Are larger pics less grainy??

Lisi · #1 2006-04-20, 4:26pm

I take mine with a Nikon Coolpix 4300 on macro and size 1024, and then I crop them down to size 500 across. The really close up pics on my beads have a grainy look to them. Is it better to take bigger files and then crop them down? Would they be more clear?

My camera can take up to size 2272. Here's what I take with 1024 and cropped. This is just one example, and it has been lightened and sharpened with PSE 2. They are crappy, I think.

Laurie L · #2 2006-04-20, 4:38pm

I dont have a nikon camera but are you reffering to the file size as in megapixels equalling a larger picture that has less grain or something else.

For example if you want a larger picture when you print them you would want to shoot the pic in the highest megapixel you can to give you the least grain.

Or did you mean something else.....

Laurie L · #3 2006-04-20, 4:40pm

I always shoot any picture in the largest megapixel size and then crop or do what needs to be done and I never have a grain issue....

sislonski · #4 2006-04-22, 7:21am

Yes, just don't crop such a small area to fill into the space, crop it a little larger then save smaller.

shari

Tanner Studios · #5 2006-04-22, 12:27pm

I hate to say this, but size doesn't matter. I have enlarged a six megapixle file up to billboards with out any grain ( that is if your not standing two feet away ). LOL

Heres digital photography's dirty little seceret. The imaging chip that captures the image is only so big and only so fast. And can only capture so much information. Let me over simplify to explain. Lets say our chip is ONE inch wide and can capture TEN dot per inch. ( l..........l ) Thats full resolution.
Now if we change the film speed to say four hundred. What happens in the chip, is it only capture about 50% of the dots. ( l. . . . . l ) Thats how it is able to shoot faster, same thing with size. So the computer has to guess about the missing information. And that is a major source of grain.

Other cause's are the quality of the camera and lens ( I shoot with a Nikon, so I know thats not your problem. Hee hee ). Also, and most importantly. The editing process. When you edit, you ask the computer to make changes to the image. The computer can not see the beads on the table so it has to guess. It will add or subtract dots ( interpolate ) to fulfill your request. So the more you do to your image the more the computer will guess and the more grain you will get. One of the biggest mistakes people make, is with sharpening. Sharpening should be the last thing you do, AND ONLY ONE TIME.

So shoot at full resolution, at the slowest EV and on a tripod (motion will cause softness and grain as well ).
Hope this helps
Scott
P.S. It really is not Grain, It's pixilation ( FYI ). Grain is not such a bad thing. It's just painted naughty ( Roger Rabbit )

Trishki · #6 2006-04-22, 2:08pm

Thanks for that digipix info!
It will really help me ! I did know about the sharpening last though. Makes a big difference.

Now, since you're such a guru...do you mind if I ask you a question...?
Sometimes you're asked to submit your pictures in RAW format...how do you make sure you get them out of the memory chip in that format. It seems like when I download them they automatically get converted to JPGs...(Or do you have to set yor camera to take the RAW images first???)

Tanner Studios · #7 2006-04-22, 3:29pm

Trishki, Here's the short answer.... Never send anyone the raw format! Your the artist, keep it that way! Remember digital cameras suck. Only after editing will you be able to compensate for their short comings.

Here is the long answer. It's a question of software. Pro software will let you save raw images. While consumer software may not ( read my tut here in the darkroom. Fastest way to better photography, page two. About saving as tiffs. ). Oh, and by the way all cameras use what is called raw format. So no need (or way ) to set the camera to this format.

Photoshop CS and maybe the current elements will let you open and save as raw ( under import ). Other software as well.

So back on point. When I said, your the artist, I meant you and you alone should decide what your art work should look like. Thats not to say, they may have special needs. That's where Tiffs come in. Jpegs are only good for web publishing.

If you learn levels, and can edit the basics, and save as a tiff. You can control what your image looks like, and still fulfill their needs for a format that they can work with. Don't give up your control. Learn levels! ( Sorry, just had to throw that in ). Now don't change the image size. But you can change the cropping with out changing the image size. Thats your right as an artist. But remember they may need to fit a layout size. so give them some room to crop to fit their layout.
Much love
Scott

sislonski · #8 2006-04-22, 9:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanner Studios

I hate to say this, but size doesn't matter. I have enlarged a six megapixle file up to billboards with out any grain ( that is if your not standing two feet away ). LOL

Heres digital photography's dirty little seceret. The imaging chip that captures the image is only so big and only so fast. And can only capture so much information. Let me over simplify to explain. Lets say our chip is ONE inch wide and can capture TEN dot per inch. ( l..........l ) Thats full resolution.
Now if we change the film speed to say four hundred. What happens in the chip, is it only capture about 50% of the dots. ( l. . . . . l ) Thats how it is able to shoot faster, same thing with size. So the computer has to guess about the missing information. And that is a major source of grain.

Other cause's are the quality of the camera and lens ( I shoot with a Nikon, so I know thats not your problem. Hee hee ). Also, and most importantly. The editing process. When you edit, you ask the computer to make changes to the image. The computer can not see the beads on the table so it has to guess. It will add or subtract dots ( interpolate ) to fulfill your request. So the more you do to your image the more the computer will guess and the more grain you will get. One of the biggest mistakes people make, is with sharpening. Sharpening should be the last thing you do, AND ONLY ONE TIME.

So shoot at full resolution, at the slowest EV and on a tripod (motion will cause softness and grain as well ).
Hope this helps
Scott
P.S. It really is not Grain, It's pixilation ( FYI ). Grain is not such a bad thing. It's just painted naughty ( Roger Rabbit )

Very interesting! Thanks for all that info. Wish I could have learned camera stuff years ago. I love taking pictures, more than making beads.

Tanner Studios · #9 2006-04-22, 10:41pm

Hey Sis, I've been taking photos for so long, I hate it. Thats why, or how I found glass ( go figure ? ) What I really want to know. Is their anyone out there that is willing pay me to Sea Kayak ? I'm pretty good at it. And, I'm still willing to learn. Hee hee
Scott

Trishki · #10 2006-04-23, 5:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tanner Studios

Trishki, Here's the short answer.... Never send anyone the raw format! Your the artist, keep it that way! Remember digital cameras suck. Only after editing will you be able to compensate for their short comings.

Here is the long answer. It's a question of software. Pro software will let you save raw images. While consumer software may not ( read my tut here in the darkroom. Fastest way to better photography, page two. About saving as tiffs. ). Oh, and by the way all cameras use what is called raw format. So no need (or way ) to set the camera to this format.

Photoshop CS and maybe the current elements will let you open and save as raw ( under import ). Other software as well.

So back on point. When I said, your the artist, I meant you and you alone should decide what your art work should look like. Thats not to say, they may have special needs. That's where Tiffs come in. Jpegs are only good for web publishing.

If you learn levels, and can edit the basics, and save as a tiff. You can control what your image looks like, and still fulfill their needs for a format that they can work with. Don't give up your control. Learn levels! ( Sorry, just had to throw that in ). Now don't change the image size. But you can change the cropping with out changing the image size. Thats your right as an artist. But remember they may need to fit a layout size. so give them some room to crop to fit their layout.
Much love
Scott

Thanks so much Scott! This was also really helpful. I know how to do tiff's, I dabble in levels (need to learn more) and have acess to latest Photoshop CS- all I need is TIME to learn it all, plus a few pointers. Yours really helped. THANKS!!!:

ShawnLynn · #11 2006-04-26, 8:34pm

So Scott, do you know of a good MAC program, besides Iphoto that would work like PSE ? (Iphoto does not work that well for anything).
Thanks~~ SHawn Lynn

Tanner Studios · #12 2006-04-27, 4:38am

ShawnLynn, Iphotos is not an editing program at all. Just a viewing tool. Photoshop is about it. There was a program called Livepicture. How ever I havn't seen it around for a long time.
Scott