Bethlehem Bravo vs GTT Scorpion?

[Signguy]

Has anyone had a chance to really compare these two? I'm interested in getting a larger torch bigots hard to tell the pluses and minuses of each...

I'm also interested in how well either will run on one or two M15's?

But most of all, I'm curious about how the flame characteristics compare, and other differences between them.

Thanks for any input you have!

Erik

[Dragonharper]

I've never used a GTT, but I do know that there is a minimum flame setting or the torch will overheat. I do have a Bravo and I love it. I suppose it all depends on what you want to do. What ever you get get a foot pedal to go with it.

[LarryC]

Originally Posted by Dragonharper

I've never used a GTT, but I do know that there is a minimum flame setting or the torch will overheat. I do have a Bravo and I love it. I suppose it all depends on what you want to do. What ever you get get a foot pedal to go with it.

Not really, this is a myth. If both Oxygen valves are always at least slightly cracked open, they wont overheat. In fact the GTT triple mix design runs cooler than most. This is one of the advantages of the triple mix design. With the Lynx inner stage at full blast on my Mirage, the head of the torch is cool within a half inch or so of the face.

[Dragonharper]

Originally Posted by LarryC

Not really, this is a myth. If both Oxygen valves are always at least slightly cracked open, they wont overheat. In fact the GTT triple mix design runs cooler than most. This is one of the advantages of the triple mix design. With the Lynx inner stage at full blast on my Mirage, the head of the torch is cool within a half inch or so of the face.

That's good to know.

[shawnette]

Any comparisons, yet?

[Role]

Originally Posted by shawnette

Any comparisons, yet?

I've been mulling this over for a while.

All reports that I can find say the Bravo has the widest
range of flame types, from needle sharp to bushy, and
that the Scorpion has more problems with carbon build
up.

I'm ordering the Bravo in the next few days, and building
a foot pedal to go with it.

[Role]

The boss ordered the Bravo today.

Now, the wait begins !

[Angie09]

I don't see any torches on Ron's website....what am I missing?

[Dasi]

I worked a Barracuda for a few years before I set up my scorpion. I liked both torches. I think the bravo is similar and replaced the barracuda. I think you can't go wrong with either torch.
I like the scorpion better then my barracuda and I used to love it.
I still switch back and forth between the two for different techniques. I really like my scorpion for boro and the barracuda for soft silver glass... (reduces better) I use the scorpion if I am working soft without reduction. Both should work fine with 2 M-15's.

[Angie09]

Originally Posted by Dasi

I still switch back and forth between the two for different techniques. I really like my scorpion for boro and the barracuda for soft silver glass... (reduces better) I use the scorpion if I am working soft without reduction. Both should work fine with 2 M-15's.

Dasi....when you say the barracuda " reduces better" than the Scorpion, could you explain please. I'm really interested in what you see as the difference. Thanks.

[Role]

Originally Posted by Angie09

I don't see any torches on Ron's website....what am I missing?

Hi,

They are hidden under "Lampworking"

Lamp Working goodies at AGH

Enjoy !

[Role]

Originally Posted by Angie09

Dasi....when you say the barracuda " reduces better" than the Scorpion, could you explain please. I'm really interested in what you see as the difference. Thanks.

The Barracuda and the Bravo are really two different animals
and the Scorpion is an arachnid.

The Cuda is much hungrier for oxygen, it was not designed to
run on concentrators, it is an old design (maybe 50 years old)
and was designed during a time when tanked oxygen was all that
was available.

If you are running a Barracuda on concentrators it will reduce very
easily because it needs LOTS of oxygen for full combustion.

The Scorpion is designed with Concentrator use in mind so it uses
the available oxygen more efficiently, by far, than the Barracuda.

The Bravo is a newly designed replacement for the retired Barracuda
and it is also designed with Oxygen concentrator use in mind.

[Dasi]

I did not see anyone responding that owned both torches so I tried to help. I tried to tell the positives to both torches I owned. I had been told by friends the bravo was a lot like the barracuda but a little bit more O2 friendly.

The difference I found with the torches is GTT is a more thrusting, penetrating, and hotter flame. The Cuda is a gentler, flame. It is neutral fLAME but can be made into a nicer gentler but strong, reducing flame. My GTT reducing flame is just either thrusting or weak. I would have to really show you.
Maybe with the bravo design this has changed?

Originally Posted by Role

The Barracuda and the Bravo are really two different animals
and the Scorpion is an arachnid.

The Cuda is much hungrier for oxygen, it was not designed to
run on concentrators, it is an old design (maybe 50 years old)
and was designed during a time when tanked oxygen was all that
was available.

If you are running a Barracuda on concentrators it will reduce very
easily because it needs LOTS of oxygen for full combustion.

The Scorpion is designed with Concentrator use in mind so it uses
the available oxygen more efficiently, by far, than the Barracuda.

The Bravo is a newly designed replacement for the retired Barracuda
and it is also designed with Oxygen concentrator use in mind.

[Signguy]

All I can say is that I totally love my Bravo! It is a great torch, and a great buy for the $$$. It gives me 100% of tanked performance off three M-15's (so much so that I sold my tanks when I moved as I really don't need them at all anymore).

And although the "softer" flame takes a bit of getting used to, it actually heats really effectivly but it seems to do so by surrounding the flame all around the glass instead of driving the flame into the glass as a GTT does. Not sure there is much actual performance difference, just two different approaches.

One thing I really like is I can go from a massive heat it up fast flame to a tiny pinpoint flame and still maintain any flame chemistry I like. In my experience this was harder to do on the GTT torches which do not seem to be as happy with a tiny flame.

The other big thing I like is the robustness of the torch construction. The Bravo is a massive, heavy solid metal piece which seems pretty indestructible. Whereas the GTT is much lighter and more fragile.

Not slamming GTT at all, they are great torches. But for me, the Bravo gives me more for less dollars, and is more bulletproof. But your milage may vary

If you want more details you can search for some of my other threads about the bravo - they have pix and detailed information based on my experiences to date.

Erik

[Role]

We have the Bravo on order, Bethlehem says the vendor did
not place an order but I'll keep my fingers crossed that it gets
ordered sometime in the near future.

I guess now we wait and see if Bethlehem is like some other
torch manufacturers, promise it in two weeks and then maybe
see it in 4 months...

[Role]

Since we have a short lampworking year I cancelled the back
order and purchased from a different vendor who had it in stock.

Delivered today. (pouring rain or I'd be out using it right now)

Bethlehem gave this torch a good name.

Bravo !

Coming from a midrange/minor combo the Bravo is an entirely
different beast.

Like Signguy said, it is built like a tank.

The Alpha center flame is amazing for stringer work, it can be
turned down to a super small size.

The valves are almost too easy to turn, they should stiffen
up a bit as they break in over time but it might take a while.

There is one thing I am uncertain about, the synthetic handles
on the tilt adjustment.

I am concerned what the radiant heat will do to them but that
is all I can find that gives me any doubt.

Going to take a couple weeks to get used to, but so far it
looks like a choice we will be happy with for a long time.

[Dragonharper]

Originally Posted by Role

... The valves are almost too easy to turn, they should stiffen
up a bit as they break in over time but it might take a while...

I keep a 1/2" wrench on my bench to slightly tighten the packing nut on my Bravo. It doesn't take much, maybe 1/16th of a turn, to go from loose to just right. The more I use my bravo the more I like it. About the only thing I think I might better would be if they added another ring and made a triple fire version.

[Role]

Originally Posted by Dragonharper

I keep a 1/2" wrench on my bench to slightly tighten the packing nut on my Bravo. It doesn't take much, maybe 1/16th of a turn, to go from loose to just right. The more I use my bravo the more I like it. About the only thing I think I might better would be if they added another ring and made a triple fire version.

Thank you for that advice, they have stiffened up a small
amount just from use but a little tighter would be preferable.

It is going to take some getting used to, the Bravo is significantly
different in it's flame characteristics from the Midrange I am
comfortable with.

Smaller diameter flame with less radiant heat, but it is hotter and
builds the heatbase faster.

TBH, it really needs more than my two M-15s, but for now it will
be fine until I add another/sell upgrade/finally figure out a way
to get tanked to this location...

[Dragonharper]

I went from a Nortel Rocket, and the Bravo is a different beast altogether, but I love it! Especially since I can use a foot pedal and really setup a working flame and a heat boost. I really like how much less radiant heat there is, and how the torch drives the heat into the glass.

[Baywinger]

I realize this is a very old thread but someone else may want this answer as well, Nikki may jump in here as well as the scorpion is/was hers however I have used it some myself.

The Scorpion is a 6 port center fire surrounded by an 8 port outer fire there is no second oxy knob on this torch like many other GTT torches.
we ran this both inner and outer fire on two m20's feed into an 11 gal tank rather well.
this is a great torch for bead making and small boro work, the flames are rather narrow so if you plan on doing much hollow or tubing work we found this torch to be limited in work size which is why we moved to the bravo.
however like all GTT torches the flame does have plenty of heat and penetration for the work it is made for

The Bravo is a 6 port center fire surrounded by a 12 port outer fire, the flame characteristics of the bravo torch allow much larger work and still allow fine work, I make soft glass insects in the center fire. I have also worked pretty decent size hollow tubing work in Boro on the bravo which is much more difficult to do on the Scorpion.

The scorpion is a great small two stage torch and if you want a bead torch that has an outer fire capability and can do small hollow work this torch is great.

I think Bravo was designed for a much broader application of work from small beads and soft glass sculpture to pretty large boro work. recently at Glass stock folks made up to three inch boro marbles on the bravos.
this was a fairly old comparison I think today it would be closer to compare the Sidewinder (which is the larger cousin to the Scorpion) and the Bravo

[Oberone]

Originally Posted by Role

I've been mulling this over for a while.

All reports that I can find say the Bravo has the widest
range of flame types, from needle sharp to bushy, and
that the Scorpion has more problems with carbon build
up.

I'm ordering the Bravo in the next few days, and building
a foot pedal to go with it.

Again, I realize this is an old post. I have a Bravo in the mail, wondering if you ended up making your own foot pedal?

Thanks.

[lunesse]

Bravos now more $$$ than a lynx center scorpion!