5LPH Oxycon enough for champions centerfire?

Hiisi · #1 2014-08-23, 10:33am

Hi,

I'm planning to run my bethlehem champions centerfire (same as alpha) with 5LPH Devilbiss oxycon. Would one be sufficient with small scale boro work like goblets and marbles etc? Or do I need two? I would still have tanked oxy for outer jets.

This is the only affortable priced oxycon I've found in european stores:
http://www.tuffnellglass.com/content...centrator.html

Any opinions? Thanks.

2xMI · #2 2014-08-23, 5:44pm

I've never used an Alpha, so can't say anything from experience. The specs for the Alpha say 8 psi, and my guess is that might not be enough for boro for what you want to do.

Mimi

Just reread your question and you mentioned 5 LPH, and I think you mean 5 LPM? Anyway, the oxycon you mentioned is probably a 5LPM/ 8PSI?

Hiisi · #3 2014-08-24, 2:14am

Hi Mimi,

I guess its that 5lpM \ 8psi like you said. Do you think pairing two of those would make any difference?

Thanks for help

2xMI · #4 2014-08-24, 11:26am

It would make a difference, but I think it would still take a (very) long time to do what you want to do in boro. Can you use the tanked oxygen for both the inner and outer rings with a Y connector? Then you wouldn't need the concentrator.

I think if you post your question in the "TORCH" section, at the top of the page on Tips, Techniques, you'll get more answers from people who have a setup similar to yours.

Good luck!

Mimi

Hiisi · #5 2014-08-24, 12:32pm

Thanks for all the help!

houptdavid · #6 2014-08-24, 6:59pm

The Alpha uses 8 psi; 27 cu. ft./hr. (765 l/hr.) or 12.75 lpm. Hooking up a couple 5lpm ain't gonna cut it

Hiisi · #7 2014-08-25, 12:14am

Any ideas what kind of oxygen concentrator would be suitable?

The problem is tanked oxy is very expensive here in Finland so I'm trying to explore all the alternatives

Alaska · #8 2014-08-25, 1:22am

One could look into a set of three or four concentrators that are rated at 8 to 10 psi at 5 LPM. Three would be the minimum for consideration if the output is set at 4 LPM to achieve a higher O2 output.

There are firms that make commercial units that will supply the necessary output. However, the cost is much higher than used medical units. It would be nice to locate a fellow lampworker in your area that is using concentrators and yet willing to test your torch on their system.

marcel · #9 2014-08-25, 1:34am

I run my centrefire of the champion on 3 x 5lpm concentrators i think there 8 psi? i linked them together and it works like a charm. the outerfire is on tanked with an foot paddle. o the concentrators are used ones! in the 9 years i use them all the time on my centrefires of different brand torches. and i do boro all the time.

Hiisi · #10 2014-08-25, 2:48am

Thanks for your advices,

Unfortunately there aren't many lampworkers here to ask from. One guy I know uses same DeVilbiss 5lpm oxycon I'm considering to buy with his minor and he said it can easily melt smaller boro rod.

Recommended pressure for alpha is 8 psi and it should be same with concentrator. So I'd like to believe that with ~8lpm output I could do something with my centerfire even though it wouldn't be at full potential. Am I wrong?

marcel · #11 2014-08-25, 7:30am

a used oxycon doesn't deliver 100% pure oxygen if i have my oxycons on my Alpha i can only use 4 lpm to have some purity but the Alpha is a low pressure torch and uses more lpm! so you need more oxycons for better performance.
i used to use 2 of 5lpm for my boro but needed 3 to give it more purity! you have to because if there is not enough flow and you put the outerfire on you get carbon build up! but two will work if you only use the centre fire

why don't you use an bravo? i hope this helps

Hiisi · #12 2014-08-25, 11:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcel

why don't you use an bravo? i hope this helps

Thanks for info marcel!

The reason I don't use bravo is I don't own one

instead I got champion.
I like to do small scale work so 80% of the time centerfire is enough for me (I never use full flame potential anyway).

Do you think using smaller outer flame with "underpowered" centerfire helps with carbon building up?

Thanks

toothpayne · #13 2014-08-25, 1:43pm

We have recommended linking (2) 10 LPM/20psi units together with great success such as our BoroFire 1020 model. I believe the M-20 has similar specifications. Remember, you always need to adjust for altitude. We're at 5,000 ft. so it is very different from sea level. Always shoot for more than the base requirements.

Best of Luck.

accbyruth · #14 2014-09-16, 5:41pm

I run a Bethlehem Minnow which is similar to the alpha and I can tell you that a 5lpm is very underpowered. I can melt a small boro rod with it, but actually making anything takes forever. I use a different torch now for boro.

EchoTantuli · #15 2014-09-16, 5:52pm

I run 2 M15s with my alpha. I turn down the flow a bit for soft glass, and turn it up if I do boro.

Matze · #16 2014-09-18, 12:32am

Hi,

I personally did not work with the Alpha yet (but I will try a Bravo next week with the Alpha center fire), but I have a GTT Cricket. With the Cricket and a 5 LPM Devilbiss running at ~ 4.5 LPM (for better concentration if not turned up to max) I do a lot of small boro. My typical work are pendants around 10-15 gramms. I tell that in gramms because the shapes differ. That means i.e. cones with 60x12 mm. And I work about 30 minutes at such a pendant (including bail). Sure this would go faster with a bigger torch and more oxy, but I'm ok with it.
As far as I know the Cricket has a little more concentrated flame as the Alpha. So more heat in a smaller area. In fact I mess up most of my soft glass work because of that heat

and I want a bigger torch for my soft glass, not for my boro (isn't that weired?).
I guess that with that softer flame you would like to have two 5 LPM oxycons on your Alpha to handle Boro properly, but that should work fine.

I'm sorry that I don't manage to put pictures in here. Is there any way I can link to dropbox?

@toothpayne: I so would like to have a M20. But you can't get them here in europe. Anything that is over 5 LPM is extremly costy

Martina

KJohn · #17 2014-09-18, 1:25am

I work with an alpha, and I found that one M-15 was the minimum. I now run an M-20 and find it sufficient, but if I did any amount of boro work I would want two. It's such a great torch, but the flame does not produce a lot of radiant heat, something else you want to consider. Underpowering it will affect this type of torch more because of that. Good luck getting started!