4-stud Phantom w/ Hurricane?

shawnette · #1 2009-03-03, 12:06pm

Does anyone here know if a Hurricane wil run just the outer ring of a Phantom? (Not both because I know it's not enough. Just the outer ring alone.) If so, how well?

TIA!!

Trey Cornette · #2 2009-03-03, 2:53pm

I have run my Phantom off of 2- M-20's which is about the same thing, maybe a little higher pressure. It ran pretty good. I have Both a Barracuda and a phantom right now. Personally I am leaning towards the Barracuda as my favorite. It is designed to run on lower pressures(10-20psi) than the Phantom(35psi) and seems to do better on the generators. Also it uses less O2 than the Phantom. I know people don't want to hear it but I run them side by side and can see a distinct difference. Brent's close to you. Why don't you see if you can go check out his set up. I know he is running a Hurricane and has m-20's as well.

Trey Cornette · #3 2009-03-03, 3:10pm

Here is a link to a post where I show the Phantom on 2 M-20's

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=112876

oxydoc · #4 2009-03-03, 4:16pm

Hey Trey, Brent called me yesterday with your idea with the extra compressor. I would like you to email me the pic of the Gast. I want to compare it with what I have. jack

shawnette · #5 2009-03-03, 6:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trey Cornette

I have run my Phantom off of 2- M-20's which is about the same thing, maybe a little higher pressure. It ran pretty good. I have Both a Barracuda and a phantom right now. Personally I am leaning towards the Barracuda as my favorite. It is designed to run on lower pressures(10-20psi) than the Phantom(35psi) and seems to do better on the generators. Also it uses less O2 than the Phantom. I know people don't want to hear it but I run them side by side and can see a distinct difference. Brent's close to you. Why don't you see if you can go check out his set up. I know he is running a Hurricane and has m-20's as well.

Were you running just the outer fire? Or the whole thing? I'm wondering if I can run just the outer ring at a decent rate. (I can run the Lynx part on my concentrators. I already have the Hurricane and concentrators, so the only new investment would be the torch. Not interested in a Barracuda. Been there, done that.)

ruca · #6 2009-03-03, 6:43pm

watching this thread, wondering the same thing about the hurricane & the outerfire of a 4 stud.

Trey Cornette · #7 2009-03-03, 7:24pm

That's photos of the M-20's running the whole torch.
I am not sure how good for the torch it will be to run long term on 1/2 the psi that is recommended.
That would be a question for the GTT guys.
I am now running the phantom at 35 psi.

shawnette · #8 2009-03-03, 7:28pm

Excellent! Thanks!

rg9403 · #9 2009-03-03, 11:53pm

Run the outer on tanked and the inner on your hurricane. Maybe use the other oxy-con's for another torch.

shawnette · #10 2009-03-04, 7:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rg9403

Run the outer on tanked and the inner on your hurricane. Maybe use the other oxy-con's for another torch.

My whole point is to avoid tanks. I have enough oxycons to run a studio, so that's not an issue.

kbinkster · #11 2009-03-04, 9:41am

I've been working on a holding tank/compressor project, too.

With a holding tank/compressor set-up, you could probably use the concentrators you already have, Shawnette.

kbinkster · #12 2009-03-04, 10:31am

I'm not commenting on anyone's preference of torches, but is my experience that the Phantom is capable of a larger flame on 20 LPM than the Barracuda.

I ran several torches on concentrators and took photographs and measurements of the flames. This is what I found when I ran a Phantom and a Barrcuda on two 10 LPM concentrators (both putting out about 8 psi static pressure - keep in mind that static pressure is different than working pressure).

GTT Phantom (centerfire and outerfire) on a Regalia set at 10 LPM and Integra10 set at 8 LPM (it would not take more than 8 LPM from the Integra10) for a total of no more than 18 LPM
candle length: 0.625"
shoulder width: 1.850", 1.350" with blue valve
flame length: 22", 25" with blue valve thrust

Barracuda (centerfire and outerfire) on Regalia set at 10 LPM and the Integra10 set at 10 LPM (it would have taken more LPMs, but I did not want to overflow the concentrator) for a total of no more than 20 LPM
candle length: 0.575"
shoulder width: 1.500"
flame length: 17"

Basically, the Phantom was able to get a larger flame on less oxygen than the Barracuda (18 LPM to get a 1.85" wide flame with .625" candles on a Phantom vs. 20 LPM to get a 1.5" wide flame with .575" candles on a Barracuda). This is consistent with the oxygen consumption testing I have had done on the Phantom and Bethlehem's published consumption rates of the Barracuda. The Phantom is a more efficient torch and it is much more adjustable.

I was able to get greater heat density on the Phantom than on the Barracuda when needed. The less blue valve you employ on the Phantom, the wider you can make your flame. Adjusting between the green valve and the blue valve allows you to create just the right settings for any type of glass.

Where my set-up fell short was in the lack of pressure needed to get past some of the restrictions in the Phantom. It takes more push to get oxygen through the tiny injector jets than through the main oxygen ports and that is why I could not pull more than 8 LPM out of my Integra10. That's what kept me from getting more out of the torch. I feel that if I could boost the working pressure just a little bit, I would see an improvement.

kbinkster · #13 2009-03-04, 11:58am

I just re-read your posts, Shawnette, and see that you already have the Hurricane. The outerfire of the Phantom has just one more jet than the Cheetah. Do you still have your Cheetah? If it can power the Cheetah to x%, then, it should be able to power the outerfire (only) of the Phantom to about x%.

My pictures and measurements are running the entire torch with the inner and outer oxygens Yed together on the two concentrators Yed together (no holding tank) on 8 psi static pressure. I think that if there was a way to run your Hurricane with your other concentrators together and run both the inner and outer fires off of the combined source, you might get better performance than if you were running the inner and outerfires from seperate sources. This is because if you are not running the centerfire full blast when you kick on your outerfire, the oxygen that would be going to feed that centerfire could be diverted to contribute to feeding the outerfire.

shawnette · #14 2009-03-04, 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbinkster

I just re-read your posts, Shawnette, and see that you already have the Hurricane. The outerfire of the Phantom has just one more jet than the Cheetah. Do you still have your Cheetah? If it can power the Cheetah to x%, then, it should be able to power the outerfire (only) of the Phantom to about x%.

My pictures and measurements are running the entire torch with the inner and outer oxygens Yed together on the two concentrators Yed together (no holding tank) on 8 psi static pressure. I think that if there was a way to run your Hurricane with your other concentrators together and run both the inner and outer fires off of the combined source, you might get better performance than if you were running the inner and outerfires from seperate sources. This is because if you are not running the centerfire full blast when you kick on your outerfire, the oxygen that would be going to feed that centerfire could be diverted to contribute to feeding the outerfire.

No. I traded it for my Lynx +$ and bought a Barracuda. Then I sold the Barracuda to get a Mirage, but I don't think that's gonna happen so I'll settle for a Phantom.

I should be fine with my present equipment, then. Thanks for the info!!

rg9403 · #15 2009-03-04, 1:44pm

the facts are there and very clear....it all comes down to one question...What are you going to use the torch for? Are you going to be pulling massive tubes....making headie pipes...giant mibs from hell...or just beads????

shawnette · #16 2009-03-04, 1:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rg9403

the facts are there and very clear....it all comes down to one question...What are you going to use the torch for? Are you going to be pulling massive tubes....making headie pipes...giant mibs from hell...or just beads????

I don't make many beads and boro doesn't float my boat so I only use it when I have to. I do soft glass sculptural work, so I'm good to go if what Kimberly says is true (I believe her).

Trey Cornette · #17 2009-03-04, 2:39pm

For soft glass I absolutely prefer the Barracuda over the Phantom.
If we weren't 1000 miles away now I would say come on over and play.
Its really nice to have them both side by side and be able to enjoy the benefits of both.
I am actually considering selling my Phantom if I can find a good deal on a Quad Tiger Shark.

shawnette · #18 2009-03-04, 3:00pm

I've actually worked with both and for the way I work, I prefer the Phantom. I had a Barracuda for a while and it just didn't do it for me. Not that I think it's a bad torch, because it's a great torch. I just found that I like the way the glass flows on the GTT a little better. (I've never worked on a Mirage. I just want one cuz I like big things. Let me know when you're ready to part with that Phantom.)

Hels · #19 2009-03-07, 8:23am

Come over one day Shawnette, and you can see my 4 stud phantom on a M15 (inner) and Integra 10 (outer). The Integra10 is the same as a Regalia and I believe about the same as the Hurricane. It's not maxed, but it's not too bad

.

ruca · #20 2009-03-07, 9:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hels

Come over one day Shawnette, and you can see my 4 stud phantom on a M15 (inner) and Integra 10 (outer). The Integra10 is the same as a Regalia and I believe about the same as the Hurricane. It's not maxed, but it's not too bad

.

hurricane = 18-20 psi & 15 lpm
regallia = 7-9 psi & 10 lpm

i'm sure this a good set up for you but there's a definete difference between the hurricane & the regalia. i have not used either machine so i can't say one is better than the other but the hurricane is rated to put out a much high psi than the regalia or integra 10.

rg9403 · #21 2009-03-07, 2:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hels

Come over one day Shawnette, and you can see my 4 stud phantom on a M15 (inner) and Integra 10 (outer). The Integra10 is the same as a Regalia and I believe about the same as the Hurricane. It's not maxed, but it's not too bad

.

That sucks

hk · #22 2012-05-01, 6:35am

Don't be cheap with oxy I like to run my lynx center fire at 55 psi and I rage