Boro, Lynx, which Concentrator?

[calenk]

hey yall
i want to buy a concentrator to use on my lynx for boro work i want it to beable to work boro as big as my lynx can do, and depending on the price hopefully more than my lynx needs, so i can still use it in the future on a bigger torch (gtt of course) ...i know it may not be as pure as tanked but i want it to be as close as possible and the flow and pressure specs to be sufficient.....BTW what are the oxy consumption rates of the lynx with the knobs fully open, anyone know.?

[kbinkster]

Originally Posted by calenk

BTW what are the oxy consumption rates of the lynx with the knobs fully open, anyone know.?

At 10 psi or 100 psi? For a normal top-end flame, the Lynx consumes 14 cfu/hr oxygen and 4 cfu/hr gas. At this setting, it is capable of making a 2" boro marble.

I run the centerfire of my Phantom (the Lynx) on an Integra10. It puts out 10 LPM at 9 psi. I would say that it runs it at about 90%, and I live at a high altitude. The makers of the Integra10, Sequal, have come out with a new unit called the Regalia. It gives the same performance as the Integra10, but has a digital read-out, which makes it nice to "set it and forget it."

So, as far as concentrators go, the Integra10 or Regalia would be my recommendation.

[glass_beads]

Originally Posted by kbinkster

So, as far as concentrators go, the Integra10 or Regalia would be my recommendation.

Where can I find this -- who sells it?

[kbinkster]

Paulette at suncoast beads sells them.

[KT-OldSchoolGlass]

Other options would be the Unlimited Oxygen 2010 "Tornado" producing 20 PSI and 10 LPM, or the Unlimited Oxygen 1508 that produces 15 PSI and 8 LPM.

At 14 cu. ft/hr the Lynx would use 6.6 LPM.

[kbinkster]

Originally Posted by Generations Glass

At 14 cu. ft/hr the Lynx would use 6.6 LPM.

That is why pressure is important. 10 LPM would be enough flow, but the 9 psi that I get from my Integra10 falls just short of reaching that very very top end. When I have a big flame going and want to add thrust to it with the blue valve, I can get the thrust, but it only gives me so much - just shy of the max. It needs a little more pressure to force the oxygen through the tiny injector tubes when I have the green valve open so far; there isn't enough pressure available under those circumstances to max it out completely. But just barely not enough. I believe the Lynx maxes out at about 12 psi. So, 9 psi is pretty close.

[KT-OldSchoolGlass]

I agree with Kimberly.

Different torches will work better at different PSIs as well as LPMs.

That is the reason I suggested the Unlimited Oxygen units. They have higher pressure output.

[ksglass]

I saw a Lynx "running" on a Tornado at the Gathering....it was not able to run wide open/at full capacity. Call Willy at GTT and he can give you the specs on the Lynx. But I know what I saw with my own eyes and the Tornado was not enough.

[ksglass]

As far as the Integra 10 goes, I ran a GTT Cheetah on it and made two 25mm boro beads in less than 15 minutes, it rocked! It would be my first choice hands down.

Also, I don't sell or get a percentage of any sales for either of these items.

I can't stress enough the importance of seeing the exact torch and the exact oxy con you want run together before your eyes. Don't make a $1000 mistake like I did!

I went in thinking I wanted one brand of torch and oxy con and left knowing I wanted something totally different.

[wnbresn]

As far as getting the best price for an Integra 10 I would say this. Check around on the internet for the various medical supply companies. I got my Integra from Vitality Medical at www.Vitalitymedical.com. I got the unit without the O2 alarm (Don't need it) for 1192.00 and that included 2nd day shipping. It was a brand new unit right from the company and it runs great. We only use it on a Mini CC but a friend of ours who only does boro uses an Intergra bough from the same place on her larger torch and has no problems.

[kbinkster]

Originally Posted by ksglass

I saw a Lynx "running" on a Tornado at the Gathering....it was not able to run wide open/at full capacity. Call Willy at GTT and he can give you the specs on the Lynx. But I know what I saw with my own eyes and the Tornado was not enough.

I was hesitant to address this before, because I like Jack and Paul. They are really nice guys. But, I cannot just not say something about this because I like them. That wouldn't be right.

Elizabeth is correct. That Tornado could not power the Lynx to full capacity. It got maybe 90% out of it. The Tornado was supposed to deliver 20 psi, and from what was shown at Open Torch, it couldn't.

A Lynx maxes out somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 psi. At 15 psi, you can distort the flame. At 20 psi, you should be able to really distort the flame. There were eight torches on the GTT table running on a manifold connected to two tanks by very long hoses. Those in charge of Open Torch said that the pressure was set around 10 psi. It could have been a tiny bit higher. That set-up ran the Lynxes perfectly. They were able to reach top end and it was possible to distort the flame using the blue valve with the red and green maxed out.

When the Tornado was hooked up, it had a short line that went directly to the torch, by-passing the manifold - nothing in the way. It did a nice job overall running the Lynx, but when it came to reaching that very top end, it just could not get there. There was not enough pressure to feed the tiny injectors (blue valve - would only require about 12 psi to max out - to get the most out of the flame without distorting it) when the red and green were maxed out (again, getting the most out of the flame without distortion). The tornado could not deliver enough pressure to distort the flame with the blue valve. At 20 psi, the pressure this unit is supposed to deliver, it should have been very easy to distort the flame using the blue valve.

When Paul was running the Lynx, and could not get any more oxygen out of the blue valve at a certain point, he asked Willy if there was a limiter in the torch. Willy explained to him that there was no limiter and that the reason there was no more oxygen coming out at a certain point was because there wasn't enough pressure available to push it out. He went over to another Lynx that was connected to the manifold and showed him (Paul) how he could get more out of it.

This was out in the open for everyone to see. The performance just did not support the numbers that were claimed.

Again, I hate to even post this, but it would have been wrong of me to be quiet about it when I knew that Elizabeth was right and someone could be disappointed with such a big purchase.

I'm all for finding an economical alternative for tanked oxygen. I don't have any vested interest in any concentrator/generator company out there.

I must admit that I was suspicious of Jack and Paul when I first met them because of what went on with the three units they sent down for GTT to test and how the claims did not match the test results. But, after talking to them (a lot), I really got the sense that they were good guys. I think that Jack and Paul are really trying to make a difference in our industry. They continue to work at it, but they're just not quite there, IMHO. Their claims just don't jive with the actual performance I've seen, so far.

Originally Posted by ksglass

I can't stress enough the importance of seeing the exact torch and the exact oxy con you want run together before your eyes.

I couldn't agree more. You might decide that an Unlimited Oxygen machine is just fine for you, or you might not. But at any rate, you will know exactly what you are getting and what to expect.

[Mr. Smiley]

Originally Posted by kbinkster

At 10 psi or 100 psi? For a normal top-end flame, the Lynx consumes 14 cfu/hr oxygen and 4 cfu/hr gas. At this setting, it is capable of making a 2" boro marble.

I run the centerfire of my Phantom (the Lynx) on an Integra10. It puts out 10 LPM at 9 psi. I would say that it runs it at about 90%, and I live at a high altitude. The makers of the Integra10, Sequal, have come out with a new unit called the Regalia. It gives the same performance as the Integra10, but has a digital read-out, which makes it nice to "set it and forget it."

So, as far as concentrators go, the Integra10 or Regalia would be my recommendation.

Are you saying the Lynx only needs 6.6 LPM to run at 100%?

[kbinkster]

At the right psi, it does. Of course, I'm talking about the maximum usable flame on a typical Lynx.

On tanked oxygen, the Lynx reaches its maximum usable flame at 12-13 psi. So, at 15 psi, it's already topped out. So, even running more than 15 psi, you won't be getting anything more out of the torch. I believe the flow rates were taken at 20 psi, but they should be the same at 15 psi, because the torch isn't eating more at 20 than at 15 (since it's already maxed out at that point). It's eating right about 7 liters of oxygen per minute for the maximum usable flame.

So, an M-15 should be more than adequate to power a Lynx to its full capacity. It should be able to push the torch past its peak into the range of an unusable flame. If it can't, then there is something off with the machine and it may not be putting out a true 8 LPM at 15 psi.

[castaway]

I don't know why you are mucking about with all these machines, a Lynx and the OG15 are a perfect match I used that combination for years until upgrading to a Cheetah and OG20 also a great combo, The OG15 is almost too much for a Lynx( I live at sea level)
Cheers, Bernard

[oldschooltofu]

im running huricanes on my centerfires (lynx)

i can run one lynx full on 95% + connected to one huricane

two lynxes can be connected to one huricane and do boro ok, but you will pull oxygen from the other user when you crank the green. if you are using smaller flames and know how to adjust the blue and turn down the green, you can both work a the same time at about 90%

I connected three lynxes to two huricanes and i can get 95-100% on all three at the same time. works great.

just my .02

i work at 2000ft above sea level

[Mr. Smiley]

OR.... these figures are not accurate and a Lynx requires more than 6.6 LPM... we shall see...

Originally Posted by kbinkster

At the right psi, it does. Of course, I'm talking about the maximum usable flame on a typical Lynx.

On tanked oxygen, the Lynx reaches its maximum usable flame at 12-13 psi. So, at 15 psi, it's already topped out. So, even running more than 15 psi, you won't be getting anything more out of the torch. I believe the flow rates were taken at 20 psi, but they should be the same at 15 psi, because the torch isn't eating more at 20 than at 15 (since it's already maxed out at that point). It's eating right about 7 liters of oxygen per minute for the maximum usable flame.

So, an M-15 should be more than adequate to power a Lynx to its full capacity. It should be able to push the torch past its peak into the range of an unusable flame. If it can't, then there is something off with the machine and it may not be putting out a true 8 LPM at 15 psi.

[kbinkster]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

OR.... these figures are not accurate and a Lynx requires more than 6.6 LPM... we shall see...

I asked Wally to re-test, just to be sure.

The standard Lynx can put out a flame with 1 1/2" long candles and a stable should before getting distorted. At that setting, with that candle length before distortion, the Lynx consumes 14-15 CFH (6.61 - 7.08 LPM). Now, every torch is different and every now and then, you can find one that you can drag more top end out of. Wally found a Lynx that could get 2" candles and a stable shoulder before distortion. At that flame setting, the Lynx used 16 CFH (7.55 LPM).

For the high end usable soft glass flame with candles just under 1/2" long, the Lynx used only 9 CFH (4.25 LPM).

Wally tested the Lynx at 13 psi. He increased the pressure to 15 psi and saw no difference. He went up even higher (20 psi), and still saw no difference. The Lynx tops out at 13 psi.

So, 8 LPM at 15 psi is more than the Lynx needs. If a machine that claims to put out 8 LPM at 15 psi cannot fully power a Lynx, then there is something wrong with the machine and it should be checked out because it is not putting out 8 LPM at 15 psi.