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2008-06-20, 10:16pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 18, 2005
Location: Keyport, Washington
Posts: 150
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RE; Jim Moore Retro Tool
I just got the tool to line bead holes.
Does anyone have any good advice or tips?
I also got all 3 sizes of the tips.
It is really cool,
Lori
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2008-06-20, 10:33pm
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Wild at Heart!
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 4,274
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Did you get the Jim Moore Bead press or the Retro Tool bead liner? They are two different things
There are a few threads out there with a LOT of tips.. I"ll see if I can dig them up.
Kristi
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2008-06-21, 9:02am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 18, 2005
Location: Keyport, Washington
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Bead liner
Kristi,
Thanks, I got the Bead Liner tool.
So far, I only broke the first bead I attempted. I know what I did wrong, so that is fine.
I am using copper tubing, and I keep splittin the rim as I flatten.
I am sure I will figure it out with PPP, but any tips would sure be appreciated.
Lori
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2008-06-21, 9:20am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 14, 2005
Location: Alabama
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I just got it too so I am very interested in how to use it. I ordered a tool to cut the tubing but I don't know what to do about the rough edge it will leave on the tubing after I cut it. What do others do about that regardless of which tool they are lining with? Also, I thought Jim's thing would come with instructions but I didn't really get enough to get me started. I am going to look at the movie on his website again. Thanks for any tips.
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2008-06-21, 3:24pm
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Maker of Famous Burn Gel
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Join Date: Jan 25, 2006
Location: On the Bay in Virginia
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Someone teaches it in her classes? Andrea maybe? I am having a brain fart, but maybe she will jump in the give a little advice.
pat
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2008-06-21, 9:53pm
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,002
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With copper tubing, it usually has a thicker wall, it's better to anneal the metal first. To anneal, just hold the cut tubing with a tweezer (one with thicker tips) and heat it in your torch until it just glows red, quench it in water.
I file the tubing - using a coarser file then a finer one to clean it up. It usually takes no more than 30 seconds.
I got the Jim Moore press last week and cored about 20 beads and only had one casualty - one with a bump on the hole. I love the plastic flaring die for the final press - much better than using the metal one all the way.
Hope this helps.
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2008-06-21, 9:58pm
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Broken
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Victoria BC/Stettler Alberta
Posts: 13,418
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Andrea teaches a class using Jim Moore's bead riviting press not the Retro tool and it's a fantastic class!
I use copper tubing alot, with Jim's press, which I use I do not anneal the copper tubing. Copper is actually softer than sterling tubing, so I've never needed to anneal it. I press softly and flip the bead, press softly and flip the bead repeating often. The key is to take your time flaring out your tubing, not to try and do it all at once.
After I cut my tubing there is a tiny little burr, I just gently file it off. I use a mini chop saw to cut my tubing.
Jim's video is fantastic very informative and shows pretty much step for step how to rivit using his machine.
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2008-06-21, 10:06pm
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
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Nicole - where did you get your copper tubing? I would like to find some with thinner walls!
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Hayley
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2008-06-21, 10:09pm
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Broken
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Victoria BC/Stettler Alberta
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I get mine at Home Depot and it has a fairly thick wall, I've heard the hobby shops with train supplies sometimes carry thinner walled tubing. I'd like to find some thinner walled stuff too and some 1/8 inch copper tubing. If I find any soon I'll PM you.
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2008-06-22, 5:34am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Apr 25, 2008
Location: Salt Lake, Utah
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Nicole would you please pm me if you find thinner walled copper tubing? I have been looking for it as well.
Jodie
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2008-06-22, 8:53am
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
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Thank you, Nicole!
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Hayley
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2008-06-22, 11:09am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 18, 2005
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What are you all using to cut the tubing?
Thanks for all the suggestions. I am going to work on it some more today.
I'll let you know how it works.
Lori 2
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2008-06-22, 11:12am
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I'm a lilac!
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Join Date: Jun 09, 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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I've seen copper tubing at True Value, too, and it's quite inexpensive!
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2008-06-22, 5:55pm
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Senior Member
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Location: Texas
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A friend told me about this place for those that can't find tubing locally. Just search for tubing and they have copper, brass, and aluminum in all sizes. I practiced with aluminum and it was easier than sterling. http://www.micromark.com/
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2008-06-22, 6:01pm
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Senior Member
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Location: Scappoose, OR
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I use the Retro tool and I can't get the nice flared ends on mine. Anybody got any tips? I'm guessing I need to use a dapping tool after I line the bead to get the ends to dome a bit more.
BTW, I got copper at my local hardware store and it's very cheap (like $1.30 a foot) and they have a variety of sizes. Even though some of it has thicker walls, it's all pretty soft and didn't need any annealing. Cuts easily with a little tube cutter (got it at the same store) and works great.
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2008-06-22, 6:37pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
Location: Duh, Squidville
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You're not supposed to have to do anything extra on the retro tool - is it possible your tubing is too short to flare properly?
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DOG is my co-pilot
Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2008-06-22, 7:58pm
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Maker of Famous Burn Gel
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Join Date: Jan 25, 2006
Location: On the Bay in Virginia
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Somebody a while back gave me this website. They have a ton of all kinds and sizes of tubing. http://www.happyhobby.com/hobb_html/k&s.htm
pat
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2008-06-23, 6:24am
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Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid
You're not supposed to have to do anything extra on the retro tool - is it possible your tubing is too short to flare properly?
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I tried having only 1mm extra on each side of the bead and up to 3mm on each side. I could not turn the wheel and even my husband could not flare it all the way. I had to finish all of them with a chasing hammer. I am using the Retro Liner.
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2008-06-23, 9:59am
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My experience has been the same as Jan's. If I really crank on the wheel to flare the tube, the bead breaks. I ordered a dapping block yesterday and I think I'll use it to get the domed look that I'm after.
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2008-06-23, 4:20pm
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Senior Member
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I have the Retro and have no problem with flaring. Could be that you don't have the slide in the notch and it's buring the base, keeping it from going completely into the bead lining. That can keep you from flaring the tubing properly.
I've been buying my copper tubing at hobby Lobby.. It's a nice thin walled tubing and they have tubig to line 1/8 bead holes as well as the 3/32 and 1/16th.
As long as you have your sliding part that the wheel is on, in the slot, you shouldn't have problems.
My Retro came with a video on DVD and 3 sets of flaring tips.
I started lining my beads with the retro about 2 or 3 months ago and I've yet to crack or chip a bead or split the tubing.
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2008-06-23, 5:23pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 18, 2005
Location: Keyport, Washington
Posts: 150
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Well, poop
What do you mean by the slide in the notch?
I don't know what that is.
The instructions that came with the tool are not good at all.
Lori 2
P.S. Whoever invented the word 'intuitive' never met me. I need detailed directions for everything.
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2008-06-23, 8:16pm
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Member
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Join Date: Oct 30, 2005
Posts: 65
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copper tubing
I just learned to rivit the 'old fashioned way' with copper from the hardware store. I followed the rivet tutorial by Andrew and it was easy-peasy (once I got the hang of it) I only ruined 2 beads before I had success~
Julie Suchy
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2008-06-23, 9:01pm
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Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slcuniques
I have the Retro and have no problem with flaring. Could be that you don't have the slide in the notch and it's buring the base, keeping it from going completely into the bead lining. That can keep you from flaring the tubing properly.
I've been buying my copper tubing at hobby Lobby.. It's a nice thin walled tubing and they have tubig to line 1/8 bead holes as well as the 3/32 and 1/16th.
As long as you have your sliding part that the wheel is on, in the slot, you shouldn't have problems.
My Retro came with a video on DVD and 3 sets of flaring tips.
I started lining my beads with the retro about 2 or 3 months ago and I've yet to crack or chip a bead or split the tubing.
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The slide is in the notch and I can not completely flare anything I have tried. I still need to try copper so maybe that will work better. I think the dies that are made with this don't allow for any variance in size and have to fit inside the tubing exactly or it won't flare properly. I have better luck just starting it on the Retro Bead Liner and then using hand tools to finish it. I get much better results that way. I have not cracked or chipped a bead yet even when hammering like Andrew showed in his tutorial.
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2008-06-23, 9:11pm
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Senior Member
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I've been working with copper, silver and stainless steal. I don't understand why you're having trouble.. unless maybe your not using the right size tubing for the flares. The flares do have to go all the way into the tubing, for sure.
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2008-06-24, 5:24pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 05, 2008
Location: Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicker
Andrea teaches a class using Jim Moore's bead riviting press not the Retro tool and it's a fantastic class!
I use copper tubing alot, with Jim's press, which I use I do not anneal the copper tubing. Copper is actually softer than sterling tubing, so I've never needed to anneal it. I press softly and flip the bead, press softly and flip the bead repeating often. The key is to take your time flaring out your tubing, not to try and do it all at once.
After I cut my tubing there is a tiny little burr, I just gently file it off. I use a mini chop saw to cut my tubing.
Jim's video is fantastic very informative and shows pretty much step for step how to rivit using his machine.
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Hi guys
A few little bits and pieces that may help you guys out.
Take note of Andrea above much wisdom in those short lines.
Quote:
I use copper tubing alot, with Jim's press, which I use I do not anneal the copper tubing. Copper is actually softer than sterling tubing, so I've never needed to anneal it.
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When i first started doing inserts i thought you had to anneal in the end i found it caused me more trouble than not but people should be there only judges.
Quote:
I press softly and flip the bead, press softly and flip the bead repeating often. The key is to take your time flaring out your tubing, not to try and do it all at once.
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Above maybe the most important bit you will see written anywere on the art of inserts. Sounds strange but you will save your self time by going slow and nine out of ten times you will achieve the desired ending.
Once you have got it all sorted out and get the desired ending 9 out of ten times or more Then you can look at ways of speeding it up. Although i do it for the sheer love of doing it so im not looking for speed anyway.
Quote:
Kristi,
Thanks, I got the Bead Liner tool.
So far, I only broke the first bead I attempted. I know what I did wrong, so that is fine.
I am using copper tubing, and I keep splittin the rim as I flatten.
I am sure I will figure it out with PPP, but any tips would sure be appreciated.
Lori
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The only reasons ive found for rims splitting is
Defect tube the seem hasnt been properly soldered ( very rare )
When cleaning out the burr after cutting the desired length you have made part of the lip thinner than the other creating a weak spot.
When cutting desired length of tube the finished cut is not at 90 degrees to the tube. Which can cause multiply problems in the flare pulling to one side as the initial contact is made with the press. Causing a weak spot which results in a collapse of the tube wall on further pressing or a tear in the wall that will split.
Not cleaning out the burrs before pressing which will often cause the tube walls to collapse as you now have more material on the lip than further down the tube and weak spots in the lip.
Hope this helps a bit
Regards
Andrew.
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2008-06-27, 9:12am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 18, 2005
Location: Keyport, Washington
Posts: 150
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Slide / Notch ????????????
Quote:
Originally Posted by beadescape
The slide is in the notch and I can not completely flare anything I have tried. I still need to try copper so maybe that will work better. I think the dies that are made with this don't allow for any variance in size and have to fit inside the tubing exactly or it won't flare properly. I have better luck just starting it on the Retro Bead Liner and then using hand tools to finish it. I get much better results that way. I have not cracked or chipped a bead yet even when hammering like Andrew showed in his tutorial.
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Sorry, but I am still wondering about the terms "Slide and Notch".
Where and what are they?
Lori 2
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2008-06-30, 6:58pm
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Innovative Tools
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Join Date: Aug 01, 2006
Location: South of KC, MO
Posts: 87
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RetroBeadliner
The side dimpled nests are for locking the moveable blk
in place.Begin by first unscrewing the large handwheel
until the threaded part is flush with inside face of moveable blk.
Place bead (with pre-cut tubing)onto permanent side and
slide moveable blk(with proper dies installed)up to and letting
the dies go inside of the tubing.Second,make sure you are over
center with the dimpled nest(inside face of moveable blk.will be in
between dimples) and then lock moveable block in place.Third,
start turning the large handwheel making sure that the bead
is in the middle of the tubing and still turns freely around tubing.
Continue until bead no longer turns freely.Unscrew large handwheel
and loosen small locking screw.Slide moveable back and out of the way.
Hope this helps
Jerry/RetroGlassTools
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2008-06-30, 11:04pm
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tweetysweetie
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Join Date: Jun 30, 2005
Location: Alaska, I was here first!
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Jan & Angela, I'm with you on my Retro, the wheel only turns so far and locks up...my husband can't even move it, sometimes the tubing hasn't started to flare yet!...then when undoing the set screw to slide the whole thing back? it's jammed, the thing is off kilter and will not move....I'm ready to throw the damn thing in the ocean. My son looked at it and says the machining is off on it somewhat..grrrr, as you can't slide it all the way to the left without it jamming.
Out of 20 beads I had success on one! and dang near broke my wrist trying to turn the wheel and then the rivet does'nt fold over all the way on it...the tubing I'm using is from Monsterslayer and I think maybe its' too hard/thick (the5mm one)...I'm not giving up until I get in the new tube from the bulk buy and see if that doesn't work better....then I'll know if it is the tubing or machine (and yes, I've followed what Jerry recommends..no luck)
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2008-07-01, 8:50am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 18, 2005
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O.K. I guess I was confused
What I have is the JIM MOORE tool.
I was interchanging the two names.
Now as I re-read the thread for the 3rd time, I see the confusion.
I have been so spacey lately, no excuse, just me..., (oh the joys of my 50's, it is such an adventure in humility)
Anyhow I think I need better tubing. I will hit the hardware store today.
I also might mention I am going to try using my cut-off blade in my dremel for cutting. I don't seem to be doing so well with my tube cutter.
Lori 2
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2008-07-01, 10:51am
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Senior Member
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Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiredDesires
Jan & Angela, I'm with you on my Retro, the wheel only turns so far and locks up...my husband can't even move it, sometimes the tubing hasn't started to flare yet!...then when undoing the set screw to slide the whole thing back? it's jammed, the thing is off kilter and will not move....I'm ready to throw the damn thing in the ocean. My son looked at it and says the machining is off on it somewhat..grrrr, as you can't slide it all the way to the left without it jamming.
Out of 20 beads I had success on one! and dang near broke my wrist trying to turn the wheel and then the rivet does'nt fold over all the way on it...the tubing I'm using is from Monsterslayer and I think maybe its' too hard/thick (the5mm one)...I'm not giving up until I get in the new tube from the bulk buy and see if that doesn't work better....then I'll know if it is the tubing or machine (and yes, I've followed what Jerry recommends..no luck)
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I got my tubing from Monsterslayer also. Maybe the walls are thicker than some of the others. The liner I am using did not lock up, it just wouldn't flare all the way. I even started in one notch and then as it flared a little, was able to slide it to the next notch. That didn't work either. Let me know if the other tubing works better. Good luck!
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