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Safety -- Make sure you are safe! |
2015-05-04, 7:50pm
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Phill
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneVanderlaan
Hi I am a new bee and I am thinking of taking a fan and setting it backwards behind me. And having the window open in front of me. Yet then after reading everything about the propane tank needing to be outside I am thinking I will have to do this either on the front porch or in the garage with the door open. I make metal with a torch inside. Not sure what to do.
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Hi Anne. I posted a lengthy reply to someone wanting to set up in a garage the other day. Let me see if I can find it.
Here it is:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=277677
And here is a study done at a major university about glass lampworking and the hazards involved conducted by one of own R Simons who also shepherds the Beads of Courage program:
http://content.yudu.com/A1ot70/MTO18...y-today.com%2F
There are a few more posts I would like you to read in the safety threads marked by 5 gold stars to make them easier to find.
In one, Air In - Air Out, Dale M points to two rather longer discussion about ventilation and how to do it correctly in post number 5.
Here it is:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=265188
It would be nice if we could get away with a box fan and just squinting but the details of not doing it correctly really could ruin your day and those of the folks you love if we ignore them not to mention contaminate your house with heavy metals making it impossible to sell.
Yeah, it really is that important.
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2015-05-05, 7:52am
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Sam I Am
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Join Date: Nov 29, 2005
Location: Back in the Land of the piņata San Antonio TX
Posts: 876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneVanderlaan
Hi I am a new bee and I am thinking of taking a fan and setting it backwards behind me. And having the window open in front of me. Yet then after reading everything about the propane tank needing to be outside I am thinking I will have to do this either on the front porch or in the garage with the door open. I make metal with a torch inside. Not sure what to do.
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Anna I'm glad you are here and asking questions.
We can talk about ventilation at open torch this week - I hope you get a chance to look over all the great ideas and solution offered here.
Be sure to check out Phills links in the post above.
Sam
Thank you Speedslug you are awesome!
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Nina "Sam" Hibler
In the Torch's Flame I was Reborn. My Passion Ignited
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2015-06-30, 5:00am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 06, 2009
Location: South Hedland, Western Australia
Posts: 181
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Hi after sooooo long. I apologise for not reporting sooner. So this is how it is working currently.
i got a reducer in front of the torch aluminum taped to the fan. The other end is taped to about 5 meters of aluminum ducting. I open the window and pop out the bug screen. Throw out the propane quick connect tube and the ducting, walk outside hook it up arrange the ducting away from the window and fire away. I found that using the fans made it vent worse as per the incense test. It works.
Disadvantage is that all the flies and bugs come in. Living in Port Hedland, Western Australia we have a lot of bugs!!!!! And I hate them so I am going to find a board one day and see about going that route. House thefts are very common in Hedland so it will still have to be set up take down every time.
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2015-07-21, 10:21am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 29, 2010
Posts: 27
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hi I have probably entered this in the wrong area, but need to know this. I am working at a friends lampwork studio set up in a garage. We use the garage doors as ventilation, and if its windy and blowing the flame around, we close the door part way..( there are 2 garage doors open) but found last week after about 2 hour torch, felt a wee bit dizzy and nauseous.. maybe a bit headachey, but thought that it was because I hadn't eaten in awhile that day... ok so now I am worried that this may not be the safest thing? what am I gonna do? Go back and complain, not go back .. or just figure its in my head? thanks
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2015-07-21, 10:28am
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Phill
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
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Learn as much as you can about what is needed to make it safe and then teach your friend why it needs to be changed.
If they don't want to buy into the knowledge you can't make them but you can decide that the "wind is not right for working with torch gases and metal fumes today" and set the example for them.
Kind of like smoky bars or restaurants, you get to decide what is OK for you.
Be patient but persistent.
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2015-07-21, 10:38am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 29, 2010
Posts: 27
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thanks so much
I appreciate your quick response. I have torched other places that had very good ventilation systems but moved out of town. This is my only place in town that will rent torch time... I guess I had better leave torching for now.....especially if I wasn't feeling well last time...
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2015-07-21, 10:55am
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Phill
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
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Aye.
Seems to me that fumes sensitivity can be kind of like heat stroke; once your body starts to react to the fumes you can get stronger reactions from a lot less exposure.
If the place is "renting" torch time that could qualify as a public facility and then OSHA regulations could get them in serious legal trouble not to mention someone could sue for damages. Not Smart on their part.
I have known folks that torch on the back patio with two gas systems and also with just hotheads for years and do some really wonderful work. Wind and sun have to cooperate but it's doable.
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2015-07-21, 10:59am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 29, 2010
Posts: 27
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one more thing... I was wondering if you can get sick from this? I have seen your links to the university study, but I have to admit its kind of over my head... so would you suggest ( without saying anything to my friend as he is a lamp worker, stained glass artist and KNOWS about adequate ventilation etc.) I feel a bit intimidated to question his studio -garage.. maybe I should just cut the lamp work out for now until I can find a place with ventilation?
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2015-07-21, 11:00am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 29, 2010
Posts: 27
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sorry, I didn't see your reply before I replied...
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2015-07-21, 11:04am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 29, 2010
Posts: 27
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Ireally appreciate you sending such quick responses to my questions. I helps me out allot and glad to have someone like you around! Much thanks again
Tina
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2015-07-21, 11:20am
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Phill
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
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Some people have a tolerance for the fumes and some of us don't.
If the fumes themselves don't cause an illness they can make anything else you get, a common cold say, worse than it would have been other wise.
There are chemicals in the glass that give it the colors and the melting properties it has and these chemicals will boil out of the glass while in the flame in small amounts as a gas but will turn back into solids suspended in the air and fall as dust over everything and the dust then gets on you hands and then we wind up eating and inhaling what ever is still in the air.
The dizziness is probably from the burning of the gas alone. Lots of noxious stuff right there.
Will it be the cause of death? Probably not.
Could it make you sick enough to wish you were dead? If you do it often enough for long enough, yeah.
Is there any possibility you can persuade them to change they way they do things?
If not then you are better off putting together something for yourself somewhere else.
We have alot of really good information in the safety threads here about what is needed and it can be done for a lot less once you know exactly what the details are.
Good luck with this.
I know that some folks just will not listen and for those people I just let them do what they are going to do.
But if there is a chance you can teach them how to improve the place they might later figure out that have been living with headaches for years and not really known it.
Maybe you could frame it all as asking him to teach you how to setup for yourself. if the phase "close enough" or " you don't really have to pay that much attention" comes up then you know he won't be open to changing anything.
You could tell him that you always have a headache and feel dizzy after torching with him and that you just cant keep coming over if that doesn't change.
I don't know whether it will change his mind but at least you won't have to be confrontational about it.
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2015-07-21, 11:23am
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Phill
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
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I just happened to be perusing this thread at the same time you are.
Other wise this conversation would have taken weeks.
And I had a lot of people help me when I had questions so this is just passing it along as it should be.
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2015-07-21, 11:59am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 29, 2010
Posts: 27
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well then, it was my lucky day having you stumble on my post. I think you have some really good ideas there, and I intend to try telling him about feeling crummy after torching there. Once out and driving in fresh air on the way home I felt better. Its denial I guess, since there is no one here to rent torch time. But my health is much more important and so I will tell him how i'm feeling, and if nothing changes ( which I don't think it will) then I will have to give it up.. but so much thanks to you. You're awesome!
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2015-07-21, 4:06pm
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Phill
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
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A hot head and a one pound tank will probably cost two or three rentals and would be worth saving up for.
When I started I played in the middle of an open double wide garage door on a short bench with two sheets of 2 foot plexi glass with a hinge between them to try to keep the wind some what restrained.
The blue flame is hard to see but a single square foot of dark tile on the bench helped a little and I waited until the sun was not shining onto the table though.
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2015-07-22, 6:54am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jun 29, 2010
Posts: 27
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thanks Phill
You gave me a great idea.. I think I may be able to figure something out at home outside, with the tank and the plexi glass if things don't change at my friends place. Although I did mention that the fumes were annoying and bothersome, so he's looking into alternative solutions such as large fans behind so as to direct air over us and past as had been suggested..
much thanks again.....Tina
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