Newbie Question - Fibre blanket vs vermiculite

Care13 · #1 2010-09-02, 3:07pm

Ok, Newbie here. I tried a search and couldn't find anything.

First I know using a kiln is best but for a beginner that is not always in the cards. I will be batch annealing once I have a good number of beads and I can take them in to the glass shop and get them annealed. I have my first 100 beads in for annealing today!

But in the meantime, I use a fibre blanket, but i am finding i can only put about 8 mandrels in at a time, I have heard of vermiculite in a crock pot. What is this about? And for all those experienced out there what is the difference and pro and cons about each? I am open to both sides and points of view. Until I can get a kiln(not in the near future) I have to use one of these two methods.

Thanks in advance!

Carolyn
Newbie(of 1 month) in Victoria BC!

Dale M. · #2 2010-09-02, 4:17pm

I use vermiculite in a plain "coffee can"...

There has never been any proof offered up that heating vermiculite in a crock pot is any more effective than not heating it.... So far only opinion.... Only thing there is proof of it will use some electricity to heat crackpot....

By all means use vermiculite... After cooling bead till glow goes off it.... Simply point and stab bead into vermiculite (in can) as you sort of lift can and drop it to allow vermiculite a bit of "weightlessness" (fluff) and let cool to room temperature...

Dale

TBC Beads · #3 2010-09-02, 4:48pm

If you're looking into an alternative to the fiber blanket, you may want to look into annealing bubbles. They don't actually anneal your bead, you still have to batch anneal, but the folks I know who use the bubbles prefer them to vermiculite. Artco has them along with some information here: http://www.artcoinc.com/annealing_bubbles.php

beadsoncypress · #4 2010-09-02, 4:56pm

I second (or third) the annealing beads....then batch anneal when you can!

Elegance_1 · #5 2010-09-03, 5:29pm

I have used vermiculite in a crock pot when I am going to do lots of beads. What I do is turn the crockpot on high about an hour before I start torching so it will be hot. I use a very thick mandrel to move the vermiculite out of the way when I put the beads deep in the crockpot.

When I'm done, I let it stay on until the morning and then I turn it to the low setting. About noon, my DH turns the crockpot off and when I get home from work at 6 pm they are warm enough to handle.

Welcome to the forum! I will be looking for your beads in the gallery.

Pia Kaven · #6 2010-09-04, 7:50am

I started with vermiculite, and the advances are that you can put it in a wide container, and have lots of room to "anneal". With the fiber blanket you cant keep lifting it, or your beads will be exposed to cool air.
I do not have experience with the annealing bubbles, but I can tell you, I only have cracked one bead on vermiculite, so do your price checking, and stay tuned, and someone with some experience on annealing bubbles will probably tell you why it is preferred. And when you are ready to buy a real annealer, take your time and search the garage sale, annealers come for sale every so often.

Oh, and to add, I did not have a crock pot either...

alphamare · #7 2010-09-05, 5:25am

I started with vermiculite but I am now using annealing bubbles. They are light and round in shape so the beads glide ride in. I purchased a used mini crockpot on ebay for around $5.00.

Care13 · #8 2010-09-05, 2:56pm

Thanks everyone. I am going to try the annealing bubbles, heat or not I am not sure, but the fibre blanket is drving me nuts so I have to try something else.

patezd · #9 2010-09-05, 7:01pm

I know folks say that the crockpot makes no difference, however, in my experience, especially working in a cold climate in the winter, it does. I do really well with the vermiculite in a crock pot. However, one night I didn't get it plugged in right and didn't notice that it wasn't hot while I was working. EVERY bead I put in (all flat, tab focals) cracked into multiple pieces. It was a cold night and my vermiculite was the same since the crock pot was NOT on. That's just my 2 cents worth, others will have different experiences. Even if I switch to annealing bubbles, I will still use the crock pot.

Mitosis Glass · #10 2010-09-05, 8:34pm

I batch anneal the odd time as well, when I'm only going to be on the torch for an hour or two and it's not worth it to turn on the kiln.

I use vermiculite in a heated crock pot and have not lost any to breakage. I have also used fibre blanket but I seem to put the beads in too hot and they get fuzz stuck on them.

You just have to keep a couple of things in mind:

- Don't make any large beads this way. The bigger they are, the more likely they are to crack. I've heard people say one inch is the limit for size.

- Don't batch anneal dichro beads -- they usually don't survive.

- Using silvered glass inside the bead, or silver itself, increases the chance of breakage as well. Save those for the days when you have your own kiln.

- If you use presses make sure you evenly heat the bead before putting it in the vermiculite, as the thinner edges and holes are a bit touchy and more prone to breakage.

wendbill · #11 2010-09-08, 2:40am

When I was batch annealing I just used vermiculite. You just need to replace it every so often. I just had it in a flower pot. I never bothered with the crock pot either.

I agree with the comments about avoiding dichro.

Encased beads generally tend to be a little more touchy as well.

Care13 · #12 2010-09-09, 9:50pm

So much great advice here! Thanks everyone!

Carolyn

tiptrinket · #13 2010-09-10, 6:22pm

Okay, I just received the annealing bubbles after getting dull beads from the fiber blanket (I guess, from the fuzz) and getting distortion from the vermiculite, so does anybody have experience, advise, or instructions for using the bubbles? My first three beads had the bubbles stuck all over them and pitted the beads!
Thanks
tiptrinket

Elizabug2u · #14 2010-09-10, 7:35pm

Glad to find this as I was wondering about bubbles versus vermiculite also. Thanks everyone.

ArtcoInc · #15 2010-09-10, 7:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiptrinket

Okay, I just received the annealing bubbles after getting dull beads from the fiber blanket (I guess, from the fuzz) and getting distortion from the vermiculite, so does anybody have experience, advise, or instructions for using the bubbles? My first three beads had the bubbles stuck all over them and pitted the beads!
Thanks
tiptrinket

Your beads were too hot when you put them in the bubbles. There should not be any glow left in the bead when you put it away.

This is true regardless of using the bubbles, a kiln, vermiculite, or the fiber blanket.

Malcolm

wendbill · #16 2010-09-10, 9:47pm

You can always tap your beads on the side of your torch or on your paddle to make sure that the bead is "set" and not sticky first before you drop into your bubbles or vermiculite

lenora · #17 2010-09-10, 10:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Care13

Thanks everyone. I am going to try the annealing bubbles, heat or not I am not sure, but the fibre blanket is drving me nuts so I have to try something else.

I would heat them. I had problems with cracking when I tried to use annealing bubbles without heating them.

Pia Kaven · #18 2010-09-11, 3:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtcoInc

Your beads were too hot when you put them in the bubbles. There should not be any glow left in the bead when you put it away.

This is true regardless of using the bubbles, a kiln, vermiculite, or the fiber blanket.

Malcolm

Second this! It might look like they are not glowing anymore, but if you put them under the table into the dark, then you will see better. There should be no movement left to the glass. Better luck next time!
Pia