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| Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2010-01-26, 1:04pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 08, 2005
Posts: 2,907
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Marver question: brass or graphite??!!
Hi, I just got word that my new Scorpion torch is about ready to ship (YAY!!!) and I want to order a new torch-top marver for it. I found some and they come in brass or graphite. My question to all you peeps who marver a lot is: should I get brass for its longevity or graphite for its color development possibilities? I know when I work the multicolor glass from Reichenbach on my graphite I get beautiful colors. Anybody know if I would lose that working on brass? Also does anybody know if one holds the heat better or differently? Any thoughts on one or the other??? Any comments much appreciated!
Thanks to all!!
Mary T.
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GTT Scorpion, Griffin Glass footpedal, EX15 oxycon
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2010-01-26, 1:11pm
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He can do the origami
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Join Date: Nov 24, 2005
Location: Najin Oyate
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For general torch top marvering my preference is graphite. I do use brass for certain applications but most of my brass tools I am going to be coating with bees wax and would not have the time to do so on a constant basis for a torch top marver. Brass and graphite do hold heat and take heat from the glass at different rates. They each have characteristics that are useful for different applications.
Otter
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2010-01-26, 1:26pm
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Senior Member
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Thanks Otter!!! I'm leaning toward graphite and didn't think about bees wax! For those of you who use brass torchtop marvers (anybody?), is this an issue?? Any other comments? I love my graphite but am kind of rough on them. The only good thing is with the one I found, the graphite can be replaced!!
Thanks again!
Mary T.
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GTT Scorpion, Griffin Glass footpedal, EX15 oxycon
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2010-01-26, 1:26pm
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Happy Beadmaker!
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Join Date: Sep 08, 2005
Location: Clearwater, FL
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Hey Mary! Congrats on new torch, you'll have such fun!
As I understand it, brass tools are used to MOVE glass, while the glass slips and slides over the surface of graphite and SMOOTHES accordingly. I think it was the Stump class where we discussed that. I've used the torch-mounted graphite marver exclusively, but use brass tools when I'm shoving glass around (masterfully, haha).
Does that help? If not, perhaps a hug would, so considered yourself hugged girlfriend!
Lea
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2010-01-26, 1:44pm
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No Problem!
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Join Date: Oct 14, 2005
Location: Fernley. Nevada
Posts: 1,130
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The only time I use brass marvers/shapers is when I want to scoot the surface glass around. Graphite is slippery (why powdered graphite is used as a dry lubricant), and won't put up much friction on the glass. Brass has a tacky feel to it. That's why the brass stump shaper is such a cool tool, you can push and pull glass around just by dragging it across the glass with light pressure.
As far as color reactions, there's been mention that the reaction is more significant with cold brass on raku type colors like iris-orange than with graphite but I can't say for sure.
Shani was telling me how colors were strking differently with some DH glass as her bead press got warmer from repeated use. Having duplicates (presses) would allow you to alternate to the cold tool if you felt it was worth it...
Chilling the surface of these colors with tools brings the temp way down momentarily in just the surface glass to a colder temp than you would want the whole bead to air-cool to, due to cracking concerns.. This super surface chill allows for a good reset of the color for a nice colorful strike.
For the torch top and everyday marver I choose graphite.
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(Beau & Shani)
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2010-01-26, 1:45pm
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No Problem!
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Join Date: Oct 14, 2005
Location: Fernley. Nevada
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Lea was to the point while I rambled on...
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(Beau & Shani)
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2010-01-26, 1:52pm
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Happy Beadmaker!
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Join Date: Sep 08, 2005
Location: Clearwater, FL
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LOL & spewing coffee, Beau...you're too cute.
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2010-01-26, 2:10pm
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Senior Member
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Thanks all! You've given me exactly the detailed and concise info I was looking for. I'm going with the graphite!!!
And hugs back at ya, Lea, bestest of friends!!!
Mary T.
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GTT Scorpion, Griffin Glass footpedal, EX15 oxycon
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2010-01-26, 3:39pm
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Lampworkaholic!
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Join Date: Apr 22, 2008
Location: Cornelius, NC - because weather
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Graphite does not rob heat from a bead the way that brass does. Another vote for graphite (and I want a Scorpion so baaaad).
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"And all will turn to silver glass, a light on the water, grey ships pass into the west." Annie Lennox
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2010-01-27, 10:37am
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Location: The Villages, FL
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What is the bees wax on the brass for? I have a hand-held brass marver and as far as I know it's never seen any bees wax.
Greg
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Greg
A pessimist is an optimist with experience.
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2010-01-27, 12:59pm
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Will work for glass...
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Join Date: Dec 19, 2007
Location: Gainesville, FL
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What Lea said! And since you've already made your decision, just an added sidenote: the temperature of your tools may be affecting your colors as well. I use brass tools when I want to cool something off quickly, because a cold brass tool takes longer to get hot when I'm marvering a bead than graphite does. The "raku" colors like Reichenbach Magic and Raku respond well to rapid heating and cooling cycles (when you cool the glass quickly after heating it to a molten state, it helps the raku colors bloom). So I use my brass tools a lot when I'm using raku.
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Alison D. in Gainesville, FL
I can show you one hot piece of glass
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2010-01-27, 1:54pm
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Thanks again all, and Alison, I agree on the brass for raku colors. I have the wonderful brass rolling marver by Scott Bouwens that I use for raku to make the colors pop!! I place it on a frozen gel pad so it stays cold while I'm heating the glass.
Elizabeth, I ordered my Scorpion right after last year's Gathering. I'm so excited (& nervous!!).
Mary T.
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2010-01-27, 7:44pm
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No Problem!
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Join Date: Oct 14, 2005
Location: Fernley. Nevada
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Mary, the frozen gel pad is simple genius. I'd never think to bring one near the torch unless I was treating a burn.
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2010-01-28, 12:21pm
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Heh heh, Beau, I originally got the frozen gel pads for burns but didn't want to put my rolling marver in ice water so I got creative!!!
Mary T.
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2010-03-24, 10:53am
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BaZinga!
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2009
Location: Asheville, NC
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So, does the brass stick to the glass if it's able to move it? Are you supposed to use some type of bead release with brass?
I've never used brass and only have graphite.
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2010-03-24, 11:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare_Ale
So, does the brass stick to the glass if it's able to move it? Are you supposed to use some type of bead release with brass?
I've never used brass and only have graphite.
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Even polished smooth, brass has a little more 'tooth' to it than graphite, and as such, can 'push' the glass around better than graphite.
With all metal tools, you want the glass hot and the tool cold ... otherwise, the glass can stick to the metal tool.
One usually only uses bead release on mandrels.
Malcolm
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2010-03-24, 5:26pm
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BaZinga!
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2009
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 328
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Thanks!
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~Amber
Genius Prayer: God, grant me the courage to change the things I cannot accept; serenity to accept the things I've changed, and the wisdom to know I'm different. -S. Pastis
Nortel Mid-Range, tanked O2 and propane, GlassHive kiln
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2010-03-25, 11:37am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: Yarmouth, Maine...home of the Clamfest
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Burning Brass makes a BEAUTIFUL torch mounted marver in brass that you can order an "optional" graphite insert for at a *really* reasonable price (just a few bucks extra) so you can "mix/match" for whatever you're doing that day....I've got it on my cricket--it was mom & dad's christmas gift to me this year (last year's birthday gift was the cricket itself!)..I love it & it sits *above* the torch, vs. "on" the torch, so it's adjustable no matter how you "point" your torch as well--which is another really nice feature!
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new purple cricket @ home! minicc @ playing with fire in rockland! Sue & Nikki fighting over who gets to anneal the wonkies
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2010-03-25, 2:38pm
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Senior Member
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I ended up with the graphite marver from Burning Brass (thank you Malcolm!!!) for my Scorpion and absolutely love it!!!
Mary T.
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