Why do my 10mm Clear Rods Devitrify??

essiemessy · #1 2011-11-20, 4:11pm

Hello

Been having a go at implosions, and failing miserably. By the time I've even got a maria melted, the clear has devitrified. I'm supposedly using the good stuff (104), at least that's what I bought, and it's heartbreaking to see it all turn to %$#(.
I have to take ages to soften the glass, using a hothead, and am melting it far out in the flame. No sooting this time, but I can't stop the devit.
Rods are washed and lovely and clean.
I only get to torch once or twice a week, so wasting an hour each time with this is just not on if PPP yields results I can't even see!
Rant over.

Any ideas?
Thanks in advance

glassymom · #2 2011-11-20, 7:17pm

I have this happen sometimes too.......I was thinking I was burning my clear. Not sure tho, looking forward to an answer here

essiemessy · #3 2011-11-20, 7:27pm

Yep, me too, but rarely

not a bit of soot in this one. Go figure!

nklt0 · #4 2011-11-20, 9:48pm

Di, What clear are you using?

essiemessy · #5 2011-11-20, 9:52pm

Moretti Special. Just the fat ones are doing that, although I've had similar issues with the thinner ones, but I think silver glass might have something to do with that.
Having it happen like this, however, absolves my marver this time

nklt0 · #6 2011-11-20, 10:59pm

Did you pick off the cut end? The cut end or any scratch on the surface will develop into devit.

For your first few try, you can possibly get away with ignoring it especially when it is at the face of the maria. Remember that once it has condensed, all the face material will be moved to the centre and can be picked off after you have finished with implode the designs.

Anne Londez · #7 2011-11-21, 1:45am

When you say the glass has been washed, do you mean with water ? If so that may be part of the problem, especially if the surface of the glass has micro scratches. You create a layer of silica on the glass that can prevent proper melting and cause phase separation.

PerfectDeb · #8 2011-11-21, 3:00am

Are you sure it's devit and not boiling the glass?

Dragonharper · #9 2011-11-21, 3:42am

Can you post a picture? That would help us figure out what is going on. As far as washing goes I wash all my rods, esp. clear. Then before I use them I wipe them down with a rag and denatured alcohol. I have found that the trick to working 104 clear is patience and an oxidizing flame. Work at the back of the flame 1.) it's cooler so you wont boil, 2.) The fuel is completely combusted so it won't reduce the glass. Reduction is what causes the greyness you see, not soot. I can get plain old Effetre Clear to look wonderful if I take my time. You may not have quite enough heat either, if you are make in implosion with 10mm rod you finished product should be between 15-20 mm, that is probably close to the limit for a HH. When I started, a little over a year ago, I was also infatuated with implosions. While I still like them I've found things I like better, lots of clean sparkely clear is one of them.

Rose · #10 2011-11-21, 5:24am

You might want to try Patti Frantz's method. I'm attaching a link. Just scroll down to the post about Perfect Clear. I tried it and I can now use all my scummy glass that I could never get clean. The clear is amazingly clear now and free of scum. I don't have to worry about buying expensive clear ever again! I didn't want to buy a hot plate and pan so I use my dedicated crock pot. I heat the stuff up and put the glass in, let it soak awhile and then turn it around to get the other 1/2, cause it sticks out the top. Worked like a charm.

http://frantznewsletter.com/blog

Lisi · #11 2011-11-21, 5:24am

Micro scratches can cause micro bubbling and boiling and sometimes it's a bad batch with micro bubbles in the pull. I have never heard that any clear could devitrify.

essiemessy · #12 2011-11-21, 1:46pm

Ooh, thanks, everyone

I'll take some pics to post, and read the replies more thoroughly, so I can acknowledge properly.

essiemessy · #13 2011-11-21, 2:36pm

Here's what happened:

Rose, thanks for the link. Yep, I'd read that before, and was hoping I wouldn't need it, but if I'm looking to do more of this, I'm going to have to try it.

To those talking about cleaning them, I've washed them, rinsed them, then washed them again in white vinegar & hot water. Then they've been wiped dry with a clean cloth ( I do this with all new glass orders that arrive also), and there's definitely a difference in how they sparkle etc with that process.

I also snipped the end off the rod once I'd melted it.

To those talking about boiling the glass, yes. I seem to have a habit of doing that, anyway. This time, it just kept looking like setting fudge. I took ages with it, being very careful to keep the rod beyond the second blue cone. I'm sure I could have grown a Rip Van Winkle beard in this session

In the end, I just gave up before anything even imploded, after nearly an hour, because it just got bigger and bigger and more frosty. But for once, no soot Yay!

So, I'd be very interested to hear what it looks like in the pics

If it's boiling the glass, or not enough heat then I'll put them away until I can get more firepower.

Thanks again, all

PerfectDeb · #14 2011-11-21, 3:44pm

thats just weird

trust you to come up with something out of the box

it almost looks like its etched

essiemessy · #15 2011-11-21, 4:19pm

Ooooiiiii knOw!

Dragonharper · #16 2011-11-21, 4:41pm

That sure looks like devitrification to me. I've only seen once, with boro, but that's what it looked like. I was told that with Boro clear devit is caused by moving the glass when it is not hot enough. I would think that if it was moving by gravity it would be hot enough but maybe not.

nklt0 · #17 2011-11-21, 4:49pm

you good, Di! I've no idea how you managed to do that. It sure look like devit to me but I've never see my glass do that. How big is it?

On the positive side, I don't think cleanness is the issue here.

PKnowler · #18 2011-11-21, 9:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by essiemessy

Here's what happened:

Rose, thanks for the link. Yep, I'd read that before, and was hoping I wouldn't need it, but if I'm looking to do more of this, I'm going to have to try it.

To those talking about cleaning them, I've washed them, rinsed them, then washed them again in white vinegar & hot water. Then they've been wiped dry with a clean cloth ( I do this with all new glass orders that arrive also), and there's definitely a difference in how they sparkle etc with that process.

I also snipped the end off the rod once I'd melted it.

To those talking about boiling the glass, yes. I seem to have a habit of doing that, anyway. This time, it just kept looking like setting fudge. I took ages with it, being very careful to keep the rod beyond the second blue cone. I'm sure I could have grown a Rip Van Winkle beard in this session

In the end, I just gave up before anything even imploded, after nearly an hour, because it just got bigger and bigger and more frosty. But for once, no soot Yay!

So, I'd be very interested to hear what it looks like in the pics

If it's boiling the glass, or not enough heat then I'll put them away until I can get more firepower.

Thanks again, all

Essie,

It looks cool! Like it's etched without all the harsh chemicals. Go with it! LOL Seriously though, I know your frustration! The last implosion I did the rod did the same thing. But it was a translucent green color- not clear. Try a different rod or thickness. I'm sure you will figure it out. When you do- let us know.

~Paula

essiemessy · #19 2011-11-21, 10:58pm

Paula, Deb & Nk What can I say? I do my best

Um... given how long it took me do melt the bloody thing in the first place, it couldn't be mistaken boro, could it?

PerfectDeb · #20 2011-11-21, 11:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by essiemessy

Paula, Deb & Nk What can I say? I do my best

Um... given how long it took me do melt the bloody thing in the first place, it couldn't be mistaken boro, could it?

What torch are you using? I melt 10mm 104 pretty quickly on my minor

essiemessy · #21 2011-11-21, 11:18pm

Hothead.

PerfectDeb · #22 2011-11-22, 12:43am

Hmm I doubt it's boro then, it would just laugh at a hothead

Ravenesque · #23 2011-11-22, 12:53am

That is the weirdest thing!

It does look cool, if you wanted it to do that.

Have you made anything else with this glass? Like even a small spacer to see if it's working it like Dragonharper said, or if it's the glass itself.

ewdb · #24 2011-11-22, 12:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by essiemessy

Here's what happened:

Rose, thanks for the link. Yep, I'd read that before, and was hoping I wouldn't need it, but if I'm looking to do more of this, I'm going to have to try it.

To those talking about cleaning them, I've washed them, rinsed them, then washed them again in white vinegar & hot water. Then they've been wiped dry with a clean cloth ( I do this with all new glass orders that arrive also), and there's definitely a difference in how they sparkle etc with that process.

I also snipped the end off the rod once I'd melted it.

To those talking about boiling the glass, yes. I seem to have a habit of doing that, anyway. This time, it just kept looking like setting fudge. I took ages with it, being very careful to keep the rod beyond the second blue cone. I'm sure I could have grown a Rip Van Winkle beard in this session

In the end, I just gave up before anything even imploded, after nearly an hour, because it just got bigger and bigger and more frosty. But for once, no soot Yay!

So, I'd be very interested to hear what it looks like in the pics

If it's boiling the glass, or not enough heat then I'll put them away until I can get more firepower.

Thanks again, all

wow, that IS weird but totally cool!

my 1st reaction was clear doesn't devit but your photos prove differently, LOL.

only think i can think of as a possible cause is this: did you use EDP or Sedona (or a similar odd lot) in the core? those colours will sometime give the other glass on the bead a matte finish as they devit (kind of like a weird fuming). Powder Pink might be another culprit...

i really want to help you figure this out now so it can be used as a technique...

wendbill · #25 2011-11-22, 2:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewdb

wow, that IS weird but totally cool!

my 1st reaction was clear doesn't devit but your photos prove differently, LOL.

only think i can think of as a possible cause is this: did you use EDP or Sedona (or a similar odd lot) in the core? those colours will sometime give the other glass on the bead a matte finish as they devit (kind of like a weird fuming). Powder Pink might be another culprit...

i really want to help you figure this out now so it can be used as a technique...

That's a good point about something like EDP doing that - usually if you don't cover the core completely. The EDP reaction with clear does take on a pale colour cast of the EDP if you etch it afterwards though.

I was just impressed that Essiemessy is melting a 10mm rod on a hot head. I don't have the patience for that on my minor.

LarryC · #26 2011-11-22, 3:00pm

The glass looks overworked to me. Work faster and this will probably not be an issue. If the glass spends lots of time in the temp range where devit is an issue it will occur. You stated that you spent ages working the glass....Find a way to reduce the latency.

artsyuno · #27 2011-11-22, 3:11pm

You can clean glass pretty well with vinegar, but you'll need to give it a good long soak (several days). Hot pickle works much quicker.

essiemessy · #28 2011-11-22, 3:33pm

Thanks, all.
I'll try again with smaller beads, and will also try the other rod I got with the order. And try a bit closer to the torch. Trouble with that, though, is that it will surely soot up.

There is a bit of Tongue Pink in what was once a 'design', but it was the outside that was devitrifying. Was starting up the rod from the maria once it got warm.

I've had clear devitrify from smaller rods, but I suspected that it was because it was from the marver, which I'd forgotten to clean down after burnishing silver foil on it. It also happens when I use Goldstone, Blue Goldstone, and Reichenbach Antik sparkly.

I managed the mini-implosions with Goldstone frit and 5mm rods, but still the black stuff:

Wendy, that made me giggle

essiemessy · #29 2012-02-14, 11:48pm

Bugger. It's still happening. Tried with Lauscha this time.

Eileen · #30 2012-02-15, 12:19am

It makes me wonder if it isn't getting hot enough or something. Once you get it on the mandrel though I would think it would go just as hot as the smaller rods, so that doesn't really make sense I guess. Nevermind, I'll go back to lurking...

Just wondering if you happen to know someone that has a dual fuel torch that you could melt it with, or ask them to do it. Then compare results?