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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2011-05-11, 1:58pm
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misspiggy misspiggy is offline
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Default Different torch options??

I am a semi-newbie working on good ole HH but lately I am wondering if I should upgrade to something else.

I am hearing a lot of people talk about starting with a Minor and also Cricket?
I understand that Cricket runs better with low oxy. than a Minor but other than this I have no idea what the differences are? Prices, Flame, etc...

Can you please educated me ??
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  #2  
Old 2011-05-11, 11:07pm
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I stuck my thread that asks a similar question into the "torch questions" - and you have seen my Bathroom thread today, I know. I'm pretty much in the same boat.
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  #3  
Old 2011-05-12, 1:59am
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If at all possible, try to have a go on both to see which you prefer. Lots of people swear by Crickets, but I like the feel of a Minor better. But generally speaking, I don't think you'll go wrong with either. They'll both take a bit of getting used to if you haven't used one before.
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  #4  
Old 2011-05-12, 3:47am
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Prices are pretty similar. The main difference in the flame is that the Cricket's is more 'focused' while the Minor's is a bit 'bushier' (more of an ambient heat zone). Oh, and the Cricket is sexier, by far.

What oxygen source will you be using? As you said, the Cricket is more O2-consumption friendly.
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  #5  
Old 2011-05-12, 10:01pm
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I stepped up from a fake hothead to a Minor and oxy con and am thrilled!! You can usually find the Minor and hoses on here (in the LE Garage sale forum) for about $75-150, the Cricket's a bit more. No matter what STEP UP!!

You will love it after the short learning curve!!
Smiles, Sheri
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  #6  
Old 2011-05-12, 10:13pm
kissmyglassjackie kissmyglassjackie is offline
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Go mini cc, still runs well on a concentrator, only a little bit more $ for the torch, something you wont outgrow as fast. Crickets are nice and hot but the flame is pretty small. Mini cc is bushier and so will feel closer to the hot head. But since younwill have so much more firepower there will be that learning curve. Never heard anyone complain about that though.
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  #7  
Old 2011-05-12, 10:20pm
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The Cricket is the hottest of all the entry level torches no matter what the oxygen supply is. I had a Cricket and a Bobcat and taught on Minors and Mini CCs - if you want a torch that is oxy efficient and works well on a 5 lpm oxycon, the Cricket is it.

The flame on a Bobcat is as narrow as a Cricket and I made large beads using a Bobcat before upgrading to a Barracuda.

What I don't like about a Mini CC is that its body gets HOT including the knobs! Moreover, it doesn't dial down to a pin-point flame. Having said that, however, everyone I know who has a Mini CC loves it and can't use any other torch for its flame characteristic is completely different from other torches.

Best advise - try them out before you make the decision.
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  #8  
Old 2011-05-12, 10:39pm
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I will disagree with Haley, sorry, some of use mini CC users can use other torches just fine. Used a Mega Minor today and Minors when every I go to a class. Have used a Lynx in the past as well.

I will agree with Haley, if you can, try some before buying. They all take practice to get the flame just like you want it, but once you upgrade, you will be happy, I promise.
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  #9  
Old 2011-05-13, 12:29am
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If you are going to be using a single 5lpm concentrator, the Cricket or Minor is good. If you are using two 5lpm, then this would be better to run the Mini CC or the knobs get too hot.

I have tried the Cricket and the Bobcat and I like the Bobcat better, of course. It will run okay with a single 5lpm unit, but does better with two or a generator.

The difference between the Mini CC and the Bobcat:

Mini CC - bushier flame and surrounding radiant heat. You want this one for soft glass sculpturals. I made a 30mm rose bead with 15 petals that were on a hotplate and placed on the base bead one by one. No shattering or shocking, and I was truly amazed. It's okay for boro, but the Bobcat is much better for that.

Bobcat - sharper more focused flame, very little radiant heat. Therefore not good for sculpturals unless you want to rapidly flash them back and forth to keep them from shocking. This torch is better suited for small medium beads and marbles, and with enough oxy, it's great for boro. Hotter than the Mini CC for boro.
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  #10  
Old 2011-05-13, 5:25am
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I pretty much agree with what everyone else has said. I started with a Minor then went to a Mega Minor then tried a Mini CC and then a Cricket. I'm now on a Scorpion.

Price-wise I think you can get a Minor and Mini CC for cheaper than a Cricket. Cricket and Mega Minor about the same price these days. They're all pretty close in range though.

Flamewise from narrowest to bushiest? Cricket -> Minor/Mega Minor -> Mini CC

Heatwise from coolest to hottest? Minor -> Mega Minor -> Mini CC -> Cricket

All these torches will work on household NG and a 5LPM concentrator (that was my setup and I never had any problems) except as someone mentioned above, really the Mini CC needs more O2 to keep it cool.

You're really OK to try any of them. I'd say if you try one and want to try another you can always sell your torch as they do pretty well resale-wise. Best thing, if you have a studio near you or know people who have the other torches is to try them out

You can't really go wrong though!

-Yee

ps. opinions expressed are purely my own and based on my personal observations and use of the torches discussed
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  #11  
Old 2011-05-13, 8:13am
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First look at your fuel and oxygen. If you're using tanks (including BarBQ) for your fuel, then you can dial in the best possible fuel for the torch. Household natural gas is usually at 1/4 PSI, which is very low fuel. If you're using oxycons, look at your LPM. If you're using a re-purposed medical concentrator, it's probably 5LPM which is absolute minimum. The EX-15 & M-15 that are frequently mentioned, I remember off the top of my head as being at 8LPM. The Regalia is 10LPM. Working conditions (heat, humidity, hose run) can all degrade the oxycon performance.

If you're providing 5LPM of oxygen, the Cricket is specifically designed for this situation. The Minor also is pretty oxygen efficient based on testing Kimberly of Pyronamix did a few years ago. I haven't priced torches recently, but a few years ago when purchased new, they were in the same ballpark pricewise. Both torches also perform well with low fuel. While I was on low fuel and low oxygen, I switched from the MiniCC to the Cricket and had much better results with boro, silver glass, etc on the Cricket.

Now that I've upped both my oxygen and my fuel, I prefer the MiniCC. Just increasing the O2 from 5LPM to 10LPM for the MiniCC significantly decreased my glassworking frustration. Suddenly Raku and silver glass worked. The Bobcat is pretty much a MiniCC competitor that functions better with BarBQ tank and with 7 LPM of oxygen. Last time I looked at prices, the MiniCC and Bobcat were a smidge above the Minor and Cricket. However, I got my MiniCC on sale for less than the Minor price at the time I purchased.

The other torch that is built to perform on low fuel and oxygen is the Betta. The Betta however is expensive. I paid close to $400 for mine and it does not perform better than the Cricket or MiniCC.

The Betta and Cricket were not available when I purchased my first torch. I debated for weeks between the Minor (which I was using in my beginner lampworking class), the Bobcat and the MiniCC agonizing over every little detail. But the reality is the differences between these entry level torches are very minimal. Ultimately you'll love whatever you buy and you'll probably buy other torches over the years.
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  #12  
Old 2011-05-13, 8:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara View Post
I will disagree with Hayley, sorry, some of use mini CC users can use other torches just fine. Used a Mega Minor today and Minors when every I go to a class. Have used a Lynx in the past as well.
Guess I should have had the disclaimer as Yee's (see below)! Or instead of "everyone I know," it should have been "everyone I have seen torching who have only Mini CCs" In any case, my comment is based on my personal observations. My students who use Mini CCs do seem to have a more difficult time adjusting to another flame characteristics for the Mini's is so different. . .

For me, it's more difficult when I have to teach on a Minor or a Mini CC for the knobs for oxy and propane are completely opposite from the Bobcat and Barracuda I am used to. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeepers View Post
opinions expressed are purely my own and based on my personal observations and use of the torches discussed
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  #13  
Old 2011-05-13, 1:14pm
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I appreciate all of your thoughts. You are all so generous to share your experiences with me.
I still have no idea what I will get. Maybe whatever used equipment I could find..

To be continued......
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  #14  
Old 2011-05-13, 2:31pm
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I'll jump in here so not to start a new thread. Does anyone use a National 8M?

I'm new to all this, currently working with a HH that I have had for about 2 weeks and had one class that I used a Minor. Used the Minor in class before the HH, so the HH was doomed from the beginning!

Anyway the local stained glass shop had a used National 8M for a good price so I bought it. I got a scratch and dent ex-15 this week and the plumber is coming to run the Natural Gas drop on Monday.
I haven't been able to find much info on the National so maybe here someone would have some opinions?

Hoping I will be happy with it but if not I will be following this thread for more info.

Thanks.
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