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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2007-01-16, 12:13pm
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Unhappy ACK! HELP!

Sometime between this morning and now, I've developed a leak from the propane tank at the point of connection with the hose - forgive me for not knowing the technical name but it's literally the knob you twist and tighten into the tank. Seemed to be sputtering right at the threads between the connector and the tank.

I could hear a little spittle noise (intermittently) after I turned my torch off and found that I couldn't bleed the line. Had to disconnect and ended up spewing a small amount of gas... Love the smell of that ethyl mercaptan (sp?). Blech!

Anyway, tank is still outside but I'm not detecting a leak from it so is my connector leaking? I checked the threads and the O ring and didn't see a problem. I didn't have a chance to do the soapy water test, as I wanted the damn thing disconnected immediately.

And what on earth would make it leak all of the sudden? Like one minute it was fine, the next it wasn't. It has been extremely cold here but the tank pressure was just fine and the temperature in the garage was not adjusted.

I've got Harley from Glasscraft slated to give me a call but he's out to lunch so I'm just sitting here biting my nails wondering if I'm going to be able to work this week...
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Old 2007-01-16, 12:21pm
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Maybe it needed to be tightened? Things loosen. Vibrations do cause screw thingys to loosen.
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  #3  
Old 2007-01-16, 12:28pm
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Kevan, I tried that. When I first heard the sputter I tightened everything down...the tank knob and the connector - was still hearing sputtering at the connection...
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Old 2007-01-16, 12:33pm
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Here's the connector I'm talking about...

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Old 2007-01-16, 12:59pm
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Well, I talked with Harley and he had me clean the threads at both the tank and the connector with a wire brush. The connection did seem better this time, as I was able to bleed the line but, before I did so, I still heard a teeny bit of spittle there. Did the soapy water test, too, but couldn't get bubbles to form...Arg, this is so frustrating...

Guess I'll be on my way to U.S. Welding tomorrow - have them check the tank and the hose for me.
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  #6  
Old 2007-01-16, 1:33pm
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Do you have an o-ring on the end like the picture shows? If so, check the o-ring, it's quite possible it has a small divot out of it, or a crack. You may need to use a magnifier to see it.

I'm kind of wincing at using a wire brush on the threads -- the threads only hold the connection in place and are not part of the seal. This is either a metal to metal seal, or an o-ring type seal (basically the same thing). The part that does the sealing is the end of the unit, not the threads. If you have an o-ring, using a wire brush will definately mess up the o-ring.

What I'd do is look inside the threaded connection point on the propane tank itself. It is quite possible you've got some foreign material jammed in against the female side of the fitting inside the propane port. You'll need a flashlight and a pair of tweezers. It's a metal fitting and you need to be sure that the metal fitting is clean of all debris.

To reiterate though, I'm really thinking it is more the o-ring than anything else.
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Old 2007-01-16, 1:39pm
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I agree with Mike.... Beginning to think somebodies good idea of using a "O" ring may not be so good.... They do deteriorate and if you can't replace it, whole assembly is junk. This subject was lightly touch on in a different thread about hose quality and longevity....

Dale
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Old 2007-01-16, 1:42pm
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OH Mike and Dale - thank god you replied! I'm gonna go check the O-ring...I was careful not to use the wire brush around the O-ring and I only did it lightly ... I'll check inside the tank thread too and see if I can see anything stuck in there... Thanks!!!!!!
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Old 2007-01-16, 2:02pm
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Okay, O-ring on the connector is fine, nice and tight, still has spring to it, no knicks even under a magnifying glass...

BUT... I did find this inside the tank connection...this rubber ring looks like it's about to fall apart and come off...





Time for a new tank?
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Old 2007-01-16, 2:20pm
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Yeah - take the tank back to your supplier and point out the problem to him. That's part of the ODP internal valve, and it is pushed back into the valve assembly.

What is the white rectangle on the valve assembly immediately above the line from the box that says "It's practically falling off". It looks like something attached to the brass, or perhaps a reflection from the lighting, I can't be sure.

The O-Ring should seal cleanly with the line of brass that the suspect white rectangle is part of, and I almost wonder if that isn't where the leak is coming from.
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  #11  
Old 2007-01-16, 2:43pm
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Thanks, Mike!

The white rectangley bit is a reflection from the flashlight. At that point, there is a notch cut out of the threads... looks like it's on purpose as it's a precision cut and it's on my other tank too - same manufacturer.

Now I bought this tank and I just have it filled at the U-Haul place close by. Should I have them purge the tank (just filled, too! ) and then how do I dispose of it? Or do you think it can be fixed?
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Old 2007-01-16, 2:49pm
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We need a one-stop shop for all gas needs for beadmakers I swear! LOL
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  #13  
Old 2007-01-16, 3:31pm
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Is there an exchange place anywhere around you? I'd do an exchange on the tank for a newly filled one.

Most of the exchange places test each tank when they come in, so you really aren't passing the problem on to someone else. Maybe hang a tag on the valve stem to indicate that the tank leaks at the valve. When they get the tank back at the facility, they will check it out, and replace the valve with a new one.

As long as you are keeping the tank outside, I would continue to use it until it is near empty, then take it in and exchange it.
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  #14  
Old 2007-01-16, 7:03pm
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Here's a photo of the inside of the other tank's connection...



Much better IMO.
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  #15  
Old 2007-01-16, 8:51pm
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Wow, good camera shots....

Yah, rubber piece in valve definitely looks as it needs attention....

I would mark tank with "sharpie" (permanent marker) as to something like "defective valve" before you exchange it. That way its there for all to see and they just won't pass problem on to some other....

IF its "your" tank and want it repaired, it will probable cost something like $25 for valve plus the labor to pump out tank and fix it and refill if you can find a place to do it. Seems almost cheaper to buy new tank if you don't want to do exchange.

Dale
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Old 2007-01-16, 10:16pm
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Thanks, Dale! Yeah, I'm thinking I'll buy a new one since this is my tank or just have the one tank now instead of two. How do I dispose of a bad tank after it's been purged?

One more thing I just found out from someone who PM'd me... This would ultimately be the wrong fitting for this connection, yes? The rubber o-rings meet each other but do not make a good seal (thus the degredation of the OPD valve ring) so I'd need a purely brass fitting on the hose, correct? I've been using this set up for YEARS and never even thought of that but it makes sense that the o-ring would seal better with metal than rubber to rubber...
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Old 2007-01-16, 10:48pm
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Hey Amber
LOWES and a couple other companies just TRADE OUT your (Barbeque Sized) tank for a new one when you want a refill. I don't know if that's what you are using, but if you are this should help. The Blue Rhino company supplies those folks, and they check all fittings before re-using them. If I have a bad one, I write a note on the tank in Black magic marker before I trade it!
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We need a one-stop shop for all gas needs for beadmakers I swear! LOL
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  #18  
Old 2007-01-17, 4:42am
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Amber, months ago I had what seems like the same problem. Leak at tank-connection. I think I even posted about it on another Forum. I called the tank manufacturer who sent me a new tank, and they sent me a check to cover my next supply of propane. They sent me a form which they said the supplier had to sign when he was to come and PICK IT UP HIMSELF. The form had the tank number on it. This was, (I imagine) to ensure that the tank would not be resold. The company said they wanted to make sure the tank was taken off the market. I don't think I should name the tank manufacturer here. I was given instructions to watch, and insist that my supplier completely purge the tank every time it was to be filled. The company rep. said they should purge from 3-5 times before filling the tank. The replacement tank which was sent to me worked fine with the same hose. If you have a tank by the same Co. and don't have their phone number, you can PM me and I'll give you the phone number. Better results by phone, especially if you have the name of the Rep. Hope this helps.

Glitzy ( Audrey)

P.S. Same as with you, no problem one day, next day problem with leaking. Don't know if this was a factor, but we had a very unusual heat wave. Temperature soared.
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Old 2007-01-17, 7:28am
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Audrey - thanks for the information. We are having the exact opposite issue here - drastic DROP in temperature. I'll PM you later for the information.
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Old 2007-01-17, 9:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Naos* View Post
Thanks, Dale! Yeah, I'm thinking I'll buy a new one since this is my tank or just have the one tank now instead of two. How do I dispose of a bad tank after it's been purged?

One more thing I just found out from someone who PM'd me... This would ultimately be the wrong fitting for this connection, yes? The rubber o-rings meet each other but do not make a good seal (thus the degredation of the OPD valve ring) so I'd need a purely brass fitting on the hose, correct? I've been using this set up for YEARS and never even thought of that but it makes sense that the o-ring would seal better with metal than rubber to rubber...

Actually the rubber to rubber seal is probably a no-no.... I don't like hoses with the "o" ring on them... The were designed to seal with old style tank valve that were purely metal to metal seal (pre OPD days) that required a wrench to tighten or loosen... The advent of spin on hand tight connections brought about the "o" ring.... The OPD valve tanks now have its own seal so the "o" ring connector is sort of obsolete. If you can, in future when getting new hose try to find one without "o" ring to use with OPD valve tanks...

Dale
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Old 2007-01-17, 9:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volleyer View Post
Amber, months ago I had what seems like the same problem. Leak at tank-connection. I think I even posted about it on another Forum. I called the tank manufacturer who sent me a new tank, and they sent me a check to cover my next supply of propane. They sent me a form which they said the supplier had to sign when he was to come and PICK IT UP HIMSELF. The form had the tank number on it. This was, (I imagine) to ensure that the tank would not be resold. The company said they wanted to make sure the tank was taken off the market. I don't think I should name the tank manufacturer here. I was given instructions to watch, and insist that my supplier completely purge the tank every time it was to be filled. The company rep. said they should purge from 3-5 times before filling the tank. The replacement tank which was sent to me worked fine with the same hose. If you have a tank by the same Co. and don't have their phone number, you can PM me and I'll give you the phone number. Better results by phone, especially if you have the name of the Rep. Hope this helps.

Glittery ( Audrey)

P.S. Same as with you, no problem one day, next day problem with leaking. Don't know if this was a factor, but we had a very unusual heat wave. Temperature soared.
This all sounds well and good.... IF YOU are original purchaser of tank and have been sole owner and in your possession all the time. IF you are using a exchange tank, all this means nothing as tanks are not followed by serial number and most gas suppliers who fill exchange tanks don't bother to even purge them. At best tanks may be inspected to see if the are still within "inspection cycle". I have even gotten tanks that were empty with the "FULL PLUG" still in place.... Maybe "filler" did not tighten valve enough or it leaked, don't know but it was empty...

Dale
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Old 2007-01-19, 8:17am
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Default SAFETY

Dale, Yes, you're correct. Swapping tanks is not the best way to go. The more people between the manufacturer and the ultimate consumer , the more chance that someone along the way will goof up. Amber had stated that the tank was hers, so I thought I'd tell her of how it was handled in my case. I knew about swapping out tanks and so purchased my own. I'm very glad that I did as the company was very accomodating, but most of all I'm happy that the tank was being taken OFF the market. Not only would that keep a user safe from that tank, but also would protect the company from possible litigation. I gave the rep the number on the tank, and the seller of the tank and propane supplier to me had to return it to the company. I would never think of swapping out tanks. Thanks for the useful info. I always appreciate reading your input. Audrey
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Old 2007-01-25, 9:57am
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The same thing happened to me last year when I traded out two of my empty Blue Rhino tanks. One of the new tanks would not seal properly. When I tried the other I had a good seal and no problem. The one that would not seal properly is now on the BBQ and had a good tight seal to the BBQ.


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