Vermicilite or Fiber Blanket?

Scraphappy · #1 2007-10-20, 11:47am

He Everybody,
What is the difference between the vermiite and the fiber blanket?
I've seen people on tutorials use vermicilite but from school my teacher showed me to use the fiber blanket and that's what I have been using when I do my regular beads they come out fine but everyting I encase or when I clear pendant with color dots they have cracks on them ..
Any suggestions much appriciated ..
Thanks
Scrappy

SteveWright · #2 2007-10-20, 12:10pm

Vermiculite is an excellent product, as long as you use it as a potting soil amendment. Use it outdoors, with good ventilation, keep it dampened until mixed with soil.

I've seen where some people put it in a crock pot then poke hot beads into it to help them cool slowly.

Before you try that, you might read up on vermiculite. Start here:
http://www.epa.gov/asbestos/

I'm not that crazy about fiber blankets either. As soon as you can afford a annealing kiln, get one. Mark Wilson has a tutorial here on making one for a few bucks. Search for it, it is easy to do.

Steve

ArtcoInc · #3 2007-10-20, 1:59pm

Fiber blanket, vermiculite, and the Japanese annealing bubbles all do one thing: they provide an environment that allows your hot beads to cool down slower than if just left out on the table. This slower cooling helps to reduce stress and cracking, especially on smaller beads, and beads that do not have many layers of different colors. But, this is not a replacement for proper annealing.

Beads have been made for hundreds (or thousands) of years without computer controlled kilns, and many beads have survived all this time. Many artists today still use materials like vermiculite to control the cooling of their beads, and successfully too. You can try both vermiculite and fiber blanket, and see if either work for you.

But, in the long run, a kiln removes the variable of adequate/proper annealing, and frees you to better explore your glass.

Malcolm

ewdb · #4 2007-10-20, 2:14pm

i started last year with a fibre blanket and was so completely frustrated that most of my beads would develop cracks even though i had wrapped the blanket in several layers of heavy bbq foil to keep in the heat that i stopped.

this summer once i set up my studio and started torching again, i switched to vermiculite in a heated crockpot and it's been a huge improvement for me - haven't had a single bead break not even the big honking or sculpted ones.

i have a kiln now but it's huge and i don't get the chance to torch very often so i plan to batch anneal once i have a big enough pile...

Dale M. · #5 2007-10-20, 3:10pm

CRAP....... NOT AGAIN.... STOP THE HYSTERIA.........

The one mine that had an Asbestos problem has been closed over 15 years.........

http://www.vermiculite.org/hse.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/vermiculite/

Dale

KEW · #6 2007-10-20, 3:33pm

Before I got my kiln, I used vermiculite in a crock pot. I never got any pieces stuck to the glass and rarely had a cracked bead.

I hated the feel of the fiber blanket and I, too, had cracking with it.

tammydownunder · #7 2007-10-20, 4:28pm

I use the vermiculite and, occassionally, I have some cracked beads. Usually onces with encased dicroic glass. I don't bother with the crock pot to heat things up but I do make a few mandrels of small spacer beads and that warms up the vermiculite. Plus, it gets my creative juices flowing.

Tammy

Scraphappy · #8 2007-10-20, 5:29pm

Thanks evreybody i will try that the crock pot method and let you know how it comes just came off the torch and made five round beads with two colors they all cracked when I took them off the mandral....
I am defetnetly getting my bead kiln in April when I go to the glass Expo in Vegas they always have great deals...till then I just have to keep praying I get one good bead out of a batch..
Thanks
Scrappy

lldesigns · #9 2007-10-20, 5:34pm

When I first started lampworking I didn't have a kiln and used the fiber blankets. While it worked okay for small simple beads, I wasn't able to do any intricate or encased beads until I got a bead kiln. Encased beads in particular need to be put into the kiln with at least a slight glow or they crack. At least that's been my experience. I didn't dare put a bead into the fiber blanket when it was still glowing because it would flatten out and pick up the fiber imprint and be ruined. I had no luck at all with vermiculite so I can't help you there.

ewdb · #10 2007-10-20, 8:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lldesigns

When I first started lampworking I didn't have a kiln and used the fiber blankets. While it worked okay for small simple beads, I wasn't able to do any intricate or encased beads until I got a bead kiln. Encased beads in particular need to be put into the kiln with at least a slight glow or they crack. At least that's been my experience.

that pretty much sums up why i use a pre-heated crockpot. i've made several approx 2"x1", .5" thick focals, pressed, with silver wire, leaf and/or foil, reduction frits and encased. i've even made several large encased florals as well and they've survived - nicely smeared and/or butt ugly, but no cracks so far.

i put them into the vermiculite as soon as the surface seems to harden and they've been fine. i turn on the crockpot to high about 15mins before i start torching, ensure the beads are fully buried in the vermiculite and then when i'm done leave it on for about 30mins with the lid before turning it off. my cheapie crockpot ($10 at Walmart) has a ceramic insert which seems to hold the heat really well.

lampyMummy · #11 2007-10-21, 4:19am

I use vermiculite and don't use a crock pot. I've encased a few beads (not many) and i have made big holed beads and encased those (6mm mandrel) and nothing has ever cracked. As long as you don't put it in the vermi till it has cooled down enough to harden nothing will stick to it - if it DOES stick, next time, leave it out longer. If the bead cracks, put it in earlier next time. I have not had a problem with it and noone i know has either.

I would suggest wearing a respirator when you tip it into the bucket or crock pot, because fine particles in the air are never fun.
I would also suggest making sure it is DEEP, and that you put the beads relatively deep into it and not take them out till they are cool (i wait 30 minutes....sometimes more).

Heck - a $1 bucket and a $4 bag of vermi isn't expensive, and it's worth a shot to see how you feel about it.

Scraphappy · #12 2007-10-21, 10:46pm

Ok I'm going to try it...I have a porporrie crock pot it has a ceramic liner but no lid you guys think that will work or should a make a trip to Walmart and get the small crock pot with the lid?
Thanks you guys a whole bunch..
Scrappy

lampyMummy · #13 2007-10-21, 11:15pm

no need for a lid.... you'll be fine as is

ewdb · #14 2007-10-22, 2:59am

i don't think you'll need the lid - that's just me being extra cautious since sometimes i work on one bead for up to an hour...

try it and see. if you decide you want to be extra cautious, wrap some foil over the top when yr done. that should help to prolong the cool down process.

beadsoncypress · #15 2007-10-22, 3:31am

What ewdb sais is exactly right. I have maybe one bead crack every few batches, but usually when I forget to pre-warm the crockpot or I spend too much time checking out my new creationbefore I put it into the vermiculite. I change/add some every couple of months....then batch anneal to save on electricity and $$$.

Calypso · #16 2007-10-22, 6:27am

Arrowsprings has a fiber blanket that is not toxic.

Captured Light Glass · #17 2007-10-22, 5:10pm

Also, no peeking once in the blankie or the vermiculite as it causes thermal fractures. Are you using Lauscha for your clear by chance? If so, the latest batch seems to cause alot of cracking and I have switched to Diamond Clear.

lunamoonshadow · #18 2007-10-22, 7:58pm

I've used both (currently vermiculite 'cause I have no freakin' clue where my little blanket went when I moved & no place around here stocked them--and I wanted to torch one day--and I could buy the vermiculite & crock pot right THEN!) & they've both worked fine for me. I send my beads away for batch annealing (I figure if they survive the cooling, then the USPS out to be annealed, then the batch annealing, then the USPS trip back to me, they're sturdy enough to be used

because 2x through the postal service, once before & once after annealing should weed out anything with internal stress!! Oh & I usually dremel them out before they get annealled too--so that weeds out a lot of the weak ones too!)
~luna

Scraphappy · #19 2007-10-24, 8:08am

Wow...you guys are so awesome thanks so much....I just took my first Lampworking class (the studio reguirement before taking an intermediate class)they talked on the subject and we did round beads with dots not bad had a great time...I liked the teacher alot ...I had only been using 96 glass rods but she only uses raku and Efferetre wow what a difference .. the Efferetre colors seem so much tru and easier to work with..
Thanks
Juls

Waterman · #20 2007-10-24, 11:56am

I use the Vermiculite too. However, I always flame cool them in the back part of the flame first. I check to make sure that the center is barely to not glowing, then put it in. I have had great success and very few crack. I batch anneal also, so this helps out alot. My vermiculite is in a crock pot that I just leave on. It is always at a constant temperature consistantly. I'm coming and going all during the day, so I'm always trying to torch whenever the time permits. Hope this helps. Good luck.