Diamond Clear incompatibility?

tracidawn78 · #1 2009-04-25, 10:27am

So I torched most of the night last night. To my dismay this morning when I pulled everything out of the kiln, 3/4 of the beads were cracked right down the middle. I couldn't figure out what I did wrong cause I made everything like I normally do, and I hardly ever get thermal cracks. Then it dawned on me... I just got 1lb of diamond clear yesterday and I used that to encase everything. It's gotta be the diamond clear... right? Is there a trick to using it? Do I have to anneal longer or hotter? My kiln is at 935 and they were in there for at least 2 hours a piece, same as I normally do. Should I only use this with Precision 104 glass? That really sucks cause I mostly use DH and TAG. Here's the glass I used, if anyone has any ideas...

3 beads on the left: DH TerraNova 2.1 encased with Diamond Clear.
3 beads on the right: small base of CIM Hades, encased in DH T-256, encased in Diamond Clear.

Also, do I need to be worried about the ones that didn't crack? Do you think they'll be ok, or is there a good chance they will crack still?

Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I really want this glass to work because it is SO smooth and clear.

tiggybubba · #2 2009-04-25, 10:30am

every single one of them look like thermal cracks. If it were incapatibility, the cracks would be jagged and not straight. Perhaps your kiln is not calibrated correctly?

tracidawn78 · #3 2009-04-25, 10:32am

If that were the case then it was something that happened between torching on Thursday night and torching on Friday night. I made the same beads both nights, the only difference being I used Diamond Clear instead of Vetro or Moretti clear.

tracidawn78 · #4 2009-04-25, 10:34am

And I don't know if this matters, but the cracks don't split the bead perfectly in 1/2. There's a crack on each side, but if you were to break the bead along the cracks, you'd have probably 2/3 on one half and 1/3 on the other half.

Imaglassgal · #5 2009-04-25, 10:34am

Are you holding at 935 for 2+ hours then crashing or gradually decreasing before turning off your kiln?

Marina

tracidawn78 · #6 2009-04-25, 10:37am

Gradually decreasing. I just went with the bead annealing program that came with the kiln instructions, heh. It hasn't been a problem until now. It's a Paragon Caldera with a bead collar. Hold at 935 the entire time I'm working, let it stay at 935 at least 45 minutes after the last bead goes in, ramp down slowly to 700, hold that at 30, then it's done. I'm sure that's completely wrong somehow, but it's what it's been set at since I got it in December and I've never had problems like this, even with the exact same beads. The only difference that I can think of is Diamond Clear. Should I alter my kiln settings for the Diamond Clear and try it again?

TeRangiStudio · #7 2009-04-25, 10:41am

Yeap, happened with my Terranova 2.1 beads too. Encased with Diamond Clear, eight out of lentil lentils cracked along the mandrel. And no, I don't believe it's thermal cracking!
I'm very frustrated about this, because until now I was absolutely 100% happy with Diamond clear.

tracidawn78 · #8 2009-04-25, 10:42am

Wait, you too? With the new TerraNova 2.1? Do you have any T-256?

TeRangiStudio · #9 2009-04-25, 10:43am

And yes, my cracks were looking the same. Didn't really cut the bead in half, only shows a crack around 1/2 way down. One of the eight cracked beads had actually a grack going from one side to the other (not fully), not along the mandrel.
sorry, can't make photos, I was so appalled that I threw them in the rubbish right away.

I don't think it's the kiln settings! I am pretty convinced by now it's a Terranova 2/1 - Diamond Clear issue.

Imaglassgal · #10 2009-04-25, 10:43am

I would have thought that your program would be sufficient. I'll watch with interest to see if someone else has the answer.

It's strange because I agree that type of crack is usually a thermal problem rather than a compatability problem.

Marina

Jayne · #11 2009-04-25, 10:44am

I hold at 950, and when my program starts, it stays at 950 for 2 hours. Then it slowly ramps down. Maybe the diamond clear likes it hotter? for longer? Or maybe they went in too cool? I've never tried the diamond clear. But all those beautiful broken beads would make me cry!

tracidawn78 · #12 2009-04-25, 10:47am

Yeah, I'm pretty peeved about the 3 beads on the right. I was thrilled with the colors I got from that combo. The TN2.1 beads weren't that great anyway. I've been working on that set for about a week now (I can only make like 2-3 of the same beads in a sitting before I get bored so I'm always working on like 6 things at once) and the ones I made earlier in the week had much better colors. I'm going to try the 3 on the right again today but un-retire my crap clear and suffer through that. Maybe I'll be lucky and my Aether 3rds will show up today.

tracidawn78 · #13 2009-04-25, 10:48am

BTW - there are more that cracked, these are just the ones I laid out for the picture. There's only about 5 beads from yesterday that aren't cracked, but I'm afraid to keep them now.

TeRangiStudio · #14 2009-04-25, 10:50am

Yes, it's the new Terranova 2.1. Got it 2 weeks ago and made a really nice set this week - as mentioned, it landed in the rubbish.
The cracks appeared all within 2 -6 hours of taking them out of the kiln & cleaning them.

I do have T-256 and I made one set encased with Diamond Clear. Only one of the 11 beads cracked and I was convinced that it was a problem with me admiring it too long before putting in kiln. I had the set for 2 weeks at home before it was sold on Etsy. During these two weeks it was "manhandled" by me & my kids several times, and there were no new cracks showing up.

I normally encase everything with Diamond clear - no matter if it's DH, precision, Tag, Effetre, Moretti and until now I never had any problems. At all. It's my favorite clear (besides Aether obviously, but that's just not always available) and that's why I was blaming rather the Terranova2.1 for the problems.

But now I'm getting a bit unsure about who's to blame, because you have the same issues with T-256. Argh, just when you thought you have finally found a clear that's perfect.

TeRangiStudio · #15 2009-04-25, 10:52am

Just remember that I actually made already 2 sets of T-256. The other set didn't have any cracks either. That makes only 1 bead out of 19 cracked.

tracidawn78 · #16 2009-04-25, 10:53am

Can you try to make a couple of rounds like I did with the T-256? I'd like to see if they crack too. It's just a small barrel of hades, encased in T-256 and I let the Hades peek out of the sides a bit, then encased all that in Diamond Clear. The round is 1/2" in diameter.

AKDesigns · #17 2009-04-25, 11:01am

I recently got a batch of Diamond Clear and I've used it to encase a lot lately. TN2, T265 and original Terra along with a lot of other silver glass and all my beads are fine. I do notice that a lot of people just shut their kiln off at 700 degrees. I ramp down slowly to 400....and I mean slowly, before shutting off. I think my annealing schedule is 13 hours long. Probably overkill but it makes me comfortable knowing that if something cracks, it's not from my annealing schedule so it makes it easier to figure out the problem.

AKDesigns · #18 2009-04-25, 11:03am

Another thing....when I encase striking glass I still anneal at 980.

tracidawn78 · #19 2009-04-25, 11:08am

Do I need to worry about kiln-striking something if it's that high, Amy?

AKDesigns · #20 2009-04-25, 11:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracidawn78

Do I need to worry about kiln-striking something if it's that high, Amy?

Mine don't if they're encased. I would do a test bead for each different glass and see before doing an entire set though.

tracidawn78 · #21 2009-04-25, 11:13am

Yeah, I will. I wasted a good portion of my T-256 last night and I'm down to 2 rods, and DH is sold out of this color. I should have bought more, I absolutely love it.

TeRangiStudio · #22 2009-04-25, 11:14am

I ramp down extremely slowly, it's ridiculous by any means. So I don't think it has anything to do with ramping down too fast.
And why would it only effect Terranova2.1 encased in Diamond Clear, and not any of the other colors? I used the same silver color annealing cycle I always use: 248 F for 2 hours, than slooooooooowly ramping down.

TeRangiStudio · #23 2009-04-25, 11:15am

Tracy - are you sure they're out of T-256? I can see it in the Test Kitchen http://www.doublehelixglassworks.com/testbatches.aspx

tracidawn78 · #24 2009-04-25, 11:19am

Oh you're right! I just went to the front page and didn't see it there. I'll pick some up today. I guess that creation station will have to wait a little longer

AKDesigns · #25 2009-04-25, 11:19am

It really looks thermal. However, I once had an issue with encasing Fish Pink with Terra and I had the kiln at 935 because I didn't encase with clear. I thought I would get rid of the Fish Pink this way and stretch out the Terra at the same time. These were small spacer sized round beads and every freaking one snapped in half as I took them off the mandrel. That was the very last time I did the encasing trick to stretch any silver glass out. I know just about everyone else does it but I don't anymore.

tracidawn78 · #26 2009-04-25, 11:23am

The 3 on the left were just TN2.1 and Diamond clear. I didn't use anything to stretch out the TN2.1. The 3 on the right I put over Hades because I made a small set of crystals that were only TE-256 and clear and I didn't get the colors I wanted out of it. It looked much better over black, which is why there's 3 layers in the 3 on the right.

AKDesigns · #27 2009-04-25, 11:28am

I was just gifted with some T256 so I can try encasing that with Diamond Clear tomorrow and see what happens.

TeRangiStudio · #28 2009-04-25, 11:34am

My Tn2.1 beads didn't have a base. I don't use anything to stretch my silver glass either, learned from experience.
The T-256 beads (that didn't crack) I used on top of Vetrofond black and Opal Yellow.

Amy, I think about changing my annealing schedule for striking glass. Until now I used the same that I use for all silver colors (see above). But I guess there is no point in annealing it at such a low temperature, because there's no reduction that I could lose.
And I don't mind some more kiln-striking, because I actually prefer the colors to be a bit lighter. Especially the Terranovas

.
So I will give it another try this weekend with a higher annealing temperature, everything else the same. let's see if we can get to the bottom of this.

tracidawn78 · #29 2009-04-25, 11:35am

I just went downstairs and looked at the beads again, and some of the ones that hadn't cracked are now cracked

Top row: All TN2.1 with vetro or moretti clear, none are cracked.
Bottom row: All TN2.1 with Diamond Clear, and all cracked.

These were made last week with TE-256 and vetro or moretti clear, none cracked:

These were made yesterday with Hades, TE-256, and Diamond Clear. All of them are cracked:

AKDesigns · #30 2009-04-25, 11:35am

I only use a lower annealing temp when I use un-encased striking glass. Other than that, everything else gets annealed at 980.