Question about making even spacers

[DreamMuse]

Ok, I've been resisting asking this quite obviously noobie question *sighs* but I gotta.

I hate making spacers, or any donut shaped beads, for that matter. it's soooooo frikken hard to make them even! One side is always fatter than the other. (By "one side", I don't mean the left or right side if you're holding the mandrel and torching, but if you point the mandrel towards you can look head on, one side of the bead that way, so the issue is that too much glass hits the mandrel on one side, and not enough glass hits it on the opposite side)

I can usually fix it by adding more glass to the skinny side. But then take so long that way!

So, what usually causes it? I asked the woman who owns the studio, but she just said something about how it was a handmade bead and don't be a perfectionist, only I would ever notice... blah blah blah.

Well, I can't in good concience sell them when they're lopsided like that, and besides, they look even wonkier when you add beadcaps, so I want them perfect!

So, here are my guesses - maybe I'm spinning the mandrel too slow?? (One girl I torch with spins hers really fast!)

I spin back and forth, rather than spinning only in one direction, because it's easier for me. But could that do it?

Maybe after my initial gather, I'm adding the glass unevenly. Would that do it?

A combination??? *chuckles*

Argh! how frustrating! This is why I make bicones LOL

[Bobby]

Quote........"""but if you point the mandrel towards you can look head on."""


Just a thought

When you point the mandrel towards you it gives the glass just the time it needs to settle under the mandrel. Always keep the glass spinning and look at the top edge only to keep it round. The footprint is also very important. Even if you have to start your footprint with a stringer it is worth the round bead which will be for a lifetime.


Bobby

[SuzyQ]

Practice is what got me over it. I learned the footprint thing but still managed to get lopsided round beads. Then I started a ritual of making one rods worth of spacers at the beginning of every torch session. I found it a great way to warm up and after a while I got good at wraping evenly. I then moved on to two on a mandrel. OK, so that set me back a bit, lol. I still do it. It just helps me get into the flow of working with glass and helps me free my mind to just making beads. The first one almost always gets a cool water bath but I feel as if it is breaking down my brick wall to let the creativity flow.

[DreamMuse]

Thanks Kimberly for the Jim Smirch article *Smiles* Actually, I have that printed off and refer to it quite often as a reminder. It did help me a lot, but am still having this problem. But thanks for making me feel better that it's a common problem *chuckles*

And Bobby, thanks for the thought, but I don't look at the mandrel head on while the glass is still hot. I just described it that way so that it was clear I wasn't having the issue where the right side of the bead is lopsided because my mandrel wasn't parallel to the table.

However, starting the footprint with a stringer is a great thought! I might try that. *smiles*

And yes, SuzyQ, I might need more practice. For months, I just made barrel beads and other shapes because it was easier. Making a couple spacers at the beginning of every torch session is a great idea *smiles*

I actually took a large order of donut beads specifically to force myself to practice. It was a promotion for a creative writing site that I belong to - everyone who subscribed got a couple beads. I ended up with a 36 bead order!! (And those were the beads that I was devestated because they devitrified in the kiln LOL I finally etched them.)

I'm so in awe of everyone who can do five or six spacers on one mandrel. I really wish I could do that! I have no idea how people manage to do that without them ending up wonky.

[Jude Rose]

I just appreciate that you are not settling for the BS your instructor spewed to you. Yes. Oneought to strive for excellence. Otherwise it's not craft, is it?

And yes, beaders can be capable of making perfectly round beads. Just like good potters make centered pots and good woodworkers make symmetrical-er-wood. So I guess I'm mostly applauding your tenacity. You are on the right track!

I usually use the Jim S technique and there really is this intense moment when the entire bead is molten and wanting to drip down onto the work surface.

I pull my bead out of the flame and turn turn turn, allowing gravity to create a centrifical force and surface tension that results in a round perfect bead. That is simply physics in action.
Does it work everytime? Hellno.

When it doesn't work and it's wonky, instead of adding more glass, one can apply heat to the fat side and slowly turn and melt it into the thin. But always remember to take it out of the flame when things get too hot. Or else all control is lost.

[Jude Rose]

I would like to add that my response was assuming that you are winding a disk of glass around the mandrel like Jim teaches. He creatyes the foot, then he winds a few more times around that same foot. It helps to make it a perfect disc, but it's not absolutley necessary. The trick, the tension, and the excitement happen when one begins to melt that disc in. There comes this point of time when it's all molten and you really have to steadily turn your mandrel, allowing gravity to be your partner.

Jim is so appreciated for the disc technique because when you do it properly, you literally have the laws of physics on your side.

[Jude Rose]

Soory for the typos. I am so tired of fixing my poor typing today, LOL

[beadstillmyheart]

Originally Posted by Jude Rose

Soory for the typos. I am so tired of fixing my poor typing today, LOL

Oh, let me help...

centrifugal
creates
absolutely
sorry (see above, that was too cute)

hee hee. I couldn't resist.

It's 2:30 a.m and I can't sleep so I am helping the Spell Check Police.

[DreamMuse]

LMAO @ Kendra!! Glad to see that I have a fellow Spelling/Grammer helper *grins* My friends often tell me to put away the red pen. Of course, I make a ton of mistakes myself... LOL

Thanks for the advice Jude *smiles* I'm so in awe of your Chrysalis beads.

Yes, I do wind the glass around in the Smirch technique, but my wraps never look like that perfect ribbon. I keep trying though!

I have tried to flow the glass to the thinner side, but by that point, the footprint is usually lopsided too, so it's no use *S* I have to add more glass to the edges of the thinner side of the bead, which fills out the side as well as evens out the footprint.

However, I might not be removing the bead from the flame soon enough. I'll try to remove it a teeny bit sooner, turn it in only one direction, then if it's still wonky, try your flow technique and see if that helps. *smiles*

Thanks for all the advice, guys *big hugs*

[Jude Rose]

Originally Posted by beadstillmyheart

Oh, let me help...

centrifugal
creates
absolutely
sorry (see above, that was too cute)

hee hee. I couldn't resist.

It's 2:30 a.m and I can't sleep so I am helping the Spell Check Police.

Gee thanks, smartass.

[bolimasa]

Boy, I really suffer from the same problem. Not that mine are terribly lopsided, but I rarely think they are perfect either. I really notice it when I make multiple beads on a mandrel... when I turn the mandrel they remind me of the drive shaft of an engine; little cogs going up and down; each bead having its own high point. It truly makes me crazy. I am convinced that the real problem lies in the foot print. Where the end of the first wrap hit the begining one the bead is always a smidge wider. I think that the surface tension that makes the bead round wants to make the bead round wants to make it a little bigger where the footprint is wider, thus one side of the bead is bigger. I think the scmircich tiny footprint method helps this, but in my case at least it doesn't totally cure it. On the other hand, I always wonder how perfect everyone elses beads are. I never get a chance to do the microscope level inspection on thiers I do on all of mine!

[DreamMuse]

Originally Posted by bolimasa

I really notice it when I make multiple beads on a mandrel... when I turn the mandrel they remind me of the drive shaft of an engine; little cogs going up and down; each bead having its own high point. It truly makes me crazy.

I totally sympathise with your whole post, but that one statement made me laugh *chuckles* I sooooooo know what you mean - I've had that happen too!!! And the "add a little glass" method when that happens is very tricky!!

I try to get that footprint as even as possible, and you're right, sometimes it has one spot that's a teeny bit thicker, though I always try to get it even. Maybe that's the whole beginning of my problem - it looks so insignificant, but couple that with perhaps not spinning it fast enough...

[Sanveann]

I think the key is to never touch a stationary mandrel with the glass. If your mandrel isn't moving, you will end up with a bigger blob on the part where you first touched the glass down. Once I started doing that, my beads have been MUCH more even!

Also, don't be afraid to marver your beads just a TEENY bit and re-melt them into a round shape.

[Rhapsody Fire Beads]

I just put the end of the heated rod right on the mandrel, NO GATHER, and get an even foot print by pressing pretty firmly. I make 7 spacers on each mandrel and they are pretty much the same size that way. I'll post a photo of some I make today if I can remember to LOL!!!! Memory-o-pause ya know.

~ Suzy ~

[Heidi von Frozenfyre]

I make 4 - 6 spacers on each mandrel.

You said that you roll the mandrel back and forth and not all the way around. I bet you that is part of the problem. I'd start practicing at keeping the mandrel spinning.

One thing that I've done is made a little divit with my dremel on the side of my smallest graphite marver. The mandrel will spin in this little hole. You can see if you are holding the mandrel horizontal, which helps alot.

[Rhapsody Fire Beads]

I did remember to photo these, but when I remembered I had already cleaned off the bead release to etch them. This is how far apart I make them on a mandrel, and these were all made on the same one. No pre gathered glass, just press the tips of the heated glass on and wind in a circle. Then I keep them all warm and reheat the oldest ones before I melt the new ones round. Important: Give them all a good warming before you put them in the kiln!!! Hope this can help you!
~Suzy~

[DreamMuse]

Wow! Those spacers look great!! I'd really love to get that many on one mandrel. It would be soooo much easier than one at a time.

Thanks for all the advice everyone *S* I'll keep trying

[DawnT]

Originally Posted by Sanveann

I think the key is to never touch a stationary mandrel with the glass. If your mandrel isn't moving, you will end up with a bigger blob on the part where you first touched the glass down. Once I started doing that, my beads have been MUCH more even.

I agree with this. I have this problem frequently and it is a matter of not getting your inital touch of glass to mandrel too large.When I do this I usually use some pressure when I finish the footprint to spread the rest out. Hope that makes sense....

[Lisi]

Ack...I can only do one at a time on a mandrel! Never really tried more than two, and I really don't like beads popping in my face!

But as for the round bead thing, every time someone posts this question I feel guilty because I believe I could teach anyone (I mean, ANYONE) how to make a perfectly centered bead. Problem is, that it's much easier to be taught in person than describing it in a tutorial. If I had a chance to go to the Gathering, I would have been more than happy to demonstrate!

One of these days hopefully I will be able to make a beginner's video showing all my little quirks. Some of them would surprise you, lol! Because one of the ways I make the round beads is that I "glop and slop" the glass on the mandrel, and will proceed from there to get it evenly centered. I'm serious!

[lbjvg]

Originally Posted by StefaniBeads

I "glop and slop" the glass on the mandrel, and will proceed from there to get it evenly centered. I'm serious!

I can see the merit in that approach - after all I usually heat the bead until it flows to get it evened out anyway.

How big of a glop do you start with - enough for a whole spacer at once?

- Jim