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  #1  
Old 2008-05-25, 2:42pm
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Default Rose Cane

Is there a tutorial for making a rose cane? I mean, very basic, from the beginning. I want to make some of those circle flowers (I think of them as Mary Englebreit flowers). I've found reference to making a rose cane, but have no idea how to start.

I hope it's not so simple you're all laughing at me!

Thanks in advance!
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Old 2008-05-25, 3:20pm
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Usually this is just a light opaque covered in a dark transparent, but there are no rules!! I like a pink opaque encased with rubino oro or med amethyst. I also like light blue opaque encased with medium transparent blue.

Take an opaque rod, warm about 1-2 inches, but not so hot that it starts to gather. Then hold that rod just below/behind the flame and pass the transparent rod through the flame and coil it around the opaque rod (they are basically at right angles to one another). It's sort of like you are using the transparent rod to make spacer beads onto the opaque rod which is like the mandrel (I hope this isn't too confusing).

After the rod is encased, pull the encased part into thick stringer, that is your rose cane. Let me know if I can clear up any questions. Jeri
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  #3  
Old 2008-05-26, 5:02pm
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Funny, Yesterday I tried making rose cane this way for the first time. Before I used to make a small gather and "stripe" or "paint" the transparent rod down the opaque rod. You make stripes going about an inch down the rod until the whole rod is covered.

Like Jeri said, it was SO MUCH easier and faster for me to wrap the transparent rod around the opaque rod.

Oh, one thing that helped me, is to concentrate the flame on the elbow of the transparent rod you are wrapping with. Rock it back and forth too, so the whole rod gets hot and not just the bottom where the flame hits it. You'll see the "elbow" when if you hold it at right angles.

To pull into stringer, you can attach punty. Wrapping one inch will make a lot of cane so it can help to punty it! I use a Moretti Clear rod (that I never liked or used for anything else).

Heat the end of that rod up and gently smash it straight down onto a marver to form a flat hammer type end, called a Maria. Attach that to the end of your encased rod. Try to attach it right in the center.

Heat the encased rod, turning it in the flame. Try not to let your hands drift apart. Turn both rods together.

Once it's a football shape and glowing all the way through take it out of the flame and let cool a couple seconds. Be ready to pull a really long cane!

If it gets longer than my arms are wide I'm ready to hold the cold end with my feet so I can pull further! (Saw that done once on U-Tube and it made sense.)

The hard part is making the rose. To use the cane, it looks better if you don't have a flat cut end on the stringer that goes on the bead first so heat it up and pull into thin point.

It will look like a pile of speghetti piled onto the bead until you get the hang of it. I'll see if PTF has any tips on how to apply it.

PS: Another color combo is a white rod wrapped in Ruby Ore.
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  #4  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:42am
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funny, I had been wanting to ask about this the last few days and just hadn't gotten around to it. LOL
Thank you ladies!!
Sue
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  #5  
Old 2008-05-27, 3:37pm
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Anyone have any good combos for yellow roses? I've tried a few and have not been happy with them?
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Old 2008-05-27, 3:50pm
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I like the Lauscha yellow over white, sorry I don't know the true name, but I have bought it from Glassdaddy. Jeri
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  #7  
Old 2008-05-27, 4:06pm
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Thanks, everyone. I made some canes today. Basically, a cane is a thicker stringer, right? Or any diameter you want? My first attempt at actual floral beads was a bust though. Better beading tomorrow, I hope!
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  #8  
Old 2008-06-02, 9:08am
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Originally Posted by killerbeedz1 View Post
Anyone have any good combos for yellow roses? I've tried a few and have not been happy with them?
Do you have the Vetrofond Odd lot Bannana Cream? I used that and encased with a very pale trans. yellow green and it came out a pretty yellow. I think it would be good for roses. I'm guessing any yellow encased with a pale green would work. Let us know what you try!

I made one yesterday with a base of Bannana, Eecased one "front" section with trans grass green, with stripes of Ruby Ore over/on 2 sections of that.

Then added Trans. Purple over part of the ruby ore, Opaque Grass Green on the other side, encased with Trans. Purple.

Pulled and Yum! The only thing that would have been better was to pull it as as a cane, thicker, even 3mm would have been nice, instead of a stringer since you loose a bit of the color changes when pulled too thin.

FWIW!
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Old 2008-06-02, 3:46pm
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Eeek! I should have mentioned that I didn't wrap my colors around the rod. I painted them on after building the rod up into a cylinder. A far cry from the rose encased stringer question you started with. But I've been investigating, and trying so many different types of cased stuff, stingers, cane, and murrini, (even a "fish"!) I'm confusing myself along with everyone else!?!
Plus my terminology of cane, verses, murini, verses, millies', isn't the best to put it lightly.
Big Grin,
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Old 2008-06-02, 3:56pm
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Even a white opaque rod with pink rubino surrounding it puts out a very vibrant pink rose. For yellow, you could try using Moretti-yellow apricot and encase it with a transparent yellow striker. I get the most beautiful roses. Although it's not quite yellow only but more of a marigold mix of yellow and oranges.
Lavender and Pink gold is nice too
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  #11  
Old 2008-06-03, 6:28am
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My terminology of the terms isn't the best either. Can someone define them? Cane? Stringer? Murrini?

I'm thinking cane is thicker than stringer. My stringers are always so thin!!! And murrini is an objectpicture built with glass then pulled into a cane.

Am I close?!
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  #12  
Old 2008-06-04, 12:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenie View Post
Even a white opaque rod with pink rubino surrounding it puts out a very vibrant pink rose. For yellow, you could try using Moretti-yellow apricot and encase it with a transparent yellow striker. I get the most beautiful roses. Although it's not quite yellow only but more of a marigold mix of yellow and oranges.
Lavender and Pink gold is nice too
What number is yellow apricot? If I have it I don't know it. . But I do have a small piece of yellow striker so would like to try it!

When I suggested a pale trans green, for encasing, I was thinking more on the yellow side. Like Apple Green #M073
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Old 2008-06-04, 12:38pm
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Originally Posted by susiekline View Post
My terminology of the terms isn't the best either. Can someone define them? Cane? Stringer? Murrini?

I'm thinking cane is thicker than stringer. My stringers are always so thin!!! And murrini is an objectpicture built with glass then pulled into a cane.

Am I close?!
Cane is any encased rod. Pulled into a stringer, it's still called Cane according to one book I have.

I think your right on Murrini, but then what is Milliforie <sp> ? Aside from the term "1000 flowers" I've heard of, I've seen stars, moons, etc. Are those Millies or Murrini?


Pulling thick -2mm, 3mm cane, stringer (whatever!) IS hard. Mine always come out a lot thinner than I want except for the very ends. I made a fish murrini and he is about the size of a pin head. LOL!

I read somewhere to concentrate the heat of the ends of your gather, because the middle will take care of itself. I'm thinking I need to do that. Of course then it can burn through the "punties" and falls off.

For 2-3mm stringers, try to wait as long as you can before you pull it. And wait some more! Is there a skin forming before you pull? You can even pull it out a bit, let it droop a little in the center, and wait some more.

Try pulling slow and fast so you get different size canes.
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  #14  
Old 2008-06-05, 4:35am
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Rose cane (or stringer) is still one of my favorites. I like to make it with opal yellow and gold ruby (rubino oro). It give a peachy pink look to the rose.
The ones in this picture are made with opal white in the middle. I just use the rosette technique in the middle of layers of petals.

Susie, I hope you try this and show us your beads. Have fun!
J.
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  #15  
Old 2008-06-05, 9:41am
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those are WONDERFUL!!!!! So pretty!!!
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Old 2008-06-06, 10:27pm
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those are WONDERFUL!!!!! So pretty!!!
DITTO!!!
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Old 2008-06-12, 1:05pm
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I have found the trick to thicker stringer is to pull slowly. I was pulling way too fast when I first tried and would end up with hair thin useless pieces. I head the whole thing till it is nearly dripping, spin spin spin out of the flame until almost loosing all heat color, (this is something that comes with experience, knowing when to pull, I just know...) then pull slowly. I also found that for me, it is much easier to pull with pliers than with a punty.
One last thing, I was trying to pull way too much at once, now I do little short 10 or 12 inch pieces and that is plenty long enough for use, so I heat about the size of a grape to pull that!
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Old 2008-06-13, 10:34am
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Where's the tut on how to use the rose cane?? Huh? Huh? Now that we can make it we must learn how to use it....HINT HINT to all who know how!! lol
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Old 2008-06-14, 6:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killerbeedz1 View Post
Anyone have any good combos for yellow roses? I've tried a few and have not been happy with them?
I use white for the core, and a light topaz for the "wrap" - looks really pretty.
I also do it with white core and med trans blue for blue roses.
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Old 2008-06-18, 1:27pm
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Where's the tut on how to use the rose cane?? Huh? Huh? Now that we can make it we must learn how to use it....HINT HINT to all who know how!! lol
I wish I DID know how and could tell you! My experience is all of one attempt and they did not look like roses by any stretch of the imagination.

I looked in Passing the Flame (book), but all Corina recommends is the usual stringer control methods.

Stringer out of the flame, not in,
Find that sweet spot on the torch where you can paint the stringer on
Move the bead, not the stringer so your not hunting for that perfect sweet spot over and over.

One thing is that it's easier to make a scroll/circle in one direction rather than the other when working to the side of the flame. Which direction that is, I don't know. Big help I am huh?

But it probably depends on which side of the flame you work, right or left.
Make them all go in one direction once you know which is best.

Make a point out of the stringer first, instead of using a cut off end when "you" start. It turns into a line rather than a glob where you touch down on the bead.

Someone else who really knows how to do this???

I am afraid it is going to come down to the dreaded P word.
Ah well, there could be worse ways to spend my time.
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Old 2008-06-18, 2:50pm
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So would you make like a spiral then plunge it or leave it or what? I've never seen a rose being made and really haven't seen too many roses made on beads as it is!! HEEELLPP!! lol
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Old 2008-06-18, 3:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggys View Post
Cane is any encased rod. Pulled into a stringer, it's still called Cane according to one book I have.

I think your right on Murrini, but then what is Milliforie <sp> ? Aside from the term "1000 flowers" I've heard of, I've seen stars, moons, etc. Are those Millies or Murrini?
Cane doesn't have to be encased. If you buy Reichenbach or Kugler or one of the other brands of glass that were formerly intended for glassblowers, you'll find that the 7-8mm sticks of glass that we call "rods," they call "cane." To glassblowers, "rods" are about an inch thick. When does a cane/rod become a stringer? Matter of opinion, I guess. If you buy boro, you can buy "rods" that are 3mm. I've got some intense black "stringer" that's 3mm. (Which I was fairly ticked about, as it happens -- I end up having to pull stringer from it to get the thinness I want.)

A complex cane that's pulled down to stringer thickness might still be called a cane by some.

I think millefiore is a type of glasswork done by using a lot of murrine. Take 1000 vaguely-floral-looking murrini, put them all next to each other, and you have "1000 flowers," that is, millefiore. (The 1000 is figuratively speaking -- I think the technical requirement is "a whole bunch.")

(By the way, I make no claim to have straightened out the correct spellings of the singular and plural forms of "murrine." I thought I knew, once, and was very rudely told I was an idiot, so I'm not even pretending to know, now. No speak the Italian, here.)

Complex murrini are made by making canes of the details, putting them together (with extra glass if necessary), pulling that cane down, putting it together with other canes, and so on, sometimes over and over and over again, with each step being pulled down to a workable size. For example, if you want to make a face, you can make an eye cane, a nose cane, and a mouth cane, and put those together with extra glass to form the contours of the face.
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  #23  
Old 2008-06-20, 1:29pm
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I'm posting some pictures of my canes. Some look vaguely like roses...I have a long way to go!!









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Old 2008-06-23, 5:44am
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So would you make like a spiral then plunge it or leave it or what? I've never seen a rose being made and really haven't seen too many roses made on beads as it is!! HEEELLPP!! lol
Your too funny! The roses I've seen, like in Passing the Flame and elsewhere are simply scrolled on encased stringer. No plunging, etc. In PTF Corina says she likes to put a dot of clear over the scrolled on spiral. I tried that and it ruined the scroll work.

J. Savina, in the picture above, combines the scroll/spiral/rose with a flower. Looks like the flower is twisted with a stringer plunged into the center, to make the flower petals sort of wrap around. Then the scroll/spiral is on top, in the middle.

Still, most roses are just the spiral, and thats it. I'm barely awake so hope this makes sense or that I'm not being redundent now that we have a picture!
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Old 2008-06-23, 5:46am
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[quote=susiekline;1919726]I'm posting some pictures of my canes. Some look vaguely like roses...I have a long way to go!!

That's it!!! Especially number #1. (The others are a little tough to see.) I don't think you have a long ways to go at all!

Ann Rickets makes what are called Chintz flowers, and I am almost positive they are lots and lots of tiny roses in all different colors on one bead. You can barely see the base bead there are so many. They are to gorgeous. Yum!

Maybe she marvers them flat? Maybe she will come here and tell us? (praying!) I've coveted her technique ever since I first saw them.
Just a thought for something to try.
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Old 2008-06-23, 5:51am
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Emily summed up the terminology for us, (thank you!) but here is a great link to ALL glass terminology. It's interesting, when you have time to read it that is.

Glossery of Hot Bits and other details: http://users.ticnet.com/mikefirth/glos-bit.htm#CAN
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Old 2008-06-23, 5:56am
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Thanks Angela. My stringer control still seems a little wobbly. You'll notice my roses look terribly shaky!!

I was make a frog the other day and I think I found the sweet spot!!! I mean, the stringer was flowing nicely, and I was getting only the tiniest glow anywhere. I'm still having the hardest time keeping everything out of the flame when I am doing this! grrrr
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Old 2008-07-11, 8:57am
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Does anyone have a good color combo for red roses? Maybe two, the lighter type and the really intense kind- I've tried to make a cane and it looked really pretty, but the roses melted into blobs and they look like cherries.

-Maria
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  #29  
Old 2008-07-11, 9:06pm
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Susie, Thanks to you I have been practicing roses! No frogs though!!! That's way beyond my skill level.
One attempt was on a large flat focal: I made 8 roses only to have 5 of them pop off completely while working on rose # 9! I was getting so excited that I hadn't messed up yet, my hands were starting to shake, right before they popped off.

So now I heat each rose, then marver it to secure it in place. The marver chills it so helps to keep it from loosing shape. It's too easy otherwise to heat it so much that it melts too far into the base bead and turns into a blob.

Sometimes I shoot the flame at the very center of the holes on the bead where the mandrel is, after making the roses, then hold the mandrel vertical and let gravity pull the glass towards the mandrel ends opening up the roses. Does that make any sense? It's like stretching the base glass so that the spiral/rose opens up.

I also take a stringer, (I like a deep dark opaque pink), and push in the edges of the spiral here and there to make the "petals" more defined. I could be doing this totally all wrong but so far it's what works best for me.

Maria, for the bright red roses, I still like white encased with Ruby Ore. I think it is intense. Also EDP encased with Ruby Ore is not as bright as the white!
I tried using Alabastro medium Pink encased with clear. It's a very pale pink.
Try Opal Yellow encased with Ruby Gold (Rubino or Ruby Ore, it's all the same thing) like J. Savina's! Oh! Ruby Ore over Powder Pink is a beautiful soft dusty rose!

Jess, Have you found anything that works for you?!? I so want to get this. I am going to try enamel stringers too and see what that does.
Phew, Sorry so long winded!
FWIW!
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Old 2008-07-12, 4:01pm
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jesscause jesscause is offline
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I tried one with a periwinkle encased with a purple transparent (very pretty) but my rose was, well, interesting so I have just kept checking back for more posts and finally they are here! lol I just may have to try this tonight. I need a good bead making session because I just spent the last three days alone with my 2 yr old and a friends 2 yr old! I need a break! lol I will let you know how it goes after my bead cools! Thank yo ufor all your advise and we'll see if it pays off!
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