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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions. |
2009-11-29, 2:42pm
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Marbles, dude, Marbles
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2007
Location: Coral Springs, Florida
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What's a 'disk flip' and when do you use it?
I occasionally hear people doing a 'disk flip'. What is it, why would I want to do it, and what does it accomplish?
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Gerald Kappel
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2009-11-29, 4:37pm
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newbie
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i'm not savvy with all the flipped out american glass vernacular, which often make something sound like a complicated tech heavy process or something, but it isn't really. If you are doing tube implosions, you're doing flips as a matter of course. So unless I'm completely wrong, its when you decorate a tube on the outside, melt that into the tube (so what you end up with is basically a tube with a flat bottom). You then punty up the flat end of the tube, take it off the tube, punty up the other side and take your original punty off (which is the "flip" as you're making an opposite working surface). Then you can implode it before you apply it or you can apply what you have to a piece without working it more ... refer to the simplified pic below. The colour starts out on the surface, but after flipping it's in the back of the piece you're making with a clear lens on the front.
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2009-11-29, 5:38pm
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Marbles, dude, Marbles
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2007
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Very interesting! I recently started working with tubing and I've gone through steps one to four above a few times but it never occurred to me to switch punties to make the front of the 'thing' into the back.... and then implode it again? Wow. I gotta play with that. Thank you very much.
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Gerald Kappel
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2009-11-29, 8:30pm
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Senior Member
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wickedglass very nice explaining
gmkcpa I do disk flips on a constant, my bread and butter pendants. And their fun!
two flip disk
wow huge in your face pictures, sorry.
a flip disk can be any design. the advantage I have found (and Im sticking to my guns on this) is you can take a stinger that some what failed in rod implosion (thinned out) and use them in a flip disk and have them come out brilliant and nice.
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Kobuki*Delta Elite*Mirage*Blast Shields*two DeVilbiss 5 LPM* tanks* foot pedal.
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2009-11-30, 7:54am
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Attack of the Snuggie!
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Join Date: Mar 31, 2009
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Awesome pendants!
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Dave
On a Delta Elite with compressed tank and generators
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts
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2009-11-30, 1:12pm
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I need more boro stuff
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Join Date: May 10, 2007
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Very pretty, Murf.
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Yunita
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2009-11-30, 2:05pm
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thank you very much. this technique is so easy a caveman could do it. i did a bunch of these using the cricket when it first came out, so a good option for those with smaller torches.
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Kobuki*Delta Elite*Mirage*Blast Shields*two DeVilbiss 5 LPM* tanks* foot pedal.
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2009-11-30, 2:53pm
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Um, I don't get it Got the first part, implode your design. Punty up to the back and take off the tube. Punty up to the front part (which is the part with the lens now).... and then what? Implode that back part? I tried it but didn't get much....
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2009-11-30, 3:30pm
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first I like to apologize to any neanderthals that took my comment to heart. sincerely sorry.
Rose , id explain my way of doing it, but not sure if some one here might want to add their two cents first and possibly explaining it a lot better than I can
i will say if you hoping to implode just the disk as it sits with the punt on the lens , then you will need a thick disk of clear(the lens) to draw down with the color. more volume means more depth
what is the design you have and what is the out come your hoping for?
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Kobuki*Delta Elite*Mirage*Blast Shields*two DeVilbiss 5 LPM* tanks* foot pedal.
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2009-11-30, 3:52pm
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I will wait for you to explain, if you decide to. I don't know the outcome to expect since I still don't know what it is doing. I know how to do an implosion with tubing, just don't quite get "this".
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2009-11-30, 4:00pm
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szglassy
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Join Date: Dec 20, 2007
Location: Palm Coast,Florida
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nice pendants Murf! So easy for a caveman? It looks like serious skills to me!
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2009-11-30, 4:01pm
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Yup.
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Join Date: Jun 18, 2005
Location: California coast
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Rose, I kind of do like Wickedglass does. I do one of two things: 1- at step two blow out a bubble with the design on the back half, punty up, tear off the clear, flip the disc using heat & gravity/marver (tuff, IMO) then back with color or frit and add bail to make a pendant. or... at step 3 back the design, rip off the tube, flip the punty, clean up the back and add a bail for a pendant. I think all of this is kind of challenging, personally.
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JC Herrell
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2009-11-30, 4:13pm
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Mmmmmm, thanks for explaining that JC, it's clear as mud. LOL
Darn, I was just looking to learn something new to try. I'll process it for awhile I guess.....
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2009-11-30, 5:01pm
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newbie
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what size tubing do you use? my standard size is 32 or 34 mm diameter and 2.3 wall thickness.
and yes, once I've flipped the disk, I implode the back of it.
Try what JC said and blow it into a bubble first before condensing it back on the tube and puntying up, it makes things a bit easier.
ugh ugh arrrrrr grrr ugh
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2009-11-30, 8:23pm
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Haha, 32 or 34 mm diameter??? Nope, I don't think so. This is outta my league. I'm on a Cricket. Thanks anyway
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2009-11-30, 8:32pm
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Ive never worried about tube size, my norm is 25mm I think, but I have used 9mm blow tube too.
start with a bubble
add design, my drawing shows some simple flowers with dots that will be leaves ( THE FLOWER PETAL CAN BE ANY SHAPE!)
reduce bubble from the tip back to the blow tube, take your time. the tube will be rotated parallel to the table till you implode
when the last dots(those that run the circumference) are encased in the disk I call it good.
you will notice on the drawings the dots that make a ring around the circumference. these i use as indexing(will explain below)
heat bubble closest to the blow tube or point and blow thin while pushing slightly up on the punt. this will push the side wall out ward. pop a hole and tear off tube
at this point you have a ragged disk on the puntie
either melt the raged edge carefully back as the lens or take cup shears and cut off this excess glass. i personally take a rod and peel this excess off almost down to the image on the edge of the disk.
there is the flip disk
for a pendant I take a 16mm rod and form a ripping hot gather all the while in my other hand i hold the disk on punt and let the face of it take the excess flame thats coming over the gather. what im doing is pretty much flash flaming the surface smooth. i need the disk hot for a good seal, but not hot enough to bend or damage the image
push gather on to disk, QUICKY knock off puntie. with a hot neutral flame heat the heck out of the joint while keeping the rod parallel to the bench. focus on the seal, dont worry about the image.
there maybe on your first few tries air bubbles that are formed along the edge of the two pieces. dont worry about them.
the seam of the now two joined pieces is very apparent. you could use that seam line as a backing line or do the following
the two joined pieces are still ripping hot, take to a marver pad and carefully push down centering the image. i slowly do this watching those index dots trying to get them perfectly centered with a ring of clear that extends just beyond this. the centering may take a few trys and all the while you will be trying to center the rod over the image as well. RELAX!
got it centered?? well in doing so the separation line that once was mid point is still mid point but the out edges now sit towards the back edge . like a contact lens. this takes away any distortion from a side view.
the bubbles that i told you not to worry about are still there but now will be in a different position, chances are they are now at the lower edge and are much easier to remove.
you may now implode. i rarely marver a lot like in rod implosion. maybe once or twice just spreading out the design and quickly letting gravity do the rest. Back with frit or not.
punt up to back, remove rod. make a nice lens pull in to pendant
Rose your almost there I know.
quick note:
the images of the leaves I drew above would have small dots in them for stamens.
as one reduces the bubble there is a chance whether you doing florals or sea reefs to have a bubble form in this area. the clear just has a hard time filling this area and one can wind up with a ghastly bubble that will look like a dicro chip or mirror, the worst type of bubble.
to minimize this, as you reduce the bubble hold it maybe 1-2mm above your marver pad and give a light puff. do this repeatedly til you know the dots have melted in and are encased correctly
hope some of this made sense????
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Kobuki*Delta Elite*Mirage*Blast Shields*two DeVilbiss 5 LPM* tanks* foot pedal.
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2009-11-30, 8:45pm
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so for those of you that haven't thrown a rope over a beam and hung them self, Ill say its a lot easy to do than read.
it was my reading on the forums that lead me to this or should i say my failure. dont print this out and expect it to happen. read it, try to understand the jest of if and fail. what i describe above is what i came up with out of failure. personally messing up is my best work.
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Kobuki*Delta Elite*Mirage*Blast Shields*two DeVilbiss 5 LPM* tanks* foot pedal.
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2009-11-30, 8:56pm
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put a bird on it
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Join Date: May 18, 2006
Location: Colorado
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wow, murf! thx for the great explanation! can't wait to try it
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elise
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2009-11-30, 9:07pm
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Im pretty good with knots, so if you choose to throw a rope over a beam after failing . PM me
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Kobuki*Delta Elite*Mirage*Blast Shields*two DeVilbiss 5 LPM* tanks* foot pedal.
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2009-11-30, 9:58pm
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Senior Member
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not to over load ones thoughts, no doubt there is enough on your plate
just remember this( with a gain of salt)
for sea reefs you will keep the tub parallel to the table till almost the end of making the disk, then it is elbow down to finish it. for those cool egg shapes and thorns. shallow disks seem to work best.
the adding of that 16mm rod that i do to form the lens could be a jelly fish implosion that you fuse over the disk. normally i have my jelly fishes floating across the reef on its side.
for floral and combs the tube is parallel to the table
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2009-12-01, 5:00am
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Serenity Now!
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Awesome info Wicked and Murf...now just to digest it all. Thanks!
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Val Lewis
Exclusive distributor for FYI Silver Metal Clay, and excited to be a distributor for CBS Dichroic EXTRACT
Check out what everyone has been talking about...
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2009-12-01, 5:54am
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Murf, I was able to follow that easily. (so I say) Really, I get it now and will start practicing. Thank you SO MUCH, on behalf of all of us!!!!
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2009-12-01, 6:51am
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Sounds reasonable to attempt. I hope I can remember next time I get a chance to try. I hope I can figure it out, because I don't have the guts to jump off a chair and I don't have a beam.
Greg
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Greg
A pessimist is an optimist with experience.
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2009-12-01, 10:08am
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Well, I did it! Don't think I kept it centered, didn't get a bubble out, but what the heck? That was fun! I then did another one but got lost, forgot where I was, went back and forth on what side to implode, but it was an experience. Now I just have to figure out how to stretch the kinks out of my arm.
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2009-12-01, 10:40am
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personally, i feel that doing a floral implosion on rod is far harder to do. at least with a good flower as a out come
Rose, to cool, if you get lost that is a good thing. you may come up with something new. way cool.
I have been doing this type of pendant now for over a year and a half. at at first I sat there and stressed over the bubble. to thin, to thick, has that bleb effect of glass at the end of the bubble. it just doesnt matter. ive had the entire bubble crack straight down the middle after laying down all my work. no matter, I saw it through and the out come was too cool. as i have laided down the needed scroll work I have the bubble wrinkle and distort, just about any thing you can image and the out come was always great.
a small torch and a bit of courage is all that is needed. if you want to be a better tennis player play with some one better than you. in glass its about going towards things that exceed ones ability.
like i said its my bread and butter work, time for me to practice what i preach and move on. i look forward to 2010 with open arms and hope to advance to a higher level.
send me in coach, I'm ready
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Kobuki*Delta Elite*Mirage*Blast Shields*two DeVilbiss 5 LPM* tanks* foot pedal.
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2009-12-01, 10:44am
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Senior Member
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Murf, can you just come over and show me? Or, send me a knot.
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Cynthia
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2009-12-01, 10:58am
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ManBearPig
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This technique is the same way I make my implosion marbles, so if any of you have my marble book, the second implosion marble demo is using this technique...
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2009-12-01, 10:59am
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no problem. just dont sit across from me at the market and sell my pendants.
on the other hand if you did then I wouldnt have to attend. I retract the first sentence.
you know I am a woodworker, for those who have a beam over head and cant reach it please contact me. I will make you a latter. though i take no responsibility in the making of the latter. so if you kill your self scaling it to place said rope, you do so at your own risk
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Kobuki*Delta Elite*Mirage*Blast Shields*two DeVilbiss 5 LPM* tanks* foot pedal.
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2009-12-01, 11:30pm
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Senior Member
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was loooking for something in the shop, didnt find it but
The Flow magzine
summer 2008
Marble issue
page 44
Sea floral marble
by Filip Vogelpohl
great pictures /prefect explanation of this technique
chad has a featured marble in the issue as well
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Kobuki*Delta Elite*Mirage*Blast Shields*two DeVilbiss 5 LPM* tanks* foot pedal.
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2009-12-02, 4:57am
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newbie
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Join Date: Feb 18, 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murf
you know I am a woodworker, for those who have a beam over head and cant reach it please contact me. I will make you a latter. though i take no responsibility in the making of the latter. so if you kill your self scaling it to place said rope, you do so at your own risk
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do you also make earliers, befores and footstools? I could use a good solid earlier ...
ok, so now I'm waiting for the beam to fall on my head for being norty
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