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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

View Poll Results: Do you have propane tank(s) in your house?
Yes, but only a maximum of 2 one-pound tanks 76 10.60%
Yes, I keep my BBQ tank right next to me in the studio. 212 29.57%
No, it always stays outside. I run the lines through a door/window. 247 34.45%
No, it always stays outside. I have a plumbed line through the wall. 182 25.38%
Voters: 717. You may not vote on this poll

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  #421  
Old 2011-05-18, 3:32am
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Guess I would have to be classified as anal about safety, I'm not risking a major loss just to work/play with glass. I've had torch, tanks, Regulates, flashbacks (2 sets, one at each end), kiln & 60+ pounds of glass for over a year now and will not set it up until I have a safe place to do so. 50 year old failed septic that needed a new tank, leach field... You might say I flushed $7000+ down the toilet...
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  #422  
Old 2011-05-31, 6:32pm
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After about six months with a hot head and 1# canisters, I decided to get a bulk tank and hose to go through the window. Things worked great until the weather started getting colder and I could no longer sustain a flame due to the pressure drop in the cold tank. I was sorely tempted to bring the tank in to warm it up, but I resisted thinking that I could easily refrain from working at home during the busy winter months and pick things up in the spring, which I did. Things worked great up until the tank started to get too hot and the pressure was too high for the hot head to handle. I have to admit that I was very disappointed that it looked like my great new tank was going to be useless for about 8 months out of the year. There must be other people in the same situation, so my question is this; is there a regulator on the market that will cap things off to the hot head's preferred pressure and conversely is there a safe way to warm up the tank on cold winter evenings?
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  #423  
Old 2011-05-31, 6:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkroomdweller6 View Post
After about six months with a hot head and 1# canisters, I decided to get a bulk tank and hose to go through the window. Things worked great until the weather started getting colder and I could no longer sustain a flame due to the pressure drop in the cold tank. I was sorely tempted to bring the tank in to warm it up, but I resisted thinking that I could easily refrain from working at home during the busy winter months and pick things up in the spring, which I did. Things worked great up until the tank started to get too hot and the pressure was too high for the hot head to handle. I have to admit that I was very disappointed that it looked like my great new tank was going to be useless for about 8 months out of the year. There must be other people in the same situation, so my question is this; is there a regulator on the market that will cap things off to the hot head's preferred pressure and conversely is there a safe way to warm up the tank on cold winter evenings?
I live in Maine and, for a long time, had a hook up with a tank outdoors with a hot head. Winter never dropped my pressure. You may want to post some pictures of your set up and see if we can help figure out what's going on. Just my thoughts...

Sue
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  #424  
Old 2011-05-31, 7:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkroomdweller6 View Post
After about six months with a hot head and 1# canisters, I decided to get a bulk tank and hose to go through the window. Things worked great until the weather started getting colder and I could no longer sustain a flame due to the pressure drop in the cold tank. I was sorely tempted to bring the tank in to warm it up, but I resisted thinking that I could easily refrain from working at home during the busy winter months and pick things up in the spring, which I did. Things worked great up until the tank started to get too hot and the pressure was too high for the hot head to handle. I have to admit that I was very disappointed that it looked like my great new tank was going to be useless for about 8 months out of the year. There must be other people in the same situation, so my question is this; is there a regulator on the market that will cap things off to the hot head's preferred pressure and conversely is there a safe way to warm up the tank on cold winter evenings?
There is a knob on torch to turn it down when pressure becomes to much....

Something a lot of people seem to over look is valve is to control flame it is just not off/on...

Of you want a regulator it will have to operate in the 60-70 psi range (minimally) to keep HH alive... And yes they exist...

http://www.protanksupply.com/adjusta...il.asp?ID=2003

Personally to spend this much money for regulator (plus additional fittings cost), its probably time to think of a fuel/oxygen torch...

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2011-05-31 at 7:16pm.
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  #425  
Old 2011-05-31, 9:17pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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As Dale suggested how about upgrading to an Oxy/Pro setup. Something like a GTT Lynx or Cricket is worlds ahead of the hot head.
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  #426  
Old 2011-06-01, 6:09am
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I kind of assumed that would be the case; to just bite the bullet and upgrade. That's my long term plan, I was just hoping that I'd be able to do it slowly instead of all at once.

Dale, I use the valve on the torch all the time, but since it's been hot outside, I'm getting big orange flares and smaller sets of them that look like the jets on a surface mix. Then last night, the last straw: I had a giant flame on about an eighth of a turn open which started puffing it's self out, I have to assume because of excessive pressure.
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  #427  
Old 2011-06-10, 4:32am
SwayingTree SwayingTree is offline
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I have a hothead and run it off a 5 lb bulk tank with a 4 foot adapter hose. Ideally those hoses are designed to run a propane appliance, such as a small stove that takes the small bottles (1 lb mapp/propane tanks) with the larger bulk tanks. Obviously a stove is running 4 foot away from the tank, so why is having a torch such a big risk? I dont plan on dropping and globs of molten glass on the hose any time soon. I checked several times for leaks and all is well. Im sure Im going to get h#*$ for this, but if someone knows something that Im missing, please let me know.
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  #428  
Old 2011-06-10, 7:17am
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Did you bother to read this thread?
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  #429  
Old 2011-06-11, 9:22am
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How big risk it is I truly can't say. Consider that those hoses are made for outdoor grills, camping stuff, weed burners and turkey fryers. I don't think it was ever envisioned or intended that they be used inside. The HH is a special case because it runs at tank pressure without a regulator; the hose thus becomes an extension of the tank. If there's a failure, its a failure at full tank pressure. Tank=metal & very reliable valve/seals. Hose=rubber/plastic & crimped fittings. A 5# is no grill tank, but its still a lot of gas if you have a leak. I tend to go by personal experience and I've had welding hoses crack and rot, so I tend to be very wary of hoses. An equal or more important question is where you store the tank when not actually in use.
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  #430  
Old 2011-06-11, 9:39pm
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So, I've read a lot of this thread but not all of it. I hope I am not going to ask a super annoying question that has been answered already. Here goes: Is it possible to run a minor burner with oxy generator and 16.4 oz propane canisters? I'm desperate to flamework but after reading the safety issues here, I will cease having my 20# tank indoors. Unfortunately, my living situation precludes me keeping a tank outside with a hose up to my window.
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  #431  
Old 2011-06-12, 7:40am
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So, I've read a lot of this thread but not all of it. I hope I am not going to ask a super annoying question that has been answered already. Here goes: Is it possible to run a minor burner with oxy generator and 16.4 oz propane canisters? I'm desperate to flamework but after reading the safety issues here, I will cease having my 20# tank indoors. Unfortunately, my living situation precludes me keeping a tank outside with a hose up to my window.

Yes..... Here is message thread with similar question and solutions....

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=197661

Dale
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  #432  
Old 2011-06-12, 8:04am
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Thank you, thank you, thank you Dale! I can't tell you how upset I was to think that I'd have to dismantle my home studio. Now to locate all of the parts...
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  #433  
Old 2011-06-22, 5:47pm
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Here is a question I hope someone can help me with....I keep my bar-b-que tank of propane outside when I'm not using it. I live in Central California and right now the temperature outside is a scalding 107 degrees. The tank is in the shade but it's close to the house because I don't have anywhere else to put it that is not in direct sun. The garage is also pretty hot but I don't want to store it there because of the hot water tank (gas). Is the tank safe? Is there some mechanism that helps with the expansion of gas when it's hot?
Help!
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  #434  
Old 2011-06-22, 5:48pm
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Regarding the above post, when I ask if the tank is safe, I mean the propane tank.
Thanks!
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  #435  
Old 2011-06-22, 7:16pm
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Tank is safe!...As long as its outside..... Tanks are designed with pressure relief valve that the will blow off excessive pressure if internal tank pressure reached more than 260 PSI... Yes it will dump massive amounts of propane in "blow off" situation... However to cause this tank pressures, temperature will have to reach a lot more then the 107° f. you are experiencing.... At approximately 110° f. tank pressure would be 204 PSI....

http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html

IF you are concerned you can put tank in shade, cover with a cloth and keep damp (evaporation will cool tank)...

Dale
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  #436  
Old 2011-06-22, 9:14pm
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Mine is outside and hosed through a hole in my shed. Yes, a hole. A crooked hole too.
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  #437  
Old 2011-06-23, 3:34pm
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I hope any Australians reading this thread are aware that it is safe and legal to use a 9 kilo lpg bottle ( barbeque size) in the house in Australia, check with your gas company if you like, but it is fine here, anything bigger has to be outside though.
B
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  #438  
Old 2011-06-23, 5:52pm
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I hope any Australians reading this thread are aware that it is safe and legal to use a 9 kilo lpg bottle ( barbeque size) in the house in Australia, check with your gas company if you like, but it is fine here, anything bigger has to be outside though.
B
It may be "legal" but may NOT be "safe"....

Dale
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  #439  
Old 2011-06-24, 11:19am
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What Dale said.......

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  #440  
Old 2011-06-24, 10:45pm
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Well the only times I have ever heard of 9 kilo tanks catching fire is when they are connected to BBQs, outside, I have never heard of any one catching one on fire while torching ( not in Australia anyway ) perhaps we have a better class of bottle over here.
cheers, bernard
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  #441  
Old 2011-06-24, 11:43pm
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Originally Posted by castaway View Post
Well the only times I have ever heard of 9 kilo tanks catching fire is when they are connected to BBQs, outside, I have never heard of any one catching one on fire while torching ( not in Australia anyway ) perhaps we have a better class of bottle over here.
cheers, bernard
I think you have missed the point. Maybe you should read the whole thread.
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  #442  
Old 2011-06-25, 11:42am
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Quote:
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Well the only times I have ever heard of 9 kilo tanks catching fire is when they are connected to BBQs, outside, I have never heard of any one catching one on fire while torching ( not in Australia anyway ) perhaps we have a better class of bottle over here.
cheers, bernard
Don't think so, its about 99% about stupid things uninformed people do and about 1% mechanical failure...

Dale
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  #443  
Old 2011-06-25, 11:40pm
stacyz stacyz is offline
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Default help me with safty

I am new at this and would like to be safe but am confused as to what exactly is safe. I have been having the propane tank next to me (like the one you use for a BBQ). I have a regulator and a hose to the tank. I also have a oxygen consentrator. I have just been using 2 fans to pull the air away from me for ventilation. I work in my garage. I open the door when I am working and turn the fans on. When I am not using the gas I have been keeping it in the garage (connected to my house) but I always disconnect the hose. My husband doesn't like the idea that I even do this so he is not helpful in getting this all set up so I need to be able to do it myself. What I am thinking is:
1. Store the tank outside of the house (does it have to be enclosed or can I just set it outside of the garage on the drive under the overhang of the house) and connect the hose to it when I am working
2.Continue with the fans and the door open


Is this enough to keep me an my family safe? I do not understand why it is more safe to have the tank outside the wall of the garage than inside. If it blows up there it will still be right next to the house.

Can someone please help clarify this stuff!
Thanks
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  #444  
Old 2011-06-26, 1:55am
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The overall issue with propane inside a building is that should the tank vent or should it leak, the fuel will accumulate and can be ignited by a pilot light on a water heater or any open flame. If outside, the venting has a tendency to dissipate. Propane is heaver than air so will settle while NG will rise.

Many houses use propane as a fuel with the tank always located outside. Sometimes next to the building or underground. The fuel is piped into the house using the codes required by your community or city. Generally with black pipe through the wall at no more than 10 PSI.

NG folks are even more rigid in that their in house pressures are in the range of 1/2 PSI. Our gas folks will not allow for 2 PSI unless it is a commercial building or an out building. A residence is kept to very strict standards as 2 PSI can deliver substantially more fuel (should a leak occur) in relation to .5 PSI.

Lampworkers do all sorts of things. Some installations are within code while others are not. Keep in mind that codes are written for safety and protection.
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  #445  
Old 2011-07-05, 11:00am
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Since my tank is in a drafty shed, I was more concerned with a piece of hot glass popping and ending up on the tank or something. Stranger things have happened!
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  #446  
Old 2011-07-06, 10:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stacyz View Post
I am new at this and would like to be safe but am confused as to what exactly is safe. I have been having the propane tank next to me (like the one you use for a BBQ). I have a regulator and a hose to the tank. I also have a oxygen consentrator. I have just been using 2 fans to pull the air away from me for ventilation. I work in my garage. I open the door when I am working and turn the fans on. When I am not using the gas I have been keeping it in the garage (connected to my house) but I always disconnect the hose. My husband doesn't like the idea that I even do this so he is not helpful in getting this all set up so I need to be able to do it myself. What I am thinking is:
1. Store the tank outside of the house (does it have to be enclosed or can I just set it outside of the garage on the drive under the overhang of the house) and connect the hose to it when I am working
2.Continue with the fans and the door open


Is this enough to keep me an my family safe? I do not understand why it is more safe to have the tank outside the wall of the garage than inside. If it blows up there it will still be right next to the house.

Can someone please help clarify this stuff!
Thanks
Keep your tank outside of the building all of the time. Connect when you are working, disconnect when you aren't. My tank (hard plumbed with black iron pipe) lives in a plastic deck box outside behind the studio. That keeps the sun and rain off the tank and regulator.

Robert
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  #447  
Old 2011-07-14, 3:53pm
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So I am just starting out and wanted to be able to set up in my basement. I planned to take the small propane tank out each time I was done. I am getting a Nortel Minor Lampworking Torch and wondered.... will it work with both propane and with natural gas, or does it have to be set up for one or the other???
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  #448  
Old 2011-07-14, 4:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilmer View Post
So I am just starting out and wanted to be able to set up in my basement. I planned to take the small propane tank out each time I was done. I am getting a Nortel Minor Lampworking Torch and wondered.... will it work with both propane and with natural gas, or does it have to be set up for one or the other???
Minor will work with propane or natural gas.... IF you are in basement and have access to natural gas its would be simpler to make a few plumbing changes to make gas available to torch ... Safer because natural gas is lighter than air and floats up (and out) where propane is a heavier than air gas and will settle to floor areas....

Also basements have other safety issues if you have appliances ( gas dryer, water heater, furnace) located in basement.

Some further reading about studios in basements...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...php?f=12&t=430

Dale
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  #449  
Old 2011-07-14, 5:41pm
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One drawback with NG is that in most areas a pressure of 1/2 PSI is standard. Some have success with getting that moved to 2 PSI. In our area 2 PSI is not available in a residence. But can be utilized in a commercial shop or outbuilding.

Now using a Scorpion on .5 PSI NG in place of propane. More convenient and no more running out of fuel in the middle of a creation. The downside, installation costs and less fuel. The upside, safety and convenience.
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  #450  
Old 2011-07-14, 7:30pm
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Default Help with torch set up :OS

Please help!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilmer View Post
So I am just starting out and wanted to be able to set up in my basement. I planned to take the small propane tank out each time I was done. I am getting a Nortel Minor Lampworking Torch and wondered.... will it work with both propane and with natural gas, or does it have to be set up for one or the other???


Leanne
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