problems with blacks

patienthand · #1 2010-09-30, 12:20pm

I dont know what I am doing wrong. I have never had issues with black until the last year. I thought it was efetre so I got some vetrofond, same thing... I have tried different glass in the exact same flame and no problems.

Its turning metalic colors, scumming, makes sparkles in the flame like it eants to boil, but I am not working that hot.

what the heck is wrong? I have tried more oxy, working cooler, etc.

anyone else having issues? got any suggestions?

Candice

mewkittie · #2 2010-09-30, 1:08pm

I think it's the batch. I have always used Effetre black and the last batch I bought turns silver and bubbles. I've never had that happen, though Effetre black does do the pitting thing if it's marvered too much. The good thing is if it's worked in the flame the bubbles and silver go away and it looks fine. I bought some Vetrofond black recently because I heard it stays blacker and I can't use it. It pits and stays silver. Yuck.

Firebrand Beads · #3 2010-09-30, 1:35pm

are these the new metallic blacks? oxy makes them silver?
for the pitting, try heating your graphite paddle in the flame before marvering. That is a Jim Smircich technique for preventing the fizz that happens after you marver the black.

AKDesigns · #4 2010-09-30, 1:52pm

This happened to me years ago so I switched to CiM Hades as soon as it came out.

Nitadee · #5 2010-09-30, 2:00pm

I too use CIM Hades, LOVE it! Now the unique they had a while ago would silver up, and sometimes get tan streaks in it, but not so any more.
I also love the fact that it doesn't bleed like intense black does. Which is good if that's what your looking for but not so great for stringer work.
Just my 0.2 worth

Nita

loribeads · #6 2010-09-30, 2:10pm

I use Vetrofond black for pupil dots and have switched to CIM Hades and Tuxedo for everthing else. I have enough pupil dot glass to last pretty much forever.

shawnette · #7 2010-09-30, 2:42pm

Well, the problem is not the batch. She had Effetre 1st and I suggested Vetrofond. She's having the same problem with Vetrofond. Different manufacturer so definitely not a batch issue.

(another reason I use Uroboros...)

Roo Blaty · #8 2010-09-30, 3:33pm

I'm just glad someone else is having this issue...b/c I had it with one rod. Bubbles, siver, and shocky! Thought I had mixed it up with something else!

Otter's Flame · #9 2010-09-30, 4:09pm

Candice, just FYI if you do want to get rid of your black, Kimberly Affleck loves the blacks that turn silver. I noticed several years ago across the board most of the coe 104 black glass started developing this issue to one degree or another. It is a chemistry issue with a common ingredient in the blacks but I never followed up on it. For awhile it varied greatly by batch within the same maker. Of course.... boro has some wonderful black ...... and we also have cookies

Otter

Otter

jaybee766 · #10 2010-09-30, 4:12pm

OMG - I completely mis-understood the title of this thread!! Thank GOD I was wrong. LOL

OK never mind...

mewkittie · #11 2010-09-30, 4:30pm

Thanks for the tip to heat up the marver. What a great idea. I'll have to give that a try. It's just this last batch of Effetre that I've been having issues with. I bought it this year. It turns silver and bubbles when I initially melt it but after I put it on the mandrel and start working with it, it's fine.

I never worked with the Vetrofond black until I took Melanie Moertel's class (last summer ??). We used it in her class and I really liked it so I ordered some. It wasn't the same as the black we used in her class. This black silvered and bubbled like crazy.

I was deadset on using the same brand black since I have "issues" marking my glass. So, I don't know much about the Vetrofond black. I've always used Effetre black and occasionally use intense black. This is the first batch of Effetre black that is silvering so much.

Ravenesque · #12 2010-09-30, 4:33pm

^ me too Jeanne

Anyways, when I use Hades it bleeds?

I like that about it though, I use it instead of intense black now.
Love it though, and tuxedo. I won't ever buy Italian black glass again, or white for that matter.

RSimmons · #13 2010-09-30, 5:13pm

Everybody is trying to come up with a real 'black' instead of a dark shade of another color and keep messing about with the recipes. Oxygen brings up the manganese in most of these glass formulations, hence the metallic surfaces, often with pitting.

Robert

patienthand · #14 2010-09-30, 5:24pm

well.. it just sucks.. give me the black thats really a dark purple, and dont mess with it... Now I have 8 lbs of glass I cant freaking use... sheesh

Candice

Nitadee · #15 2010-09-30, 7:06pm

You know my addy Candice

Nita

Elizabeth Beads · #16 2010-09-30, 7:09pm

CiM Tuxedo is a lovely, reliable, stable non-intense black and the price is right.

Mitosis Glass · #17 2010-09-30, 9:14pm

Reichenbach black 104 also does the same thing, so don't go nuts ordering a truckload of it if you don't like that effect.

rosiescreations · #18 2010-10-01, 1:02am

CiM Tuxedo
It's my new favorite!

Torch&Marver · #19 2010-10-01, 3:43am

I agree on the CIM. Both Tuxedo and Hades. They're my new best friends at the torch.

Jody Lee · #20 2010-10-01, 3:54am

I think if you were unsatisfied with the glass, you should contact where you bought it from and ask to return it, for at least credit.

Effetre had a bad batch a few years' back, Vetrofond had a bad batch this spring, so it's not that way all the time.

CIM blacks are wonderful! Hades will turn a dark green if you pull it too thin, but it's in general a stiffer glass, and if you are pulling thicker-than-hair stringer, it is ok for most stringer work. Plus, if you use silver leaf/foil/glass with it, if you reduce it you get the most pretty blues with Hades!

It sucks when batches go wrong. Too bad the factories let it out.

DesertDreamer · #21 2010-10-01, 10:10am

If you have one, try using a brass shaper instead of graphite with Effetre black. That got rid of many of my problems. I prefer Hades or Tuxedo, they're a lot less fussy.

If you need an absolutely non-bleeding stringer, use a dark transparent gray: melt a good-sized gather, roll it in Thompson black enamel, melt in the enamel, and repeat. Heat gently and pull your stringer. I learned this from Kate Fowle in my first class (before intense black or any of the other "new" blacks) and it works perfectly.

patienthand · #22 2010-10-01, 11:19am

ok... I had better luck today. I followed the.. oxygen brings up the manganese tip, and made my flame richer in gas and worked further back and I had less problems. Genrally when stuff gets icky its too much gas not too much oxy.

Candice