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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2012-02-04, 7:51am
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,223
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How do you make frit stick?
Okay, what am I doing wrong? I can't seem to get frit to stick to a bead, no matter how hot the bead is when I try rolling it in the frit.
I AM learning... painfully, in some cases. Today's Big Lesson was "don't put that perfect bead you finally made into the fiber blanket while it's still soft."
sigh
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2012-02-04, 8:07am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 21, 2005
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Hi Pat, see, every day is a good learning lesson .
Are you traveling a long distance from your frit dish to the flame? You will not likely be able to completely cover a bead circumference in one application. If this is what you are trying, that could be the problem. Heat, especially in this cold weather, will dissipate faster. Try dipping sections at a time, and immediately back to the flame and get that whole bead evenly hot before doing more frit application.
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Ofilia Cinta
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2012-02-04, 9:23am
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Salt Box Beads
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
Location: Heading to Paradise
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And just a quick heads up for you in case you didn't know, if you are using 96 coe frit blends on 104 coe you shouldn't use very much. The rule is 10-15% in quantity compared to the original bead size.
Have fun and believe it or not lampworking is like golf, there is always room for improvment, even we oldsters learn knew things almost every time we torch and we love it, well I know I do. Keeps it exciting and interesting and challenging.
You will always be learning and once you can get into a just do it, use it and learn about it frame of mind knowing that practice is the key you will win many battles..LOL
From your posts it would seem that you are that kind of person and already in to just do it. You are always going to have fun with lampworking.
Some poor people get so focused on the end result they forget to have fun with the journey.
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2012-02-04, 3:28pm
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
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Everything is 104, so that shouldn't be an issue, but the room I'm working in is VERY cold, especially after I turn the ventilation on, so that's probably the source of the problem. I'll try either moving my frit dish closer to the flame or just doing a small spot at a time. Thanks for the help!
I'm prepared to invest as much time as it takes to develop some skills - I don't expect to get good overnight, I know anything worth doing takes time. And soon I'll HAVE time... I'm retiring at the end of March. (Of course, I'm one of those people who will probably be busier after retirement than I am now, but that's all good!)
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2012-02-04, 3:37pm
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Happy Inner Dragon
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Join Date: Dec 03, 2009
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
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Yep, if it's cold, try having your frit directly on the bench under your flame. Then it's just a matter of dip, lift, dip and so on.
Oh, and I see you like a good boog, too That IS a boogieboard under your wing, isn't it?
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2012-02-04, 4:22pm
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
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Yup, that's my boogie board - and my dearly beloved gave me a longboard for my 55th birthday. Haven't had much time with that yet - we live inland, only get a couple of weeks a year at the beach, and last year I was recuperating from a fractured tailbone, and just couldn't risk a fall. I'm amphibious by nature - this time of year is wretched, because if I'm not in, on, or under the water on a regular basis I start to sink into despair.
Having flamework to play with is keeping my mind off winter, though! I'm going to have to get back on the torch tonight - the book I'm studying suggests using a spoon to hold the frit, which would let me get it closer to the torch, which should help. I wouldn't be so worried about the frit, but it's really hard to make a nudibranch without it... LOL
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2012-02-04, 4:37pm
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Know-it-all Megalomaniac
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Join Date: Oct 22, 2005
Location: Californication
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I would highly recommend taking a class. There are tons all over the
place, and if you can get yourself into a good basic class, you will
learn more in one day than trying to figure things out by yourself
in a year. Plus, you'll save money on not wasting glass and supplies.
Are you near any glass shops?
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2012-02-04, 5:22pm
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
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I've got nothing local. The closest place I can get a class is 45 minutes away, and what they offer is really limited. But I'm not sure I'd take classes anyway - I'm kind of a do-it-yourselfer by nature. I actually thrive on the figuring it out process. Granted, it takes longer, but I think I understand and retain better.
I'm not worried about wasting supplies - I have about 50 pounds of random Moretti, Lauscha and Vetrofond shorts that I picked up off eBay to practice with plus another 30 or 40 pounds of Moretti. I even have a little bit of Double Helix set aside for some day when I feel worthy!
Plus I have the philosophy that everything that I ruin is just Future Frit! (I think that's one of the things I like best about this - when I paint a bad canvas, there's no reusing that paint.)
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2012-02-04, 5:42pm
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Wonder-wench
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Join Date: Aug 09, 2010
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Hi Pat,
I second the idea of taking a class if you can, but if not, YouTube has lots of little clips to watch people making various types of beads and other stuff. It's nice because you can see some basic skills in action and get a sense of what you can do at the torch yourself.
Good luck, have fun and woohoo about the impending retirement!
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Elizabeth
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2012-02-04, 6:10pm
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
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oh, believe me, I spend as much time watching lampworking video on youtube as I possibly can! And I bought a couple of really good books, plus I'm gradually working my way through everything on this site - just trying to balance the study with the practice!
The funny thing is, I watched the youtube stuff for a couple of weeks before I even opened the box on my starter kit, and I really felt comfortable when I started.
The scariest part of the whole process for me is how *fast* I'm getting too comfortable. Ya'll would fall down laughing if you saw me gear up to torch - not just eyewear and natural fabrics, I'm wearing Kevlar sleeves, a leather welders apron, REALLY determined not to burn myself. Then last night I'm trying to figure out why my feet are so cold... and I realize I'm standing on my steel stove board in BARE FEET.
sigh
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2012-02-04, 9:31pm
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Senior Member
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Maybe you are close to Corning and can take a class there...
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2012-02-05, 5:18am
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
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Over 3 hours from Corning - I haven't even managed to visit the museum in over 40 years. (The glass flowers at the Corning museum are one of the reasons I've always wanted to take up flamework!) I hope to remedy that this summer, but more likely next year.
Tried the frit in a spoon technique last night, and it worked brilliantly! Used some of my home made "crushed mistakes" frit on one, and some Double Helix Aurae on another - pleasently surprised to find that I can get it to react on a Hot Head, now I have to try it on other base colors.
I know, I know, in theory I shouldn't be meddling with fancy techniques until I have the basics grooved, but I've got a low threshold for boredom. I split my sessions in half; work on fundamentals for awhile then free myself to play. Had an *almost* successful implosion last night, badly cracked because I kept it out TOO long before cooling it in the fiber - shopping trip to buy vermiculite today.
I'm having an awful lot of fun with this.
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2012-02-05, 12:20pm
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one day at a time
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: We are MOVING!!!
Posts: 8,319
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Trial and error, you will get it. It is purely a matter of timing.
To help get a good coat, make a little shallow "well" in your pile of frit, and this is for when you roll it, the frit will cover well up to the holes. I put my frit in little mini stainless steel gravy boats. Any kind of shallow metal cup will do, or one of the metal frit holders that the glass supply vendors sell. Those are nice. I never liked putting my frit on a flat surface, because it flattens out and I can't get a good roll in it.
You shape your bead in the flame first and get it evenly rounded. Then you let cool slightly while still turning the mandrel, so you don't lose the shape. Then hit the flame again to get just the surface of the bead hot again (while still turning), and immediately go down to your frit bowl to roll. This quick heating and moving down to the frit ensures the surface is hot enough to pick up the frit, and since you only reheated the surface quickly, the bead won't warp because you didn't overheat the core.
After the roll, and when you get back in the flame again to melt the frit in, you might noticed the bead is a little out of shape, but don't worry about that. As you reheat and melt it in, you can reshape too.
A video would be better, but I hope this helps!
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2012-02-05, 1:24pm
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Member
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Join Date: Nov 17, 2010
Location: Iowa
Posts: 72
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my frit dish is a metal spoon rest that sits on the top an electric coffee cup warmer. this keeps the frit warm while it's waiting.
I also have a small ceramic heater on the left side of my work space to help heat up the area as well as the glass.
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2012-02-05, 8:01pm
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one day at a time
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
Location: We are MOVING!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorisue
my frit dish is a metal spoon rest that sits on the top an electric coffee cup warmer. this keeps the frit warm while it's waiting.
I also have a small ceramic heater on the left side of my work space to help heat up the area as well as the glass.
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This might be a good thing to do if you live in an area where the temps drop really low. But you really don't need to keep frit heated, it's the hot bead and just the right time that makes the difference.
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2012-02-05, 8:25pm
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Jacqueline Parkes
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Join Date: Nov 04, 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,497
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Your glass just isn't hot enough. It is pretty quick timing. Heat well, roll in frit. I have my frit on the table so it still sticks even though I am having to bring the bead down to the frit. Quick quick steps. If the glass is not hot enough there is no "glue" for the frit to stick to. Ha, weird explanation I know.
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2012-02-06, 7:42am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 28, 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eregel
Over 3 hours from Corning - I haven't even managed to visit the museum in over 40 years. (The glass flowers at the Corning museum are one of the reasons I've always wanted to take up flamework!) I hope to remedy that this summer, but more likely next year.
Tried the frit in a spoon technique last night, and it worked brilliantly! Used some of my home made "crushed mistakes" frit on one, and some Double Helix Aurae on another - pleasently surprised to find that I can get it to react on a Hot Head, now I have to try it on other base colors.
I know, I know, in theory I shouldn't be meddling with fancy techniques until I have the basics grooved, but I've got a low threshold for boredom. I split my sessions in half; work on fundamentals for awhile then free myself to play. Had an *almost* successful implosion last night, badly cracked because I kept it out TOO long before cooling it in the fiber - shopping trip to buy vermiculite today.
I'm having an awful lot of fun with this.
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I disagree - try as many fancy techniques as you want - the goal at this point is to have fun - the more fun that you are having, the more time you will spend at the torch, the more time you spend at the torch, the more that you will learn. PPP [practice, practice, practice] but by all means have fun while you are doing it!!!
Welcome to the obsession
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Wendy Britt
"The creative process is a process of surrender, not control.” Julia Cameron
Scorpion on 2 concentrators
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2012-02-06, 9:30am
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eregel
. . . and some Double Helix Aurae on another - pleasently surprised to find that I can get it to react on a Hot Head, now I have to try it on other base colors.
I know, I know, in theory I shouldn't be meddling with fancy techniques until I have the basics grooved, but I've got a low threshold for boredom. I split my sessions in half; work on fundamentals for awhile then free myself to play. Had an *almost* successful implosion last night, badly cracked because I kept it out TOO long before cooling it in the fiber - shopping trip to buy vermiculite today.
I'm having an awful lot of fun with this.
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That's exactly what I did too when I first started lampworking. Followed Ofilia's fish tutorial second month into it and realized I had to learn how to make a hollow bead first so I did! lol! And implosions like you too! Six months into it I got Double Helix and Precision (was called R4/Rocio then) samplers for Christmas, spent five days over the holiday playing with the silver glass and never looked back!
All reducing silver glass works on a HH, striking ones are much trickier but if you are patient, some can work too but you won't get the same vibrancy in the colors. Post #4 in my silver color exchange SE9 in the patio has a list of what's reducing and what's striking if you are interested.
The ISGB Gathering is heading back to Rochester next year - you may want to consider attending if not for the classes, for all the glass goodies and presentations!
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Hayley
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2012-02-06, 10:08am
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burnin' glass just becuz
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Join Date: Apr 16, 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wendybritt
I disagree - try as many fancy techniques as you want - the goal at this point is to have fun - the more fun that you are having, the more time you will spend at the torch, the more time you spend at the torch, the more that you will learn. PPP [practice, practice, practice] but by all means have fun while you are doing it!!!
Welcome to the obsession
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i'd agree... try whatever interests you - that's a quick way to figure out what you enjoy doing vs not. Also, some of the more "advanced" techniques may come to you naturally - not everything takes practice for everyone. e.g. i've been able to encase, sculpt and use frit pretty effortlessly since my first few attempts but anything like precise dots, discs & hollows still escape me and i've been at this almost six years. i also don't practice those techniques much cuz i realized i really don't enjoy them anyway and they're not needed for the type of work i create at the moment (altho that may change in future).
Right now i focus my efforts and practice sessions on techniques i enjoy & actually want to learn - lately fine stringer work and murrini...
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2012-02-06, 11:24am
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
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Hayley - any idea what time of year Rochester is going to be? I'd love to plan on that, but I plan travel el a year out. Never Mind - I found the website and figured it out! May have to start planning for that.
And Wendy - one of my favorite quotes is Coach Bob's secret of life from Hotel New Hampshire: "Get obsessed, stay obsessed, and keep walking past the open windows." Could easily be my motto!
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2012-02-06, 9:17pm
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Senior Member
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A good source for helpful tips is the thread Kalera started titled "Ask me anything". She offered some advice about handling frit popping off (if that's what happens for you). She suggested after rolling the bead in the frit to give the frit a moment to absorb some heat from the bead before reintroducing it to the flame.
Andrea
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2012-02-06, 9:39pm
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Lampworkaholic!
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Join Date: Apr 22, 2008
Location: Cornelius, NC - because weather
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I use a stainless steel teaspoon with a short handle for frit. I bring my frit up to the bead. I make a round bead, then a disk bead on top of the round bead. I don't roll the disk in the frit, it is more like warm, touch, re-warm, touch, re-warm, touch. Three or four touches to get around the bead. Then I melt the disk with frit down into the base bead, letting the frit spread out. I do this for most of my frit beads with a couple of exceptions where I don't want the frit to spread out. I'm writing a tutorial on some of the ways I use frit.
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"And all will turn to silver glass, a light on the water, grey ships pass into the west." Annie Lennox
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2012-02-08, 4:01pm
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Triumphantly Knit!
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Join Date: Dec 30, 2010
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Keep walking past the open windows!!! Boy did that bring a smile to my face. I love that movie, I hate parts of it but love more of it (and the book).
Your bead needs to be hot for the frit to stick, so that's what's not working for you. A very common lesson for we noobies.
That and heat the frit in slowly so it doesn't go flying off the bead, them little pieces can be hot bouncing off your hand.
I don't believe in rules per se, other than safety--have fun and play, you'll learn what you need to along the way. I started off following along a lampworking book and the my add/boredom chip would kick in and I would just play.
I'm still having that problem. I want to work on a technique and I get distracted or an idea and try something else. thing is, I have beads I made a year ago that I love but haven't the slightest idea how to do it again, so I recommend taking notes and if you're organised enough pictures.
Learn at your own pace. When you can take a really good class from a really good teacher. Cheap is not always best.
Welcome to your latest addiction and enjoy the glory or playing with fire and melting glass.
namaste
Rowyn
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2012-02-08, 4:36pm
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
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I'm having much better results using the spoon method - it's REALLY cold in the room I'm using now, the instant I'm out of the flame things start to get solid really fast. (I think that's part of my issue with trying to pull thicker stringers, too - there's a really small window where I can work the hot glass) I suspect it's all going to get easier in a month or two when it warms up a little.
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2012-02-09, 3:00pm
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Heart of Flame
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Join Date: Apr 28, 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 163
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Hi Pat! I'm a relative newbie too and have enjoyed reading this thread. Are you close to Niagara Falls? Cause just up the road from there is a great bead store with a lampworking studio. I believe they have classes from time-to-time.
Good luck in your journey!
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Darryle
If you wish to learn the highest truth, begin with the alphabet - Japanese Proverb
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