Another propane/house explosion

[MikeAurelius]

http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S31876.shtml?cat=1

[swanseafarm]

That's so sad.

Is it common for the propane tank to stay intact like that?

[MikeAurelius]

The leak was probably in the house. If the leak had been at the tank, the tank would not be sitting there

It's impossible at this point to know what happened, but the article indicates that there was a leak inside the house, and given that the kitchen was being remodeled, I would be surprised if the fire investigators find that one of the propane lines to an appliance was knocked loose or cut or somehow damaged, which lead to the buildup of propane in the house.

Since this is practically in my backyard (roughly 50 miles away), I'll be able to keep an eye on the story as it develops.

[MikeAurelius]

Update to the story: http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S32114.shtml?cat=1

A body has been recovered, but no identification has been made as of yet, although it is presumed to be the missing man.

The investigators are fairly certain it was a propane explosion now and are working to try to pin down the source of the leak. It isn't going to be easy due to the amount of severe damage to the structure.

During the morning news broadcast they showed a brief clip of a house propane explosion that was staged by one of the local fire departments for training purposes. I'm trying to find a link to that video, and once I get it, I'll post it here.

Please: if you have a bbq tank in your house or your attached garage, please get it outside. Life is far too precious and an explosion and fire is a horrible way to die.

[CharArvelle]

My husband works for the local gas utility and he's the guy that comes out to check for gas leaks or shut off your gas when there is a fire raging. He comes home with plenty of horor stories about what he finds in houses during normal meter exchanges and service calls. Plenty of times homeowners trying to do things on the cheap use the wrong hoses/pipes/ connections in their homes such as flexable metal duct meant for dryers as furnace exhaust pipes.

Currently he is being instructed to shut off and take all brass flex connectors that he finds in the homes connected to appliances like stoves. This after a faulty brand of brass hose was found to be at fault in a home explosion. We forget that we bring an untamed "animal" into our homes everyday. We get lazy and believe that the natural gas/propane that we use everyday just happens. We forget to check connections often, men think that their wives and gals are "crazy" when they smell something funny (turns out that women CAN smell gas leaks better and at smaller amounts then men) and often just "blow off" this possible leak to the system. How many of us have a soap solution next to our tank connections to check for leaks everytime we make a new connection or put our gas stove back after cleaning under it?

I know that Mike is on a mission to remove a BBQ tanks from buildings, but this sounds like a large tank/system gas leak. But this doesn't stop the message that any kind of gas can pose a danger when used. Around here an asst. fire chief was killed in a home explosion that they never figured out...real easy to become lazy.

My mission? check your connections and hoses for leaks.

[MikeAurelius]

I know that Mike is on a mission to remove a BBQ tanks from buildings

Damn straight.

[skookum]

Originally Posted by CharArvelle

My mission? check your connections and hoses for leaks.

This is also damn straight. Thank you Char for bringing this up. Most often it's not the tank at fault, it's the connection. Don't forget that houses can also be leveled from natural gas appliances and hot water heaters if the connection is faulty or if safety flow valves are plugged. Fingers are always pointed towards the tank, but there's other boogey sites that are just as (if not more) dangerous.

Soap and water and look for bubbles regardless if the tank is inside or out. Also regardless of the fuel is being used (natural gas/propane/MAPP).

Speaking of being lazy: the previous owner of our old house had disconnected the electric smoke detectors because he needed the the power for the garage. His job in life: fire chief.

[CO_Phantom]

That reminds me of my boss's house...

She and her husband went on vacation. They got the news that their house had blown up while they were gone. Their dog was under their Suburban in the garage when it blew. Blew the dog away from the house. Dog was okay (oddly enough, I think it's name was Blue....a blue heeler), but had flame red lips for some time, and was deaf. The Suburban was just a shell. Tires completely burned off. Basement walls were blown out into the dirt surrounding them. People in town could hear it--it woke them up thinking someone in their house had fallen out of bed! And they were about 10 miles out, maybe more.

They figured it was a propane leak that did it.

They found pieces of his belt buckle collection many yards away from the house. it was amazing.

-Amy

[Allie_T]

Originally Posted by swanseafarm

That's so sad.

Is it common for the propane tank to stay intact like that?

It may have been a leak somewhere in the house. The house was a little older and they were remodeling. I am kind of thanking our lucky stars now that the house we had built last year fell through as it had a huge propane tank submerged next to the house.

[Allie_T]

Originally Posted by CO_Phantom

That reminds me of my boss's house...

She and her husband went on vacation. They got the news that their house had blown up while they were gone. Their dog was under their Suburban in the garage when it blew. Blew the dog away from the house. Dog was okay (oddly enough, I think it's name was Blue....a blue heeler), but had flame red lips for some time, and was deaf. The Suburban was just a shell. Tires completely burned off. Basement walls were blown out into the dirt surrounding them. People in town could hear it--it woke them up thinking someone in their house had fallen out of bed! And they were about 10 miles out, maybe more.

They figured it was a propane leak that did it.

They found pieces of his belt buckle collection many yards away from the house. it was amazing.

-Amy

The thing that strikes me about this story is that the couple went away on vacation and left their dog locked in a garage!

[smutboy420]

men think that their wives and gals are "crazy" when they smell something funny (turns out that women CAN smell gas leaks better and at smaller amounts then men) and often just "blow off" this possible leak to the system.

I have read some where that that is true and women can smell the gas additive at lower thresholds then a mans nose can.


Last year for a few months a friends house had a tiny propane leak in the line going to there furnace. A couple of times I caught a slight whiff and said hey I smell propane. Every timne I walk past the closet with the hot water heater and furnace. But I would only get a tiny hint of it then could not smell it while tring to sniff out the source.

None of the males in the house could smell it at all. The females in the house all smelled some thing But all swore it smelt like a dead aminal or some thing.

After a few months of smeling what I KNEW was propane and not a dead animal I made the call my self to a mutual friend of ours that is in the furnace instalation and repair biz and told him about it. He stopped up one night and had his girlfriend with him and He could not smell it but his girl friend did and when he checked the connections he found the leak and it was propane causeing the smell.

[Poolside Pyro]

Mike,

I see you are connected to a lot of posting related to propane and safety. Maybe you can help me.

I have a 60 gallon propane tank in my front yard. When I call the gas companies and ask them to run a line into my studio, which is indoors and part of my home, they say they cannot run a high pressure line into the house.

Do I need 7 - 8 psi? That is what I thought I needed and they said the maximum they can pump in is 1/2 psi and still be legal.

Any suggesions for me?

[Dale M.]

Ask to see the actually written law/rule/ordinance....

NFPA allows up to 20psi in many cases. It could be a local ordinance or they just may not know the law and are going by what the have always been told.

If they produce written ordinance, you will have to petition people who have written rules/ordinance (if local government) for exemption...

Dale

[laserglass]

Originally Posted by Poolside Pyro

Do I need 7 - 8 psi? That is what I thought I needed and they said the maximum they can pump in is 1/2 psi and still be legal. Any suggesions for me?

i run my major/minor combination torch off of standard natural gas pressure. so some torches will work off 1/2 psi, others will not.

[MikeAurelius]

As Dale says......

It depends on how the propane supplier sets up their tanks. I've got a 500 gallon tank in my side yard, with a 2 PSI regulator on the tank and a 1/3 PSI regulator on the house. Some suppliers just use the 1/3 PSI regulator on the tank.

They may only be using 3/8" softwall copper for the in-ground line as well, and that isn't well suited to higher pressures either.

Sit down with them and explain what you need and why. Find out why they are saying they can only run a maximum of a half psi. If they won't consider going higher, then you have no choice but to stick with the 20 pound bbq tank where you can get as much pressure as you want.

[CO_Phantom]

Originally Posted by Allie_T

The thing that strikes me about this story is that the couple went away on vacation and left their dog locked in a garage!

I didnt' say that he was locked in the garage. They left the garage door open. It was several years ago, they lived out in the country and at that time we rarely locked anything.

-Amy

[Norskiglass]

Thanks for the 411 Mike ~people need to see what can happen.....and I needed a reminder to have my lines inspected

[aks141]

1. My dad recently converted from a charcoal grill to a gas one. Has always stored it in the garage, BBQ's in the driveway. Garage is attatched. I just sent him an email to get it out of there. I know he will still want to keep the grill inthe garage. I'm thinking the most reasonable thing for him to do then is to unhook the tank each time and store it outside. Any other suggestions?

2. Once upon a time, I heard someone say there are petroleum based soaps that should not be used for testing line connections. True? and if so, can you name some brands to avoid please.

[MikeAurelius]

1. No tanks in the garage, especially if it is attached. There are covers available for grills, I'd get one for him for his birthday or just because.

2. I use the pre-mixed bubble solution that kids use to make bubbles. Works like a charm.

[aks141]

Thanks Mike. I'll talk to him about the cover, it will involve builing a platform to store the grill on since currently there is just the driveway and sidwalk for level and stable ground. I think he will prefer to remove the tank each time and put it in a box. So I'll change my question to "any objections to that?"

[MikeAurelius]

Nope!

[CreditRiverArtGlass]

Mike...Daniel Johnson, the guy who died in this explosion, was the brother of my neighbor's brother-in-law. So sad.


Now my storing the tank outside question for you, Mike... I'm on a HH w/ a 27# tank of propylene & yes, it's in my studio, but won't be for long, after reading all of your warnings. (I didn't think it applied to ME!! It's not propane, afterall! ) I'm also switching to a new torch w/ propane & an oxycon soon, but will have the propylene outside before that.

Question: I turn off my propylene after each torch session, burning off what's still in the hose while the torch is still lit (learned that @ Malcolm's). When the tank is outside, do you need to be as diligent about turning off the tank & clearing the line between uses? Or do others just leave it on all the time? (turn off/on sounds like the wrong term here! open/close??)

Thanks!!

(also, while I have your attention Mike ...what do you think about the inline duct fans that I can pick up @ Menards for under $40?? Efficient enough for ventilation?? My space is like 11'sq, torch will be a Mini CC. Thanks again!!)

[MikeAurelius]

Question one: Yes, you still need to be diligent about shutting down and clearing the line, regardless of where the tank is located. The line still runs into your studio area, and represents a possible hazard in case of a fire that could rupture the fuel gas line.

Question two: I *HATE* them. They do not work well as main exhaust fans. They usually don't move enough air under pressure, as they rely on the fact that the airstream is already moving. They don't have a whole lot of horsepower, so their usage is extemely limited to very short runs. You are far better off spending $150 to $200 on a fan designed for moving air at specific volumes.

[CreditRiverArtGlass]

Thanks Mike!

Answers all of my questions.

[Otter's Flame]

Mike,
I have looked at the link you provided and all the news stories I can find. Where does it give a cause for the explosion? So far I don't see that this has been determined to be a propane explosion. Do you have an updated link with more information?

Otter