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Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

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  #1  
Old 2010-02-01, 4:19pm
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Default Carlisle Mini CC and Creation Station

I am trying to figure out how these two can go together. I have googled and I can't really come up with an answer. I read that the creation station is fully adaptable to most torches so how the heck am I suppose to attach my torch?

thanks and here are two pics




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Old 2010-02-01, 5:18pm
De Anza Art Glass Club De Anza Art Glass Club is offline
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The curvy metal thing clips the burner base to the creation station.

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Old 2010-02-01, 7:07pm
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Thank you for the pic, I actually realized a little while ago that I had the bar upside down so it is all good now.

Another question:

When I purchased my new fuel at the welding shop , he told me I could use it for the new torch as well. So I got rid of my propane tank which was only two months old, STUPID.

As now I have been told that you do not use that type of fuel (similar to Mapp) with a dual torch. That I have to use propane. Is this true?

I was trying to do the right thing and not have propane tanks hanging around the house.
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Old 2010-02-01, 8:04pm
De Anza Art Glass Club De Anza Art Glass Club is offline
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Here's a thread: http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...php?f=21&t=167

Most of the thread is in agreement that propylene can be used, but the last post said that if propylene is used, the manufacturer will no longer honor the warranty.

There is also a reply on these forums that propylene is acceptable, but I can't find it. In that thread, the warranty issue was not addressed.
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Old 2010-02-01, 8:14pm
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So when you say propylene , this means all types of brazing (spelling) fuels?

Going to go read now, I looked for awhile today but I could not find anything.

You have been very helpful.

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Originally Posted by De Anza Art Glass Club View Post
Here's a thread: http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...php?f=21&t=167

Most of the thread is in agreement that propylene can be used, but the last post said that if propylene is used, the manufacturer will no longer honor the warranty.

There is also a reply on these forums that propylene is acceptable, but I can't find it. In that thread, the warranty issue was not addressed.
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Old 2010-02-01, 9:38pm
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Propylene is one of the names for the replacement for MAPP. Another name is MAP/Pro and it is in the small 1 lb. yellow bottles that many people use for Hot Heads.

It is not a generic name for all brazing fuels. See Dale M's article at the Art Glass Answers site for a comprehensive list.
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Old 2010-02-02, 8:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemsinbloom View Post
Thank you for the pic, I actually realized a little while ago that I had the bar upside down so it is all good now.

Another question:

When I purchased my new fuel at the welding shop , he told me I could use it for the new torch as well. So I got rid of my propane tank which was only two months old, STUPID.

As now I have been told that you do not use that type of fuel (similar to Mapp) with a dual torch. That I have to use propane. Is this true?

I was trying to do the right thing and not have propane tanks hanging around the house.
The combination of propane and oxygen generates enough heat in a fuel/oxygen torch that you so not need the extra heat+ cost of a more exotic fuel (propylene) ... The use of propylene is pretty much reserved for use on a hothead torch since it is a fuel/air torch and does not generate as much heat as a fuel oxygen torch.....

For almost all lamp work torches propane or natural gas generated enough heat for almost any glass work...

Also the propylene tank has the same dangers as a propane tank.... IF using propylene, the tank should be outside....

Dale
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  #8  
Old 2010-02-02, 8:13am
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But the reason why I ask is this. My propane is gone now and I have a new tank with the Flamal I purchased. I am told this is similiar to Mapp gas.

It would be great if I did not have to purchase another propane tank.


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Originally Posted by Dale M. View Post
The combination of propane and oxygen generates enough heat in a fuel/oxygen torch that you so not need the extra heat+ cost of a more exotic fuel (propylene) ... The use of propylene is pretty much reserved for use on a hothead torch since it is a fuel/air torch and does not generate as much heat as a fuel oxygen torch.....

For almost all lamp work torches propane or natural gas generated enough heat for almost any glass work...

Also the propylene tank has the same dangers as a propane tank.... IF using propylene, the tank should be outside....

Dale
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Old 2010-02-02, 11:22am
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It looks like you are are supplied by Air Liquide. It looks like they sell acetylene, MAPP, and propane in their Flamal line. However, I have also found another brochure that says Flamal is a propylene-based fuel.

Presumably, since you mentioned that the gas you were sold is like MAPP, we can exclude the possibility that you were sold acetylene. However, I would check, just in case.

I'd say that if you are not concerned about the warranty, you can use the Flamal safely. Then, when you go to get your tank refilled, you probably could exchange it for an equivalent tank filled with propane, since propane is the less expensive and more commonly available fuel. Otherwise, you probably could go back to the weld shop and exchange for a Air Liquide Flamal propane tank (assuming the Flamal brand still includes all the gases mentioned above).

I guess the best thing is to call the weld shop and see what options they can provide, and hopefully they will just exchange the tank. Tell them that they said you could use Flamal, but the manufacturer says that the burner is designed for propane and has specifically said that use of propylene will void the warranty.

Last edited by De Anza Art Glass Club; 2010-02-02 at 11:28am.
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  #10  
Old 2010-02-02, 11:42am
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Wow you have some great info here for me, thank you , thank you! I am giving them a call now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by De Anza Art Glass Club View Post
It looks like you are are supplied by Air Liquide. It looks like they sell acetylene, MAPP, and propane in their Flamal line. However, I have also found another brochure that says Flamal is a propylene-based fuel.

Presumably, since you mentioned that the gas you were sold is like MAPP, we can exclude the possibility that you were sold acetylene. However, I would check, just in case.

I'd say that if you are not concerned about the warranty, you can use the Flamal safely. Then, when you go to get your tank refilled, you probably could exchange it for an equivalent tank filled with propane, since propane is the less expensive and more commonly available fuel. Otherwise, you probably could go back to the weld shop and exchange for a Air Liquide Flamal propane tank (assuming the Flamal brand still includes all the gases mentioned above).

I guess the best thing is to call the weld shop and see what options they can provide, and hopefully they will just exchange the tank. Tell them that they said you could use Flamal, but the manufacturer says that the burner is designed for propane and has specifically said that use of propylene will void the warranty.
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  #11  
Old 2010-02-02, 12:43pm
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I had very bad luck with propelyene and a minor when I first started. It was extremely sooty. It could of been just me but if you first attempt starts that way go back to propane because it won't get better.

Bonny
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Hellcat, Two M-15s, propane and finally no tanked oxy.
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  #12  
Old 2010-02-02, 5:28pm
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Okay good to know.

I had a strange experience this morning. I went to reduce a bead on my hothead with this new fuel. So I covered up the intake holes on the hothead, waved the bead through the flame and the flame did look different from what I use to get with propane..........and the whole bead and part of the mandrel turned completely black! It was freaky! But then it burned off when I put the beads back into the flame. Mind you, the bead is uglier than sin.


What is up with that?


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Originally Posted by playingwithfirebeads View Post
I had very bad luck with propelyene and a minor when I first started. It was extremely sooty. It could of been just me but if you first attempt starts that way go back to propane because it won't get better.

Bonny
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  #13  
Old 2010-02-02, 6:40pm
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Oh! You got a new torch!!! Good for you. It looks like it's upside down though....

I agree with others here: Take the propylene back & go back to propane.
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Old 2010-02-02, 6:49pm
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Upside down? It adjustable so I like to have my torch pointing upwards.....or as much as possible. I don't get how you all torch with having to lean forwards so much.

Quote:
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Oh! You got a new torch!!! Good for you. It looks like it's upside down though....

I agree with others here: Take the propylene back & go back to propane.
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Old 2010-02-02, 7:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemsinbloom View Post
Upside down? It adjustable so I like to have my torch pointing upwards.....or as much as possible. I don't get how you all torch with having to lean forwards so much.
Mine it the other way around! But I don't have the torch top marver. I didn't get the DVD with it either....

But I happy for you with your new torch. Did you get the concentrator?
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Old 2010-02-02, 11:31pm
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We have the same torch? kewl!


Ummmmmmmm the concentrator has to wait........but I am working on a couple of sources for one. Do you have one? If so, what size? 5? 10? 15? I guess I should get a 15 if I can?

I do find the dvd helpful.......if you were closer I would let you borrow it.


Quote:
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Mine it the other way around! But I don't have the torch top marver. I didn't get the DVD with it either....

But I happy for you with your new torch. Did you get the concentrator?
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Old 2010-02-03, 12:17am
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I have one of these torches and yours does look up side down. The knobs should be on the top. Have a look at this photo.
http://www.artcoinc.com/mini_cc.jpg http://store.fastcommerce.com/GlowGl...1f9168e-p.html

Last edited by Carmen Isaacs; 2010-02-03 at 12:29am.
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  #18  
Old 2010-02-03, 1:11pm
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Oh wow, thank you lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs View Post
I have one of these torches and yours does look up side down. The knobs should be on the top. Have a look at this photo.
http://www.artcoinc.com/mini_cc.jpg http://store.fastcommerce.com/GlowGl...1f9168e-p.html
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Old 2010-02-03, 9:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs View Post
I have one of these torches and yours does look up side down. The knobs should be on the top. Have a look at this photo.
http://www.artcoinc.com/mini_cc.jpg http://store.fastcommerce.com/GlowGl...1f9168e-p.html
That's the way mine is too. But I think it could be because she has the torch top marver?
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Old 2010-02-03, 9:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemsinbloom View Post
We have the same torch? kewl!


Ummmmmmmm the concentrator has to wait........but I am working on a couple of sources for one. Do you have one? If so, what size? 5? 10? 15? I guess I should get a 15 if I can?

I do find the dvd helpful.......if you were closer I would let you borrow it.
No. I have tanked. Concentrators down here are really expensive & tanked it cheap. But they deliver & change out the old one.

Thanks for the offer! That's sweet. It would be nice to be near more lampworkers. Anyway, we won't be down here forever. So I don't get too sad about being so far. I do have visitors who bring me lampworking goodies every now & then.


Don't flip your torch over though! If it came like that it's probably because of the marver.

I'm sorry I brought it up!! LOL.

ETA: WAIT! That's not a marver on top... What is that brass thing on top?

Last edited by mini; 2010-02-03 at 10:02pm.
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Old 2010-02-03, 10:00pm
Carmen Isaacs Carmen Isaacs is offline
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I have a torch top marver on mine as well and it is not upside down like hers. The marver attachment needs to be put on correctly.
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Old 2010-02-03, 10:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmen Isaacs View Post
I have a torch top marver on mine as well and it is not upside down like hers. The marver attachment needs to be put on correctly.
I just edited my post. Looking at it again, it doesn't look like a marver... Do you know what that is?
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Old 2010-02-03, 10:08pm
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Okay everyone, I had taken the torch apart as I watched the dvd to learn about it. I did put it back on upside down lol

Too funny!
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Old 2010-02-03, 10:09pm
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I could always mail you the dvd in a bit so you could check it out and then you could mail it back. It was a gift so I will need it for a bit first but I would be fine in lending it to you later on.


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Originally Posted by mini View Post
No. I have tanked. Concentrators down here are really expensive & tanked it cheap. But they deliver & change out the old one.

Thanks for the offer! That's sweet. It would be nice to be near more lampworkers. Anyway, we won't be down here forever. So I don't get too sad about being so far. I do have visitors who bring me lampworking goodies every now & then.


Don't flip your torch over though! If it came like that it's probably because of the marver.

I'm sorry I brought it up!! LOL.

ETA: WAIT! That's not a marver on top... What is that brass thing on top?
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Old 2010-02-03, 10:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemsinbloom View Post
I could always mail you the dvd in a bit so you could check it out and then you could mail it back. It was a gift so I will need it for a bit first but I would be fine in lending it to you later on.
You are sweet! I'm going to email them & tell them I didn't get a DVD... Maybe they will take pity on me and send me one.

Have fun with your new torch! I know your beads are going to be wonderful! Just one word of warning: It's really really hot! You need to start out slowly & remember to wait for the beads cool longer than you think in the beginning before you encase or you will smug your beautiful flowers.
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Old 2010-02-03, 10:32pm
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I rented some torch time on Sunday and I had no problems but thanks for the heads up. Maybe it was just newbie good luck and next time I will suck. Mind you, I have not seen the beads yet, ha!

And I was serious about the dvd if you need it down the road.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mini View Post
You are sweet! I'm going to email them & tell them I didn't get a DVD... Maybe they will take pity on me and send me one.

Have fun with your new torch! I know your beads are going to be wonderful! Just one word of warning: It's really really hot! You need to start out slowly & remember to wait for the beads cool longer than you think in the beginning before you encase or you will smug your beautiful flowers.
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