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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2014-08-09, 5:27pm
Glass Junkie Glass Junkie is offline
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Default Will this work?

After trying several set-ups in my house, I've decided to take up my father-in-law's offer to set up my torch and kiln in his unused furniture manufacturing building. I'm trying to figure out if I have adequate ventilation for the hot head on Map-Pro (canisters for now, one day I hope to upgrade to bulk tanks).

He's giving me a large room - so large I can't even guess the size accurately. Maybe 30x30 feet? Could be a bit smaller. The room has two large exhaust fans opposite the door up near the ceiling, which is pretty high up. 20 feet at least. He also has several industrial sized fans that can be moved. I'm thinking I should take the movable fan and put it in front of me, pointing up at an angle at the ceiling exhaust. My hope is that it will suck the fumes away and up. I can keep the door to the room open to let in fresh air - the building itself is huge and he usually keeps the door to the outside open, so plenty of air coming in.

I know there won't be a lot of people with experience working like this, but I'm hoping someone out there could give me some advice!

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 2014-08-09, 9:43pm
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alb6094 alb6094 is offline
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Here is what I'm thinking from what I read here. You need to find some of the flexible HVAC duct. It's been awhile but I believe you can find it at Home Depot. Can you get a ladder or some access to the ceiling? You could hang one end of the flexible duct there and have the other end down by your torch, suspend it by wire from hooks in the ceiling?

I have no idea if that would be better. My concern with the fan method would be that it's not going to trap ALL the gas, you'll have bleed off to either side of the fan, does that make sense at all?

It sounds like a wonderful space, I'm sure you can make it work.

Now that's just off the top of my head and I know there are people much more knowledgeable than I am at ventilation, just a thought. Good luck!
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  #3  
Old 2014-08-10, 4:50pm
Glass Junkie Glass Junkie is offline
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Thank you, I'll talk to my FIL tomorrow. He's got so much stuff lying around that he might even have some duct-work that I can use!

I forgot to mention that these fans that are on stands are about 4 ft across, which is why I thought they would be sufficient, but some kind of duct attached to the exhaust fan would probably form a type of vacuum and really pull the fumes away.
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Old 2014-08-10, 7:19pm
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I really don't have any other advice but I am jealous of the space that your fil offered you, but I will add that I started with the hot head and mapp gas.......great for learning, but I believe that I was the culprit behind Menards raising the price, I cleaned them out regularly....sorry. I now use a minor bench burner with oxy concentrator....I guess it's your turn to cause a price increase....
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  #5  
Old 2014-08-11, 7:01am
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The fans on stands will do nothing but scatter the fumes about the room and contaminate whole space.... The idea of "ventilation" is to evacuate a certain area (your breathing space) and route in fresh air, that is why we use ducting to gather the contaminated air and send it outside where nature can dilute it....

Nature abhors a vacuum, so nature will cause a inrush of fresh air into space you have cleared using the ducting..... This is why it is imperative to have the fresh air come into room from behind you (in most cases) so the fresh air comes over your shoulders and around your head when it is clean and fresh.... This is done either by having your makeup air ducted to behind you or its source (open window) behind you....

Simple basics detailed here...... Much more written about ventilation on same site...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...php?f=22&t=150

Dale
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Last edited by Dale M.; 2014-08-11 at 7:03am.
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Old 2014-08-11, 2:00pm
Glass Junkie Glass Junkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo Ann View Post
I guess it's your turn to cause a price increase....
Yes, I think I might be the only one who every buys the stuff! I was going to Home Depot and a local hardware store, but I just found that Tractor Supply sells the canisters for $2 cheaper!! I'm going this week to clean them out.
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Old 2014-08-11, 2:16pm
Glass Junkie Glass Junkie is offline
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Thanks Dale, that makes sense. I was planning to sit with my back to the open door so that the exhaust system would pull air in from behind me. We're going to set up the duct this week.

My FIL is a bit more lax when it comes to personal safety than I am, so I will be showing him the information from this board and the forum you linked to.
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Old 2014-08-11, 2:20pm
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Why not buy a long bulk hose and bbq tank? In the long run it will be cheaper, less to get rid of and when you up grade you can pass along the hose to someone else new? I had a bunch of those little tanks and hated it. I got the hose and used that for several years before upgrading.
Just a thought......
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  #9  
Old 2014-08-12, 7:26am
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propane is a more likely to make soot marks on the glass then propoplean propoplean also burns a little hotter.

you may just be able to put a hood over your bench and connect it directly to the exhaust fan.
If it was a paint or finishing room then the Exhaust should be strong enough.
If it was a work room the exhaust may actually be part of a dust collection system and that would be a bad option, Dust can be very flammable and even explosive if air born.
It could also just be ventilation.
A walk though of the space and seeing what its hooked up to should let you know Whats going on.
An airflow meter and a calculator should let you figure out how much air is being pulled out of the space.
Dale or someone could walk you though the math on how much air flow you need for what your working with.
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Old 2014-08-13, 5:23pm
Glass Junkie Glass Junkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassymom View Post
Why not buy a long bulk hose and bbq tank? In the long run it will be cheaper, less to get rid of and when you up grade you can pass along the hose to someone else new? I had a bunch of those little tanks and hated it. I got the hose and used that for several years before upgrading.
Just a thought......
Thanks for the suggestion, it is something I had been considering. Eventually I want to get a bulk tank of brazing fuel (vs propane), but I wanted to get my work area set up first to see if that would be an option. The tanks do drive me crazy, so once I have a safe place to work I'll be heading to the local welder's supply!
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Old 2014-08-13, 5:44pm
Glass Junkie Glass Junkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losthelm View Post
propane is a more likely to make soot marks on the glass then propoplean propoplean also burns a little hotter.

you may just be able to put a hood over your bench and connect it directly to the exhaust fan.
If it was a paint or finishing room then the Exhaust should be strong enough.
If it was a work room the exhaust may actually be part of a dust collection system and that would be a bad option, Dust can be very flammable and even explosive if air born.
It could also just be ventilation.
A walk though of the space and seeing what its hooked up to should let you know Whats going on.
An airflow meter and a calculator should let you figure out how much air is being pulled out of the space.
Dale or someone could walk you though the math on how much air flow you need for what your working with.
Good things to think about, thanks!

He has a paint room and a sanding room, but he said that those rooms are so full of flammable material that they weren't even worth considering. After a second walk-through today I saw that one exhaust fan is actually in the ceiling, open to the outside (not for dust collection, to move air out of the room). That one is the more powerful fan so I'm thinking the best option is to attach the duct to that fan and bring it straight down with some type hood over the torch area. I can ask him what the cfm is for that fan, but I have the feeling that it is more than sufficient for my needs.

I'm wondering if I need to build an enclosure around the table or if the open end of the duct will be enough to pull the contaminated air away...
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Old 2014-08-17, 7:34am
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Oops! Just read your last post... you're right on top of my concerns about flammable materials. Enjoy your new space!

Last edited by GlassPuppy; 2014-08-17 at 7:38am. Reason: Think before replying!
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Old 2014-08-25, 1:35pm
2xMI 2xMI is offline
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Do a search for "Barley box" to read about and see pictures of a partially enclosed space/work bench for torching. That may give you some idea if you want to go that route.

Mimi
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  #14  
Old 2014-09-15, 12:42am
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This is coming in a little late, but I figure someone may see this and benefit even if you're all fixed up. I was told to light a stick of incense at my workstation, and if I could smell it, I needed better ventilation. I did, and have recently installed the system described here: http://www.andreaguarino.com/VENTILATION.html and it is AMAZING! I'd think that if you have an existing fan in the ceiling of sufficient power, you could find a way to seal up whatever length you need of the 6" flex tube to the fan inlet and run it down to sit right behind your torch like the one in that link, and that would be very good, especially to take out the vapors given off by the colorants in the glass. Those are worse for you than the products of combustion from your torch fuel.
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