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2013-12-10, 7:23pm
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Entropy increasing....
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Join Date: Nov 12, 2005
Location: In a box of paints
Posts: 25,098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDesigns
I don't get the need for recognition.
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And what if you used multiple techniques and designs you learned from another tutorial on one piece? Do you have to give credit to each person? It just gets absurd.
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"I am an artist… I am here to live out loud." Emile Zola
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2013-12-10, 7:29pm
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Melody of Glass
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Join Date: Apr 08, 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevan
I'm just hoping all you bitches who bought my photography tutorial are making sure you are giving me credit on every photo you take from now on. Oh, and don't sell anything on Etsy that you used my tutorial to improve your photos!
See how ridiculous that is?
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I don't think you can realistically expect someone to pay to learn a technique and be restricted on what they can do with it. I think if you don't want it used, you ought not to sell it or teach it.
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Coming soon...
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2013-12-10, 7:44pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 31, 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,215
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About the only things you can't do are:
Duplicate the original document or pattern for distribution (free or otherwise)
Make a replica of a trademarked item and then affix or otherwise represent the item as a genuine trademarked item.
You can copy and sell items using other's designs at will without violating the law unless the design is registered, patented, or you make fraudulent claims about your copy when attempting to sell it. Does that have a lot of integrity? No. Do most people concern themselves with artistic integrity? I doubt it.
And then there is technique vs. design, and I think a lot of people selling technique get real confused about that.
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Kathy
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2013-12-14, 7:40pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 20, 2005
Location: Lufkin, Texas
Posts: 4,128
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This is interesting, because there was a lady who sold quilt patterns on line and ALL her patterns say that you can only make for yourself and the basic gist was if your tired of it use it for rags, she better never catch you selling it..
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Arlene
Lufkin, Texas
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2013-12-14, 7:50pm
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Sparkle Strumpet
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Join Date: Aug 16, 2005
Location: Port Saint Lucie, FL
Posts: 2,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Glass_Bash
This is interesting, because there was a lady who sold quilt patterns on line and ALL her patterns say that you can only make for yourself and the basic gist was if your tired of it use it for rags, she better never catch you selling it..
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And that makes me want to make one or a dozen and sell them in her back yard....
but, since I can't quilt....
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2013-12-23, 12:59pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 17, 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 121
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I have purchased just about every lampwork tutorial out there and taken tons of classes. It is my opinion, that if you are going to put yourself out there by selling your knowledge ... you have sold your knowledge and I have paid you for that knowledge. If you want to keep that knowledge to yourself, you should keep it to yourself. I Do Not agree someone should be photocopying or digitally forwarding your tutorial to someone else though, as that is the printed material you sold. I think I should be able to make what I was taught and sell it wherever and whenever I choose. The hope is that I would modify what I was taught into something of my own creation, but if I do not, I should be able to sell what I was taught. Just my opinion.
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2013-12-23, 1:52pm
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Etch Fiend Organic Junky
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Join Date: Mar 31, 2006
Location: Arvada (Denver), CO
Posts: 11,443
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If you purchase my tutorials, I full expect you to make the beads and sell them - that's the point!
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-Amber
Naos Glass and Jewelry Supply - ~*~ Custom Orders Happily Accepted~*~
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2013-12-23, 2:57pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 17, 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Naos*
If you purchase my tutorials, I full expect you to make the beads and sell them - that's the point!
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Happy Holidays Naos. Yes I have bought your tutorials. To tell you the truth I haven't sold many beads at all, nor have I even tried out a lot of the tutorials I have purchased. Now that I am making beads full time though, I will certainly be trying out all of the tutorials I purchased. Thanks for your comment.
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2013-12-23, 4:56pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 09, 2009
Location: Medford Oregon
Posts: 900
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An old proverb, "There is nothing new under the sun".
Whether that be the need for recognition or the fear and insecurity of losing profit.
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2013-12-24, 10:07pm
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Lava Maker
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Join Date: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Houston in the Lone Star State (TX)
Posts: 1,946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverlilly1
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ditto
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Ann DeHoff
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2014-01-06, 9:39pm
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Glass-aholic
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2007
Location: CT, tolland CT
Posts: 4,332
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I brought this point up with a tool tutorial here on LE a year or so ago... They wanted you to only make 1 tool with the tutorial and if you wanted to make more than one you had to buy additional tutorials... Oh and you couldn't post pics or discribe in the "my great tool" thread what it was cuz it would give it away... Uhh.. Okie dokie...... I'll spend $$ on something that I might not use...and don't know what it is exactly, and can't make more than one of, but simply a picture of the finished product would be sufficient to count as a tutorial apperently if I saw it.....ok
I agree.. What's the point. If you don't want it out there don't teach it. Don't share it.
Just for spite I went and made a free video tutorial of some boro on a 5lpm minor to share info... Cuz sharing is caring damn it!!!
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Minor 10lpm Oxy-Con + HH on Propylene . . . . . .
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WASHERS & TOPPERS - layering components for interchangeable glass topper and to use in other jewelry/metalwork.:
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2014-01-06, 10:07pm
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Loving learning
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Join Date: Oct 11, 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 11,654
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I bought that tutorial (the tool) & never made it because what if somebody sees me using it & makes one. I know, I know, but I didn't. Maybe I will now just because I did buy it.
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My current "hot" fantasy involves a senior discount on glass & tools!
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2014-01-06, 10:42pm
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Lava Maker
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Join Date: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Houston in the Lone Star State (TX)
Posts: 1,946
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It is kind of like a pattern company saying you can only make one dress with the pattern, but don't ever wear it because someone will see it.
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Ann DeHoff
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2014-01-07, 11:15am
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Glass-aholic
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2007
Location: CT, tolland CT
Posts: 4,332
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Eileen you should make 3.. The first two are just practice!
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Minor 10lpm Oxy-Con + HH on Propylene . . . . . .
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WASHERS & TOPPERS - layering components for interchangeable glass topper and to use in other jewelry/metalwork.:
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2014-01-07, 5:05pm
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Loving learning
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Join Date: Oct 11, 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 11,654
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My current "hot" fantasy involves a senior discount on glass & tools!
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2014-01-07, 7:40pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 03, 2009
Location: ohio
Posts: 453
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If someone makes something unusual and gets attention for it that is nice. They get to be associated for this item when you see it. If they tell you how to make the item they take the chance that not only can others make one, they might even make a better one.
What usually happens though is no two artists paint exactly the same picture so it never really is exactly the same. Plus, there's not as much excitement to share since it's been seen before. The best thing about these things is there is some small take away that helps your mind create something that is yours.
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Catherine Napier Designs
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2014-01-07, 7:47pm
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"Sinners have soul too"
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Join Date: Jun 26, 2005
Location: The beachy part of So Cal
Posts: 4,258
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I am so sorry, but if I bought a tutorial and it said that... I would make as many as I possibly could and sell the hell outta them. I'm bitchy that way.
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Donna
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2014-01-07, 8:09pm
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Otter
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Join Date: Sep 22, 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 662
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This subject always cracks me up. um instant download tutorials can be bought by anyone all over the world they can be made by the truck load and shipped in by the ton. You put out the step by step and anyone can do what ever they want with the information.
It amazes me that folks think they can control the information after they put it out.
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2014-01-10, 9:15am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 04, 2005
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 442
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If you put yourself out there to teach a technique, sell a tutorial, or a pattern I feel you are automatically giving permission for the student/buyer to create the pieces with the possibility of selling the creation. Most people put their own spin on the outcome whether it be changing colors or their own creativity that it would be hard to say they are violating some agreement. I was denied a place in a class to learn looming techniques from an instructor because she found out that I teach the same. She was so paranoid that I was going to teach her techniques or patterns. BUT she turns around and sells her patterns thru the bead shop that was offering the class or posts them on her OPEN facebook page. WHAT? You want to keep something proprietary - don't put it out there on YouTube, Facebook, classes, tutorials, etc.
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2014-01-10, 9:36am
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Lava Maker
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Join Date: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Houston in the Lone Star State (TX)
Posts: 1,946
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Yep! It's interesting that the best instructors/books/tutorials have been from people not so uptight. Is it me or just a personality thing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zen-mom
I am so sorry, but if I bought a tutorial and it said that... I would make as many as I possibly could and sell the hell outta them. I'm bitchy that way.
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Ann DeHoff
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2014-01-10, 9:39am
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Lava Maker
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Join Date: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Houston in the Lone Star State (TX)
Posts: 1,946
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Yep! It's interesting that the best instructors/books/tutorials have been from people not so uptight. Is it me or just a personality thing?
I do need to add, that I respect somone who says they are not going to teach their technique right now to anyone, but will in the future. That makes sense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zen-mom
I am so sorry, but if I bought a tutorial and it said that... I would make as many as I possibly could and sell the hell outta them. I'm bitchy that way.
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Ann DeHoff
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2014-01-13, 7:18pm
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Hat or Cake?
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Join Date: Nov 03, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 610
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You know the way Bead & Button mag frequently has articles about starting/growing/managing your jewelry business and selling your work?
They have a note in the magazine that says: "The designs in Bead&Button are for your personal enjoyment. The designs may not be taught or sold without permission."
Right. I'm waiting for the day when recipes state that you can make the dish at home, but if you open a restaurant, you can't sell the food. I wish I'd invented and copyrighted French fries.
Beth
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2014-01-13, 10:49pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 28, 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 354
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http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ40.pdf
...ummm...This document from the US Copy Right Office seems to say that jewelry designs can be copyrighted...
I know a patent attorney...I'll ask him if he has any insight on copyrights the next time I see him. I recently saw him and his wife and he was telling me that the laws regarding art work are different in Europe than in the US. My nephew is going to have a show in Copenhagen...and as we were chatting about it he [the lawyer] mentioned that in Europe the artist has some control over how their art is displayed even after it is sold...I had no idea that was true.
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Wendy Britt
"The creative process is a process of surrender, not control.” Julia Cameron
Scorpion on 2 concentrators
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2014-01-13, 11:57pm
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Hat or Cake?
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Join Date: Nov 03, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 610
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I'm sure you're right, Wendy, in that they can be copyrighted. There's a woman who sells at better shows around where I live and she proudly displays the fact that all of her bookmarks are copyrighted. She makes bookmarks that are beads on the end of a piece of softflex wire. She is very quick to tell you that no one is allowed to make bookmarks with wire and a bead on the end and if they do, they are violating the law.
I guess what I'm saying is, is such a right enforceable? Either practically or legally?
Are couture gowns and designer clothing considered art? I don't know, but I see almost-identical knock-offs pretty regularly. We know about companies like Pandora, Coach and Prada, etc., cracking down, but what are the chances that anything is truly enforceable with what most of us produce? I don't know.
It just seems odd to me that Bead&Button considers its audience to include small businesses/sellers, not just hobbyists, and yet they say you can't use anything they print in your business transactions.
Beth
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2014-01-14, 12:06am
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Storm Queen
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Join Date: Aug 30, 2005
Location: SQUIDVILLE
Posts: 8,816
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I think it's different if you make something and it's copied as opposed to someone selling a pattern and it's purchased and the item is made from the pattern and sold. The copyright law linked above would apply to the former, not the latter.
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2014-01-14, 1:26am
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Hat or Cake?
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Join Date: Nov 03, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 610
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I see what you mean, Amy. Thanks.
Beth
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2014-01-14, 8:46am
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Wonder-wench
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Join Date: Aug 09, 2010
Location: land of milk & honey
Posts: 1,104
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um, yeah, I'm pretty sure if you want to protect a copyright, you don't create a detailed step by step of how to make the item, take lots of people's money for the instructions and then expect your copyright to stay protected. That's just nonsensical.
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Elizabeth
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2014-01-14, 10:27am
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Storm Queen
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Join Date: Aug 30, 2005
Location: SQUIDVILLE
Posts: 8,816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmorphousDesigns
um, yeah, I'm pretty sure if you want to protect a copyright, you don't create a detailed step by step of how to make the item, take lots of people's money for the instructions and then expect your copyright to stay protected. That's just nonsensical.
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It's super funny would you phrase it like that.
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2014-01-14, 11:13am
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Bead Maniac
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Join Date: Jul 17, 2005
Location: Beautiful Oregon Coast
Posts: 203
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Keeping us on our toes
Hahahahah
Ok gotta laugh I have been teaching lampwork for 12 years and the lines get so blurry , that I had an argument with one of my (friend) students over a bead made in the class, she did it so well. I was wearing it because I thought I made it ...Then when I pulled up the class photos there she was making it ....She gave me the bead ....
I find we all learn from each other and translate it in our own way , the only ones who copy exactly are production people who do not have an ounce of creativity in their bodies ....no names here come to mind except you know who in China ....
When I see my style catching on too much it makes me makes me grow , ugh....sometimes it is so easy to be complacent......
Beaders Rock !
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2014-01-14, 12:41pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 03, 2005
Posts: 1,186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDesigns
I think it's different if you make something and it's copied as opposed to someone selling a pattern and it's purchased and the item is made from the pattern and sold. The copyright law linked above would apply to the former, not the latter.
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yep! a completely different ball game when tutorials/patterns are involved.
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