Build your own Holding Tank

[jokersdesign]

Originally Posted by smutboy420

Hey that does look good.




If its a reguler air compresser its not something you want to do. As it compresses in the cylinder it can explode and bend the connecting rods and trash the head.

It has to be an oiless type compresser. To do that.


Works all the time at places that fill o2 tanks.

But why wouldn't it work? I never seen any thing saying it can't and don't work all the time every day somewere. But the mear fact that there are dozzones of Co. that make all kind of compressers for compressing O2 at all sorts of difrent rates. tells me Its 100% doable.

Maybe the compressor sucks in air way faster than the concentrator can produce it???
Just curious

When that happens it just causes the gen to instead of being a pressure swing asorbshin PSA type set up it becomes a Vacumme swing asorbshion type generater. Then it increases its output. Becasue its easier to push threw to a vaccume then it is to push agains the pressure in the secondary side of the gen.

The real problems are if you want to go high pressure. O2 has to be pumped up to pressure slowly or it heats up and can cause the tank to expolde if filling high pressure like 2,200psi. Then there is just the danger of having a tank thats being filled and emptied and refilled over and over. So you'r tanks have to be hydrostadicy tested every so ofton to make sure they are still good.

But there are a few brands of compressers used for medical use that recompress o2 from an o2 genarator up to 125 psi some only do 80 psi.
But they are out there. The one I have will only boost it to 80psi. But that is a lot higher then 9 psi.

I have been wanting to make a holding tank and recompresser product for a few years now.. But never got around to putting the finishing touches on it. I never realy figured there would ever be a market for it. Esp sence its already taking a long long time for peep to beleve you can actully even make your own o2 in the first place. LOL LOL
The bead world knows it can be done. But larger stuff and the world of boro. i'd have an easer time tring to tell make them to belive in the tooth fairy or the easter bunny. For the last 9 years
I have been told I must run a small torch.
Nope We run a delta and a red max off of our o2 set up.
Oh well we must not work big then. nope I have worked 4 inch heavy wall pyrex tube. Making big vases on the lathe 7 inches wide and 16 inches tall no problem.

Oh then it must cost so much to run that its more expensive then tanked. Nope its about $1 per K tank, or about $25 for a liquids worth of o2.

So I think the o2 pimp has done a good job at getting every on to think air only comes from welding stores. Thats why they keep the o2 and N2 gens way way in the back. The last thing they want any one to see.

yo smutboy what options are out there to recompress o2 or to refill ktanks?

[Bunyip]

Here is a light-duty "K" Tank filling solution from OGSI:

http://www.ogsi.com/glass_artist_og_...compressor.php

The initial cost is probably fairly high, but it probably pays for itself and more in the long run.

[smutboy420]

Here is a light-duty "K" Tank filling solution from OGSI:

http://www.ogsi.com/glass_artist_og_...mpressor.p hp

The initial cost is probably fairly high, but it probably pays for itself and more in the long run.

"Light duty" is a gross understatement on the rix micro booster.
They cost about 5 grand and frankly are not made for any kind of industrial use and are meant for hobbiest scuba divers to top off partially empty tanks.

They can only fill a tank a day and only running it a few times a week they need to constantly have costly rebuilds. every few months. For the cost of one of the boosters you can buy a real industrial o2 generator and then you would have no need to fill tanks whats so ever inless you wanted to take tanks off site from your shop. But inless you work out of the shop alot and I mean a real lot. I can't see it ever ever paying for its self. esp when you factor in the cost to run a generator and the cost to run the booster. Then add in the cost of constant maintenance plus down time. It just don't compute.

Esp when you can just get a big o2 Gen. and have a few tanks a day worth of o2. and onsite pro4 makes one K tank about every 6 hours. A pro8 makes a K tanks worth every 3 hours. IF some one needed still yet even more o2 they could just add a second gen. For less then the booster to fill tanks.

yo smutboy what options are out there to recompress o2 or to refill ktanks?

Most options are not real practical nore cheap. The best system is with a haskel type booster. If some one just had to fill tanks. Its also the safest way to fill high pressure. But they to have draw backs that make it not to practical for a glass blower sense you still need a source of o2 to re compress. And a source of compressed air or other compressed gas to power it. (or a hydraulic haskal pump driven by a hydraulic fluid pump will work to.)
Plus the lower the psi of the incoming o2 thats being compressed will effect how long it takes to fill a tank. If you are filling the piston with say 9psi o2 to be recompressed in to the tank. there will be a lot less o2 volume wise then if you had say 100psi going in to the piston each stroke.

So a haskel pump or any other pump would do much better if hooked to a real o2 gen. But then if you have a real o2 gen. then there is no real need to fill a tank at all. So its back to a catch 22 again.

Now if someone wanted to use a medical concentrator or a few to produce there o2 But wanted to store it in a tank and also wanted it at a higher pressure then 8 or 9 psi. There is an mid way compromise solution thats much more practical. The mid way solution is to have a holding tank and a smaller low pressure o2 booster to pump it up to 80-125 psi in the holding tank So they could hold much more o2 then if just at 9psi.

A ready made system like that would be about $600-$700 with a 30 gallon tank gauges and cut off switch to turn the booster and o2 generator off when the tank is filled to max psi and to turn it back on again when it drops.

[Trey Cornette]

Hey, Great info Smutboy!
Where would I find a ready made system?

A ready made system like that would be about $600-$700 with a 30 gallon tank gauges and cut off switch to turn the booster and o2 generator off when the tank is filled to max psi and to turn it back on again when it drops.

[jokersdesign]

Originally Posted by smutboy420

A ready made system like that would be about $600-$700 with a 30 gallon tank gauges and cut off switch to turn the booster and o2 generator off when the tank is filled to max psi and to turn it back on again when it drops.

where would one get one of these systems?

[Paul Ewing]

hmmm this sounds like a new line for HotAssTools

BTW, Smutboy, I just got back from Germany last night and am going to set up my new controler on my bigger kiln so I can try a couple of bigger pieces this weekend.

Cheers,

[smutboy420]

Hey, Great info Smutboy!
Where would I find a ready made system?

There are a few on the market already but costing in the $2,000 range and come with smaller holding tanks and are used maining in the dental and jewlery trade and other manifacturing. But they Come with the Big price tags to.


h

mmm this sounds like a new line for HotAssTools

I have only done them on a custom basis and have always thought it would be a good thing to add to the HotAsstool product line. But I always like to take a lot of time abusing any thing I make for awhile to see how it holds up and make changes and beat it some more before moving on to haveing some thing I want to have as some thing to bring on as a new product. But now that I have difrent variations. And pretty good supply line on just about any part for any thing I can spec out. I have been wanting to add this to the glass equiptment line. Now that more and more glas workers are useing concentrators. Its looking like there may be a need to justify going to the next step with these and add em to the line. I just kind of always thought the price tag of $600-$700 would put it the "kind of expensive" price range
For what it is that it does. BUt I have been wrong about stuff like that before and some times demand for some thing out weighs any dought if some thing is realy worth the cost to the end user. Some times they know they need some thing more then I might think. Hum maybe there time has come. 8 years ago you couln't pay some one to belive you could even make your own o2 well alone find any one who was. Or that would need a storage system For the lower presure concentrators. But concentrators seem to almost be a morm now in this realm of glass.

[jokersdesign]

Originally Posted by smutboy420

There are a few on the market already but costing in the $2,000 range and come with smaller holding tanks and are used maining in the dental and jewlery trade and other manifacturing. But they Come with the Big price tags to.


h

I have only done them on a custom basis and have always thought it would be a good thing to add to the HotAsstool product line. But I always like to take a lot of time abusing any thing I make for awhile to see how it holds up and make changes and beat it some more before moving on to haveing some thing I want to have as some thing to bring on as a new product. But now that I have difrent variations. And pretty good supply line on just about any part for any thing I can spec out. I have been wanting to add this to the glass equiptment line. Now that more and more glas workers are useing concentrators. Its looking like there may be a need to justify going to the next step with these and add em to the line. I just kind of always thought the price tag of $600-$700 would put it the "kind of expensive" price range
For what it is that it does. BUt I have been wrong about stuff like that before and some times demand for some thing out weighs any dought if some thing is realy worth the cost to the end user. Some times they know they need some thing more then I might think. Hum maybe there time has come. 8 years ago you couln't pay some one to belive you could even make your own o2 well alone find any one who was. Or that would need a storage system For the lower presure concentrators. But concentrators seem to almost be a morm now in this realm of glass.

dude, I'd so want one. I'd just want a 60 gallon tank though.

[smutboy420]

A 60 gallon one could be done. But the price jumps up a bit on the tanks the bigger and bigger they get. As well as shipping costs. And the actual labor becomes a lil bit difrent on some thing that big. Being that there harder to handle and work on. Can't put them in the back seat of the car.
But I'm super close to the place That I can get tanks from. So getting a 60 gallon tank is easy.

[Trey Cornette]

Tanks are easy to buy locally. How about a kit where you would supply your own tank. I am great with my hands but need some help with the supplies and knowledge. I assume it would be a compressor and some sort of solenoids shut it and the concentrator off?

[smutboy420]

Tanks are easy to buy locally. How about a kit where you would supply your own tank.

I have also thought of the add your own tank option. As well As even maybe down the line haveing pre plumbed storage tanks for low pressure storage. in the larger sizes.

I'm still not 100% sure If I want to go with this as a reg production item and may just keep to doing them on a custom basis. Mainly So I have a lil more control of Who they go to and that they will be used in a maner consistant with what they are designed to do and To ensure they are realy what someone needs for there situation. Being that it involves compressing o2 Even tho all the componits are able to be used for compressed o2. Thats providing its used properly and some one don't try to use it for some thing else. I don't want to make a safe product and still have some one go do some thing to render it unsafe. Were as a custom system I can be more one on one with the actual end user. Rather then someone just doop-ti-do la-la'da sees it and after 5 mins of consideration just thinks its cool and hits add to cart and orders it. Not having any idea if its really what they need or not.

I assume it would be a compressor and some sort of solenoids shut it and the concentrator off?

They need Pressure Switches plumbed in to the input lines of the holding tank to control a relay to turn the oxygen compressor on and off and a relay switched electric outlet to plug the Concentrator in to. To turn the Concentrator on and off. So that when the tank is full and its not compressing the o2 it will shut off the concentrator.

I still need to test this with a few difrent brands of concentrators to make sure. There are no issues with one vrand over anouter. Not working right because of some of the alarms and other things that may make the internal diagnostics of the concentrator think something is wrong and make the anoying buzzer keep going off or some thing. LIke for instance most buzz for 2 seconds when they are first turned on every time. So that right there might be a problem for some. Well lol "rip the freaking wires out" might work for me. But some how tho I would feel funny telling someone else to do it to there own thing.

[jokersdesign]

I'm sure to made room to allow multi-concentrators to be connected together for more volume?

so you need a beta tester for your system?

[smutboy420]

previous tests on these the pump was handling 4 concentrators That where 5 LPM each 9psi. and where pumping them in to a holding tank at 80psi

and I have also tried it hooked up to my large o2 gen as the o2 source. But I never had any way of measuring the volume so I never did to much except tweek the system and work on it a lil without having to have all the lil R2-D2 things all going while I was working on it. nore have to transport them back and forth between the glass shop and the house.
I now have flow meters that can do flow rates up to 100lmp. But I know even if the pump can handle larger amounts it there are some safty considerations involving the speed at wich o2 is compressed. So I never wanted to go past 4 concentrators. I'll have to look in to the specs some more for the pump and see what its max flow rate is . its all in cfm so I'll just have to do some simple math. then compair to some data on safe filling rates for 02 at difrent presures and temps. To find out what the max lmp should be.

[jokersdesign]

so your say I can get one on a custom order

[shawnette]

Originally Posted by jokersdesign

so your say I can get one on a custom order

Me, too!

[jokersdesign]

so whats the dilly yo

[smutboy420]

Best I think I can do is june july ish. I got a lot of other projects already going right now. and some shop moving going on soon that I need to get done . Before I can move on to getting some of the o2 booster systems made up. But I have been doing some leg work on it so I can have all the goodies I need lined up. And doing some drawings of how the encloser cabinit and tank will all be layed out on the finished unit. and running #'s and that good stuff.

But it is the very next thing I am going to work on. After I clear off the slate a lil. BTW joker. I'm getting some nice custom cabinits for them casting machiens made up as we speak. (or is that "type" on the internet?)

[jokersdesign]

Originally Posted by fyrsmith

"Maybe the compressor sucks in air way faster than the concentrator can produce it???" Yes, also see my post above about the dangers of oxy + oil.

-Don-

Well what if you have an oiless compressor?

[Tirian]

Trey -- I had to chime in for a moment...

I took your plans and with a stop at Home Depot and about $50 later, I had the holding tank setup you described. It is phenominal!

I run my Sequal oxycon at 10 lpm and there is PLENTY of extra O2 push when I need it -- thank you so much for posting the instructions! You rock!

Jim

[pittypat]

Ok, I guess I will be the "dumb" one!! I built the holding tank using a 5 instead of 7...that is the only difference I can see. I let my concentrator run for about 20 minutes to try to fill the tank up...no go!! The tank gauge never moves...please help me!!!!!
Thanks, pat

[JulieV]

Did anyone copy this tutorial from Trey? If so, please contact me. Trey has given my permission to ask here. He lost it when he changed servers.....

[pittypat]

Hey Julie, I have a hard copy if no one else speaks up. I will gladly take the credit for having the only copy the LAST time he lost it!! LOL

I will look on my computer or I can scan.

[Melinda]

Originally Posted by pittypat

Hey Julie, I have a hard copy if no one else speaks up. I will gladly take the credit for having the only copy the LAST time he lost it!! LOL

I will look on my computer or I can scan.

I'd love to have a copy of this too. I need more power.

[jhamilton117]

Ditto here!

[shawnette]

http://web.archive.org/web/200806101...ktutorial.html

[Raimond]

Thanks Shawnette.
I would add one step to the process. Clear the tank of air. Remove the brass adaptor and insert the oxygen hose from the OxyCan and let it run for 10 mins. This will remove the 21% air from the holding tank and replace it with the supply oxygen from the compressor.

[JulieV]

Ha! Perfect! Many thanks.

[pittypat]

Damn, Shawnette!! You are fast! I had tried the wayback and couldn't find it. I was just coming back to say it isn't in my backup, so I was going to scan my copy.

NOW I will put it in my backup file!

[JulieV]

Thanks everybody! I appreciate it.

[shawnette]

I have it bookmarked.