the hands that give the age away. Don't forget your forearms, if you push your sleeves up (I always do, and I had a nice little trucker's burn with a watch mark after an afternoon with my Lynx).

And don't forget your neck!

If your skin isn't fish-belly white (also known as "bloated corpse pallor," except to cosmetics companies, who call it things like "ivory" and "porcelain") this might not be an issue for you. It's a pretty mild burn. Redheads and blondes, though, need to pay attention.
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Last edited by Emily; 2006-10-19 at 9:22am.
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  #14  
Old 2006-10-19, 10:51am
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Thank you for all the information.
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  #15  
Old 2006-10-19, 11:26am
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I have rosecea and it bothers that, too. I am always a little itchy after torching. I never thought about the sunscreen. It's a great idea!
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Old 2006-10-19, 1:03pm
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I never thought that torches would have enough IR to give a sunburn! I weld almost every day and use torches as much and never got a burn except for Arc welding.

Wonder if it affects everyone or if it might be more depending on skin sensitivity?

I never got a flash from my Mini CC as of yet!
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  #17  
Old 2006-10-19, 1:35pm
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Isn't it more a redness from the heat? I don't think sunscreen will keep you from getting red but it will help protect your skin from losing mositure. People can get red from getting hot and sweaty just working indoors and not exposed to sunlight or a torch flame. Just working in a hot kitchen can make your face turn red.

It's important to keep hydrated (drink water not soda) before, during and after torching which will help dry skin from the inside out. After I torch I wash my face and hands and then mositurize while my skin is damp. Dry skin is lacking moisture from water not oils.
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Old 2006-10-19, 4:33pm
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No, it's not redness from being too warm. That goes away pretty quickly once you cool down. This redness sticks around just like a mild sunburn. I also had a nice white stripe where my watch was, and marks showing the neck opening of my shirt. You don't get those when you're flushed from heat.

I think you have to have sensitive skin or be using a pretty big torch. (I wonder if hot shop workers use sunscreen?) I have really sensitive skin -- see comments above about fish-belly complexion.

There are some medications that increase sun sensitivity, too. Some antibiotics, I think -- can't remember what else, but I think it's not uncommon. People should pay attention, because it might make a difference when you're torching, and putting on a little sunscreen isn't a difficult or burdensome thing to do.
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  #19  
Old 2006-10-19, 4:45pm
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Yup....wear that sunscreen!!! I am as Emily puts it fishbelly pale and burn really easily. I always wear a sunscreen on my face even when I'm not torching and wear it on my hands especially if I'm going to be torching for an extended period of time. I'd rather be safe than sorry as several members of my family have dealt with skin cancer and it isn't pretty.
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  #20  
Old 2006-10-19, 10:37pm
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So this is why my face has been red for the last three years! I don't know why I never considering the possibility that the flame would cause a "sunburn"! I thought maybe I was developing rosacea in my late 30's. But I probably should see a dermatologist anyway just to make sure it's not that.

It's red about the cheeks mostly and last week I did a 10 hour session and finished with the raccoon eyes. That was my first clue that the torch is causing it.
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  #21  
Old 2006-10-20, 8:19am
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In my (limited) experience, the problem is worse with boro, which flares much brighter than the soft glasses. Using a monster torch with much boro for much too long can pretty much fry reddish-blondes such as myself, as I learned the hard way the first time I fired up a CC++. Hadn't been cooked like that since the first time I picked up a welder, so I've considered them equals ever since.

Sunblock alone won't handle the big torch/hard glass scenario (at least for me) and I don't go there now without protective sleeves, gloves, and a buttoned-up denim (at least) shirt. If I could find a UV/IR blocking faceshield, I'd use it too.

Of course, if I tanned like my pretty wife instead of frying, I might see things differently.

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  #22  
Old 2006-10-24, 12:48am
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I'm confused. I thought sunscreen protected you from UV rays, not infrared rays.

Are there UV rays from torching?

I have not had this sunburn thing.

I don't think they make PABA sunscreen anymore. So many people are allegic to it. I used some one my face once and my whole face got like burned from the sunscreen. My lips peeled. It was awful.

I hate using untried moisturizers. Especailly after last year's experience with Retinol. I haven't used a sunscreen at all this year.

One thing I know, I break out in hives from the sun, but not the torch.
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Old 2006-10-24, 1:28am
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I noticed dry skin to when I started torching. I use sunblock 45 that covers both UVA and UVB rays seems to help. I noticed sever dry eye after I started torching and started to use eye drops every hour or so. Not so many problems now.
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Old 2006-10-24, 1:35am
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I think the dry eye thing might be caused by the same thing that using the computer does. We just blink less often when we are torching.

I don't usually torch more than an hour at a time.
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Old 2006-10-24, 3:00am
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I can't get much done in an hour so I usually go about 6 hours but I do take a break in between each bead because of the dry eye. I use contac lenses also. I don't think that helps either.
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Old 2006-10-24, 4:53am
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6 hours! I can't even sleep 6 hours straight! lol
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Old 2006-10-24, 5:44am
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I love learning more details and the technical side of it.
The following info is pertains to welders using more powerful torches, but the science is all the same, although, for most of us, on much smaller scale.

I'm fortunate in that my face doesn't even get a hint of color no matter how long I am at the torch. I don't experience even the slightest thermal burn.

Protective eye wear is a must and sunscreen can't hurt.

ULTRAVIOLET RADIATION

Ultraviolet radiation (UV) is generated by the electric arc in the welding process. Skin exposure to UV can result in severe burns, in many cases without prior warning. UV radiation can also damage the lens of the eye. Many arc welders are aware of the condition known as "arc-eye," a sensation of sand in the eyes. This condition is caused by excessive eye exposure to UV. Exposure to ultraviolet rays may also increase the skin effects of some industrial chemicals (coal tar and cresol compounds, for example).

INFRARED RADIATION

Exposure to infrared radiation (IR), produced by the electric arc and other flame cutting equipment may heat the skin surface and the tissues immediately below the surface. Except for this effect, which can progress to thermal burns in some situations, infrared radiation is not dangerous to welders. Most welders protect themselves from IR (and UV) with a welder's helmet (or glasses) and protective clothing.
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Old 2006-10-24, 5:57am
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Torch temperatures are not hot enough to generate UV (flame temp needs to be around 5,000 F, propane flame is about 3,800 F). Some small amounts of UV are generated by certain colors and fuming operations, however, these amounts are so small as to be practically non-existant.

Working with quartz will, however, generate substantial quantities of UV.
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  #29  
Old 2006-10-24, 6:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotty dots
Hi all!

<snipped for clarity>
Ever heard of "Glass blower's Blindness" ? It comes from prolonged exposure to UV (A), UV (B) and IR (Infra red radiation). The lens of the eye is eventually "Cooked" and opacifies causing Cataracts to form.

<snipped for clarity>

There is no safe threshold limit value on UV exposure. That means the occupational hygienists don't know how little or how much will cause skin damage/ cancers. They do know that uv radiation is a known carcinogen.

So, Providing physical barriers ie; sunscreens, long sleeved clothing etc, will save us all a lot of grief.

Also, doesn't matter what skin colour/ type you have - over time the effect is the same.
Uhhhhh, no. As I stated above glassblowers (including torch workers) are NOT exposed to UV UNLESS they are working with quartz. The temperatures of the glass/torch flame/furnace/glory hole simply are not hot enough to generate UV.

This is a fairly common misconception among glassworkers of all kinds. It has become urban legend among the glassworking community.

So, let me state it again, UV is not the issue. It is and always has been IR.

Skin color as well as eye color *DOES* affect your exposure limits. Blond blue eyed (northern european) peoples have a much lower threshold of exposure damage than equatorial (including african descent, Indian and Asian) peoples with dark skin and brown eyes. This has been very well documented over the years.

OSHA and NIOSH have TLV (threshold limit values) for both IR and UV. These are stated by the ACGIH (American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygenists) and the US Department of Labor Occupational Safety and Health Administration.

In 1998 NIOSH did a study at the SGB (Society of Glass Beadmakers) (now the ISGB) at the annual convention in Corning NY. They studied a variety of issues, including eye exposure during the beadmaking process. The study is available from NIOSH, the number is HETA 98-0139-2769.

Here, in part is what the study revealed:

UV: levels of both near (315 to 400 nm) and actinic (200 to 315 nm) UV radiation were measured on all the exhibition processes. In every case, no actinic radiation was detected. The maximim level of near UV radiation was 0.1 mw per square centimeter as measured at the operators face. These levels of near and actinic UV radiation are below the TLV and are not considered to be an optical or skin hazard to the unprotected worker.

IR: Exposure to IR radiation could occur from 3 major sources: torches, kiln furnaces and heated material used in the beadmaking process. Measured IR levels at the workers face ranged from 16 to 400 mW/CM2. The 400 mW/CM2 was measured when the worker was loading material into the furnace at approximately 6 to 9 inches away.

The IR TLV for unprotected workers is based on avoiding thermal injury of the cornea and lenticular cataracts. The IR exposure is limited to 10 mw/CM2 for time periods greater than or equal to 1000 seconds (about 16.5 minutes).

********** end of extract

As you can see, the TLV for IR exposure can routinely be exceeded by any unprotected beadmaker who works longer than 16 and a half minutes on a single bead, and my guess is that most of us do take at least that long on a moderately complex bead, if not longer.

Didymium and AUR-92 (ACE) lenses pass approximately 75% of IR radiation (which reduces the radiation exposure by 25%). In most cases, this is usually sufficient for most soft glass beadmakers.

Borosilicate workers on the other hand do require a minimum of a welders shade 3 (or dedicated IR filter) protection to filter out the excessive IR radiation resulting from the higher temperature glass and the hotter kiln.

Hopefully this additional information will put to rest the mis-information presented in "spotty dots" post.
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  #30  
Old 2006-10-24, 9:36am
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Ahh, specifics! Yes! thank you.
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