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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2008-06-13, 4:11pm
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Default Hood size for my torch??

Hi everyone!

I am in the process of planning and re-configuring my new vent system.

The question:

How do you determine the hood size if I am using a Carlisle cc?

Can the same set up also be used when using a minor?

Not both torches at once, but if that was the case of 2 work stations, that means 2 seprate systems?

OH YEA........humidity also plays a factor!



I have been reading all of the threads and could not find anything on that subject.


Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 2008-06-13, 4:45pm
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Its not determined by "torch" type...

It starts by selecting a hood size and working from there....

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=94212


Dale
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  #3  
Old 2008-06-13, 5:38pm
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Originally Posted by Dale M. View Post
Its not determined by "torch" type...

It starts by selecting a hood size and working from there....

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=94212


Dale
Isn't how close the hood is to the torch just as important as how large the hood is?
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  #4  
Old 2008-06-13, 8:51pm
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True..... I over look that fact and tend to think people will put hood as close to torch as practical. Probably a mistake on my part.

Dale
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  #5  
Old 2008-06-14, 6:42am
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True..... I over look that fact and tend to think people will put hood as close to torch as practical. Probably a mistake on my part.

Dale
There seems to be evolving two completely different approaches to hood location. For want of any other terms, I call them the "Amercan" method and the "Italian" method. The "American" method is to install a large fixed position hood similar to those used for kitchens - usually 2 ft or more up from the work station. The "Italian" method is to install a small funnel head positioned only a foot away from the work station.

The "Italian" method could provide the same calibre of exhaust venting as the "American" while using considerable lower capacity fans. Also, having enclosed walls to create a booth would allow for lower capacity fans.

I would think that any figure being suggested to calculate fan capacity requirements would have to consider "air entrapment area" and distance from exhaust port as being equally important, if not perhaps more important, then hood area.

I wonder also if the size of the torch being used isn't also a major consideration in determining exhaust requirements. The larger the torch, the greater the exhaust needs.
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  #6  
Old 2008-06-14, 10:59am
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I am reading your thoughts on a American vs. Italian systems.

It seems like a simpler set up to have a funnel,than to build a hood yourself.

True or false?

I have an installer for the electrical and mounting, I'm doing the rest on my own.

That means getting the facts and formulas straight before I do anything!
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Old 2008-06-14, 12:19pm
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Actually I have always fancied the funnel system, but "several people" who have been adamant that it is not effective keeps swerving me away from the funnel system. Only problem is (in my mind) is coming up with a formula that will effectively insure proper scavenging of combustion byproducts....

I have to wondered if same 125cfm rule would apply to funnel. Only comprehensive "work" I am aware of was a article in "The Flow"(I think it was) sometime back by a gentleman out of Texas.... Only problem is there was such a hue and cry he was trying to sell everybody his parts or some such silliness, and article was to just a ploy to support his products he decided to walk away from supporting glass work.....

I have asked before for anybody that has funnel system to post the design specifications and never gotten any response.....

Dale
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  #8  
Old 2008-06-14, 2:17pm
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Originally Posted by Dale M. View Post
Actually I have always fancied the funnel system, but "several people" who have been adamant that it is not effective keeps swerving me away from the funnel system. Only problem is (in my mind) is coming up with a formula that will effectively insure proper scavenging of combustion byproducts....

I have to wondered if same 125cfm rule would apply to funnel. Only comprehensive "work" I am aware of was a article in "The Flow"(I think it was) sometime back by a gentleman out of Texas.... Only problem is there was such a hue and cry he was trying to sell everybody his parts or some such silliness, and article was to just a ploy to support his products he decided to walk away from supporting glass work.....

I have asked before for anybody that has funnel system to post the design specifications and never gotten any response.....

Dale
I think there are way too many variables for any formula to be more than a SWAG (Scientific Wild Assed Guess). Probably the only sure way to confirm a system works properly is with a smoke test.

I'm selling fans and working on designing possible ventilation packages for sale. In the past couple of weeks I've talked to several companies that manufacture fans and ventilation equipment. None had ever heard of the 125 rule. Where did it come from?
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  #9  
Old 2008-06-14, 3:55pm
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Well......

I did see on a few websites ( can't remember now) of people who had pics of Luicco's funnel and someone who taught in Japan with the same set up. Many funnels branched out to each station and positioned over the torches. Plus some here on LE who have a set up that way.

If I were to build my own hood, then perhaps someone has a tutorial on how to make one fairly easy?
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  #10  
Old 2008-06-14, 4:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szglassy View Post
Well......

I did see on a few websites ( can't remember now) of people who had pics of Luicco's funnel and someone who taught in Japan with the same set up. Many funnels branched out to each station and positioned over the torches. Plus some here on LE who have a set up that way.

If I were to build my own hood, then perhaps someone has a tutorial on how to make one fairly easy?
I saw 24" x 30" kitchen range hoods at Home Depot for $24.95.
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  #11  
Old 2008-06-14, 7:20pm
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Do you mount a kitchen hood on the wall or from the ceiling?
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  #12  
Old 2008-06-14, 7:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szglassy View Post
Do you mount a kitchen hood on the wall or from the ceiling?
Attach it to a suspended shelf. Just attach a couple of shelf brackets to the wall, put a 16" deep wood shelf on the brackets and screw the hood to the shelf. Range hoods are designed to attach to a 12" deep shelf, but if you instead use a 16" or 24" deep shelf, you can position the hood further forward. I'd suggest setting the shelf 24" up from your work surface. After installing the hood, install side walls from the shelf down to your table. You'll then have an enclosed booth.

The fan that comes with low cost range hoods is only about 90 cfm. Just remove it and connect ducting with a squirrel cage fan or an in-line duct fan. You can get them in a dozen different sizes. In-line fans are very quite and varible speed. Do NOT get a "booster" fan. These won't draw air but are designed only to boost air that has already been pushed into the duct.

Range hoods are designed to vent into a 4" x 10" duct, but you can easily get fittings to adapt that to whatever round size duct you want. The ultimate size will depend on the size of fan you use.
http://www.aeroflo.com/axc.htm
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  #13  
Old 2008-06-14, 7:59pm
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Thanks Dennis!

But I have a carlisle cc and at times I work hot and the flame really shoots out.
I'm not sure about working in an enclosed area.it seems a bit confining.

Could you still hang one overhead?
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  #14  
Old 2008-06-14, 8:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Brady View Post
I think there are way too many variables for any formula to be more than a SWAG (Scientific Wild Assed Guess). Probably the only sure way to confirm a system works properly is with a smoke test.

I'm selling fans and working on designing possible ventilation packages for sale. In the past couple of weeks I've talked to several companies that manufacture fans and ventilation equipment. None had ever heard of the 125 rule. Where did it come from?
IT was adopted on ISGB forum first by Vince, than Mike copycatted it. It's the specification for industrial class A fume hoods.....

Here is a couple of sources of the 125 number..

http://www.pao.gov.ab.ca/?file=healt...de-of-practice
http://www.tamhsc.edu/departments/fi...fumehoods.html

IF you want bigger numbers....

http://www.isgb.org/info/safety/uploads/swsafety.pdf

Here is just some interesting data..

http://www.lni.wa.gov/Safety/Topics/...ault.asp#Hoods
http://www.hartandcooley.com/flex/ai...ion_chart.pdf/
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ex...ds-d_1036.html
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ve...tems-t_37.html
http://www.esmagazine.com/CDA/Articl...00f932a8c0____

And something to play with...

http://www.freecalc.com/ductfram.htm


Dale
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  #15  
Old 2008-06-14, 9:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szglassy View Post
Thanks Dennis!

But I have a carlisle cc and at times I work hot and the flame really shoots out.
I'm not sure about working in an enclosed area.it seems a bit confining.

Could you still hang one overhead?
Of course you can hang it, but hanging it wouldn't be any different then installing it on an overhead shelf.
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