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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2006-12-17, 3:18pm
Alan Cross's Avatar
Alan Cross Alan Cross is offline
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Default Gold and silver foils...

I have gotten mixed information on this subject is it safe to work with these foils without a resporator or not I have heard so many people say its not safe but I have been in two boro shops with 4 or 5 glass blowers and they are always using siliver and gold for fuming and never ware a mask so what is the low down before I kill myself!!
Alan
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  #2  
Old 2006-12-17, 3:34pm
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Kalera Kalera is offline
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If your ventilation is truly adequate, you should be fine without a respirator. However, gold is very toxic and can make you pretty sick, so if you're working with it a lot, it would be a good idea to wear a respirator to protect you from the occasional cross-draft that can cause stray fumes.

Silver is vastly less toxic and requires a large exposure to cause illness. Fortunately for us, silversmiths have been the guinea pigs for centuries so argyria is well-documented. If you have adequate ventilation, working with silver without a respirator is safe.
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  #3  
Old 2006-12-17, 4:06pm
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Alan Cross Alan Cross is offline
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Thanks so much Kalera its kind of the answer I was hoping for....I don't like masks lol
Alan
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  #4  
Old 2006-12-17, 7:38pm
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But the truly knowing that your ventilation is "adequate" is the biggest question.
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  #5  
Old 2006-12-20, 8:10am
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Agreed, Mike.

Silver and Copper Foils, used on the surface of the bead, generally are heavy enough that any residue, even without proper ventilation, will fall on the table just behind the torch, according to the John Winter class I took. So, he told us that unless your hanging out with you face THERE, you are probably okay.

Gold, on the other hand, fumes more easily. FiG and I were just talking about fuming techniques and he said to me "You probably want to hold your breath while you're doing this." Seems to me that if you have a mask, you'll just be safer. I don't like them either.
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Old 2006-12-20, 11:35am
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I always wear a mask. Better safe than sorry.
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  #7  
Old 2006-12-20, 3:38pm
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What an interesting question Alan. We are talking about 'fuming' correct?
Lets' consider this... these 'fumes' are submicron particles... almost single atoms.

Silver 'fumes' at 2212 degrees C, producing 5,607,476,635,514,018 particles per microgram.

Gold 'fumes' at 3080 degrees C, producing 3,045,685,279,187,817 particles per microgram.

(Note: The particle count is an approximated count for a 1/8" x 1/8" square piece of foil - approximately one microgram -- if I did my moles, mass weight, and molecules calculations correctly )

Checkout the particle count. These are tiny particles. These are submicron particles... referred to by the EPA as 'fine particles' or Particulate Matter less than 2.5 microns (PM2.5). Submicron particle distribution in 'room air' is influenced exclusively by thermal currents. That is, they float on the air... and flow with the air current... they don't drop like a rock -- ever (unless it's raining). Once 'fumed', they have slightly more mass than a few oxygen molecules. If something gets in their way they will 'stick' to it, e.g., bead, finger, wall, etc.. (Goldfinger?)

Also note the relatively small difference in particle count between both materials -- in the quadrillions (at least I think that big number is quads). IMHO I don't think it really matters, particle-wise, which material is being fumed. Neither does it to the EPA... a fine particle, is a fine particle, is a fine particle.

Now... before you think I'm an alarmist... note that the allowable submicron level of particles is nominally 35 micrograms per cubic meter of breathable air, per day. http://epa.gov/pm/standards.html So, theoretically you could fume up about 35 of the little squares referenced above every day. But remember the rest of the world uses up most of that 35 with other types of combustion processes. Also note, that until 2006 that number was 50 per day... but enough 'normal' air pollution was finally brought under control that the number could be lowered to 35. (Yes... it does sound like shooting an arrow, and then drawing a bullseye around it). Basically... there's not a lot of 'room' left in the air we breath inside a studio, to add more nanoparticles to it.

How about toxicity-wise? Submicron particles, aka nanoparticles, bypass all of our biological respiratory protection filtering mechanisms... which means they go directly to the alveolar region of the lungs, via the mouth and nasal passage; and possibly via the nasal olfactory organ to the cerebellum. Tests with fish show nanoparticles migrated to the cerebellum (the part responsible for sensory perception and motor output). However, no behavioral changes were noted in the fish, which is good!, but these were fish after all... how much behavior change would we see?

Although nano sized particles have been a concern of the EPA since the 1970's, and the EPA reviewed and revised standards to be even more strict in 2006, and several studies have be started in the last few years... the first international conference (CDC/NIOSH) on nanomaterial toxicity did not occur until about 2 weeks ago. That kind of lets us know just how little we know about this topic... toxicity-wise. Basically... we know that if it's a fine particle, then it's not... it's a bad particle... sometimes. Which ones are the bad ones, and how bad each one is, is still pretty much a guess -- so we assume they all are bad. On the flip side, studies are ongoing that use gold nanos as 'medicine delivery systems' to target specific disease causing organisms. So maybe golds' good. Maybe.

So what should we do? Like many things, it's a personal decision. You won't drop dead or develop emphysema tomorrow morning from fuming today (the CDC is pretty quick to catch onto those bad actors ). Particle buildup in the body depends on exposure... frequency and concentration... and the body does have a tendency to elminate some 'bad things'... over time (sometimes years). So, IMHO, MIT's suggestion for their labs is worth seriously considering: "Working safely with nanomaterials involves following standard procedures that would be followed for any particulate material with known or uncertain toxicity (emphasis added): preventing inhalation, dermal, and ingestion exposure." http://web.mit.edu/ENVIRONMENT/ehs/t...omaterial.html

How about respirators (aka the particle filter 'mask')? That is what you asked about . The N100 mask most folks use is designed and expected to reduce exposure to 1/10 what it would be without a mask. WHAT? Only 90% filtering? Yes, the mask material will trap 99.97 % of the nanoparticles that hit the 'filter' material... but does nothing to stop those particles that make it around the face seal. Thus, the 'paper and elastic bands' air purifying half-face mask reduces exposure... but certainly does not eliminate it. That's why NIOSH considers them to be AFP10 respirators (i.e., 10% bypass - 90% minimum protection). http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/resp...e/apf/apf.html

The suggested answer... IMO, the only real answer... Adequate Local Exhaust Ventilation.

Me

p.s. Oh yes... re: the boro shops... youth is invincible!... I was invincible once too... about century ago -- actually it was a century ago.
p.s.s For those who have read this far... you might now be thinking... hmmmm... when I melt glass, don't I also 'fume' glass molecules... like say boron oxide? The short answer is... Yes. Ditto 'adequate ventilation'.
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Last edited by bhhco; 2006-12-20 at 4:16pm.
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  #8  
Old 2006-12-20, 5:28pm
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MikeAurelius MikeAurelius is offline
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Me: absolutely correct. HOWEVER (there always is a however...) you've not taken into account the plasma stream of the torch flame. The plasma stream is going to fly those particles away from the user "in most cases".

But, if you don't have adequate local exhaust ventilation, those particles are going to "bounce" off the back of the hood or wall or what ever is behind your torch and come flying right back at your face.
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