Propane leak

kitkat · #1 2011-04-09, 9:43am

I started to torch last night...turned everything on - sat down and lit my torch and was in the process of making my tester bead for the night and within a couple minutes I could smell propane very strongly. I did the soap and water test on all of my hose and the fitting around my torch and couldn't find anything....no bubbles and no smell. I then checked my regulator and there was a strong odor of propane coming from my regulator. Yes...it was tightly screwed on.

I have had it for three years...do they wear out? Could it be an easy fix? I have no clue what I am looking at let alone how to fix. Or...do I need to buy another regulator?

Can someone enlighten me on this...I don't want to guess and be wrong.

Kat
Pur-Sonalities Glass Art

squid · #2 2011-04-09, 9:47am

They do wear out, but three years seems fast. Do you leave it set every time you shut down or do you back it off each time?

BAGGEDCHEVYS · #3 2011-04-09, 10:09am

Did you spray the tank fittings and regulator down? Do you rxchange propane tanks or have yours filled every time? The seat inside the tank valve and also the seat where the regulator connects can someimes get damaged and if you traded your tank out for one that's already full this may be the case. Even if you left your regulator set and didn't back it off after 3 years it shouldn't be leaking. I would spray the regulator and tank valve down. And find the leak then go from there. If it is your regulator you can have it rebuilt and the welding shop might have a loaner for you.

kitkat · #4 2011-04-09, 10:22am

I have my propane tank outside, I attached a metal plate to the inside wall and have a fitting with a valve next to my work station where I have my regulator so I can adjust my propane level there. I have never backed it down after working. I always leave the regulator open to 5 and the turn my valve on and off. Does that make sense? Could the pressure from the valve being opened and closed have caused damage to my regulator?

When you say spray down my fittings and regulator...do you mean soap and water? I did that with a paint brush. Should I redo it by spraying them?

By the way, thanks so much for helping me with this. I live alone and there are no local lampworkers in the area that can help me.

Kat

squid · #5 2011-04-09, 10:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitkat

I have my propane tank outside, I attached a metal plate to the inside wall and have a fitting with a valve next to my work station where I have my regulator so I can adjust my propane level there. I have never backed it down after working. I always leave the regulator open to 5 and the turn my valve on and off. Does that make sense? Could the pressure from the valve being opened and closed have caused damage to my regulator?

When you say spray down my fittings and regulator...do you mean soap and water? I did that with a paint brush. Should I redo it by spraying them?

By the way, thanks so much for helping me with this. I live alone and there are no local lampworkers in the area that can help me.

Kat

The leaving it set is probably what has worn it out so fast. The sudden pressure increase can wear out the diaphragm fast.

kitkat · #6 2011-04-09, 11:09am

Dang...so...when I get done torching each night - after shutting off the inside valve...turn the regulator all the way to zero? In your all's opinion...less expensive to buy new or have the one I have fixed? This blows. But, I would rather find out now with a slow smelly leak than the unthinkable. ;*( Thanks for your suggestions...

Kat
Purr-Sonalities Glass Art

RSimmons · #7 2011-04-09, 11:23am

Your regulator really should be outside so that the gas coming into the house isn't over 10 PSI.

Robert

kitkat · #8 2011-04-09, 11:33am

So...do you all just go outside every hour or so and check your pressure? I know with my regulator - I have to check it periodically to make sure it is still set at 5. Do you have another valve on the inside wall of the studio (I have mine in a shed) to turn on and off or is everything outside period?

Kat
Purr-Sonalities Glass Art

kitkat · #9 2011-04-09, 11:34am

Doesn't the elements and weather corrode the regulator by leaving it outside 24/7?

Kat
Purr-Sonalities Glass Art

Dale M. · #10 2011-04-09, 11:39am

If you have a quality regulator, you should be able to "set once and forget it" for a session.... Regulators by definition should not change value no matter how long its on (per session)...

Regulator adjustment should also be "backed off" at end of each session ...

And yes propane pressure of more than 10 PSI should not come through wall into studio area...

Dale

squid · #11 2011-04-09, 11:41am

Yeah, I never have to check mine - I set it at 7 (to eliminate any fluctuation you sometimes gets below 5 psi) and it doesn't change.

kitkat · #12 2011-04-09, 11:46am

Thanks for all the info. I will fill in the hole in the wall, buy new regulator and put outside and move on. I purchased a good regulator from ABR less than 4 years ago...in use for about 3 so I would also have expected it to last...and I will start setting it to 7 instead of 5. Would you set your oxygen a little higher to compensate for the propane?

Kat
Purr-Sonalities Glass Art

squid · #13 2011-04-09, 11:48am

You adjust the propane at the torch, so just because it's set higher doesn't mean you're putting more through the torch. No need to adjust the oxy.

Eileen · #14 2011-04-09, 12:04pm

I'm still working on a fancier way to protect from rain, etc. but for now I stick a bucket on there. Looks not so great, but it works.

kitkat · #15 2011-04-09, 12:33pm

Now I'm starting to question just how long my regulator has not been up to snuff. I have always regulated at the torch but for over a year now - at 5 psi - it will fluctuate and I have to keep "re-regulating". I never seem to have any problem with my regulator that I had on my oxygen tanks when I used them. I now have a Oxy 10.

So...I just looked at the prices of a propane reg. and they vary anywhere from $79 to above $130. Does anyone have a specific supplier that they recommend - quality and price? I have to bite the bullet and get one now...I cannot wait.

Eileen - I have a garbage can over my tank outside - so I'm hoping that will be enough cover for my reg. when I move it outside.

Kat
Purr-Sonalities Glass Art

squid · #16 2011-04-09, 12:35pm

Mine is uncovered completely.

BAGGEDCHEVYS · #17 2011-04-09, 1:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitkat

Now I'm starting to question just how long my regulator has not been up to snuff. I have always regulated at the torch but for over a year now - at 5 psi - it will fluctuate and I have to keep "re-regulating". I never seem to have any problem with my regulator that I had on my oxygen tanks when
I used them. I now have a Oxy 10.

So...I just looked at the prices of a propane reg. and they vary anywhere from $79 to above $130. Does anyone have a specific supplier that they recommend - quality and price? I have to bite the bullet and get one now...I cannot wait.

Eileen - I have a garbage can over my tank outside - so I'm hoping that will be enough cover for my reg. when I move it outside.

Kat
Purr-Sonalities Glass Art

Sounds more like your oxy 10 is having more of an issue fluctuating than your propane if everything was fine with tanked o2. On my moms torch with a single oxy con on the flame will fluctuate as well and its just the machine not being to keep up with the volume. Have the valve checked and find the leak first before you assume its just the regulator. I use dish washing soap and water in a spray bottle and spray every fitting down in my shop atleast once a month. If the regulator is still in good shape and test out well you can place it on your tank and get a inline regulator to keep near the bench for final adjustment.

As far as the backing off the regulator every night I'm on the fence on that one. My regulators have been set for years and never backed off without an issue. I have spoken with techs at smith, victor, gen tech, BOC gases, california tool and welding and several other people and. Five out of six have told me there is no need to back it off. The diaphram much like a solinoid valve will plain wear out corrode and fail no matter what you do. Having worked in many welding shops auto fab and restoration shop never have I worked in a shop that we backed off the regulators. Glass blowing and spcifically this board is the first time I have run accross this.

Once again find the leak first and go from there before you start throwing money at it. And for what its work I just bought and had reconditioned two sets of NICE victor dual stage regs for under 75 each.

Alaska · #18 2011-04-09, 2:07pm

You can look at the regulators made for welding. An acetylene regulator will fit the standard propane tank. Two commonly found welding supply shops are Air Liquide and Air Gas. Another good source, but of unknown quality, is Craigs's List.

kitkat · #19 2011-04-09, 2:28pm

Thanks for the advice on the reg. - I will check all of my connections when I get home - especially my flashbacks before I go and make a purchase. Alaska - I have an Air Gas place local and I know I have seen regulators in there for alot less than $130.

You know - none of this ever happens when you are just making things for yourself. Let a holiday come up or a special order - and everything goes kapluie!

Kat
Purr-Sonalities Glass Art

kitkat · #20 2011-04-10, 9:41am

Update: Without a doubt the noxious odor is coming from the flashback or the regulator...not any of my connections or my hoses but I cannot pinpoint just where - I have sprayed everything down and cannot find it to save me. ARGH. I am going to take my regulator to the local welding shop and see if they can find if there is a fitting that is not sealed correctly.

Kat
Purr-Sonalities Glass Art

BAGGEDCHEVYS · #21 2011-04-10, 10:46am

You might ask them for a loaner to take home. Maybe I missed it but do you trade your propane tanks out or have your tank refilled. I have gotten a few o2 tanks in the past that had damaged seats and the tank and the valve itself.

kitkat · #22 2011-04-10, 11:58am

No...I have two tanks that I take back and forth and have refilled. I am going to ask if they have a loaner that way I can make sure that that is where my problem lays and also so I can at least get my orders done on time...then worry about fixing vs. ordering. Thank you for your help in this prob.!

Kat
Purr-Sonalities Glass Art

BAGGEDCHEVYS · #23 2011-04-10, 12:43pm

If need be I have one I can loan you till you get it figgured out.

kitkat · #24 2011-04-11, 1:49pm

Thank you so much for the offer!!!! That is so nice. I am off tomorrow and I am going to see what the welding shop says. Are you ready for this...I think (I THINK) it is my flasback. When I took that part off...there is no odor at all. When I put it back on - it was horrible. BUT when I did the soap and water test - I couldn't find anything wrong with it. Hummm....

Kat
Purr-Sonalities Glass Art

KFraley51 · #25 2011-04-11, 1:57pm

My old regulator leaked propane around the threads where the gauges were attached. Did the soapy water test and found that was where it was leaking from. The regulator was only two years old.
Karen

Conrad Hoffman · #26 2011-04-11, 3:17pm

Regulator diaphragms can and will fail. Our welding gas supplier services regulators and if you have a nice one it's worth it. If you have a cheap one, it might be better to just replace it. In general "new to me" used regulators of unknown history should be given a check-up by the service people before use. Pressure gauges use metal bourdon tubes that flex to do their job, and sooner or later they also fail from metal fatigue or because the solder joints fail. They are generally not weatherproof. It doesn't do this stuff any good to be outdoors without a cover or bucket or something over it, and even then it needs to be inspected for leaks periodically.

cheng076 · #27 2011-04-12, 10:52am

If the connections to the flashback are not leaking then it is not the flashback. A flashback is completely sealed from end to end except where it connects to the regulator or hoses. It is possible to loosen the assembly of the flashback with heavy force but very unlikely.

The spray test works better than using a brush but be sure to soap up every connection from the torch all the way to and including the tank valve... even around your hole in the wall.

If the diaphram in your regulator is damaged then gas will vent out of the regulator; there should be a small vent hole in the regulator on the bell shaped piece under and holding the adjusting screw. Check there also.